Ravager-Affinity "Replenished"?

[Crackdown]

Aaron's article today hints at a major ban-restricted coming March 1 to deal with the stranglehold Ravager Affinity has on the Standard format.

Well, he more than hints. It's a heads up, it's coming.

While I don't play in tournaments, it's depressing to have to run 12 copies of artifact hate for a simple Standard game at the local card shop.

 

[Killer Joe]

I hope they really don't do that. Do they realize how bad that makes them look? They should change the their door sign to say:

Research & Development (With "Take-Back" privliges)

OY!



no, no,


Double OY!

 

[Spiderman]

You beat me to it Crackdown. But why do you say "replenished"? That makes me think it's getting a second life or something. I'd say more "restricted" or "turned down".

KJ: Well, you're gonna get some people who think it looks bad and some people who think it looks good (that they can admit mistakes and move to correct them). It's gonna be a mixed bag.

 

[Killer Joe]

it's good to admit your mistakes. I read the article and he clearly makes a Mia Copa <sp?>.

But we have seen this before. Also, he mentioned that they wanted to give CoK time to see what impact it would have? Don't they know when they print/develop "Hate" cards. Even if CoK already went through the "approved" stage before Ravager really sunk it's claws into the environment they could've added a real hoser at nealy print time when ravager DID rear it's ugly head.

Maybe I'm wrong.


Maybe not.

 

[jorael]

Want to guess what they will ban?

If they really want get rid of broken affinity they could ban the artifact lands. The mana advantage they provide is unheard of except in Vintage. Their banning would crush affinity. Or they can ban arcbound ravager and disciple of the vault. That way they can't go uber aggro and be able to 'combo you out' for the last few life points. Affinity would still be strong though. Broodstar, shrapnel blast could make a come back in that case.

I placing my bets on the artifact lands.

 

[Mikeymike]

I hope they really don't do that. Do they realize how bad that makes them look? They should change the their door sign to say:

Research & Development (With "Take-Back" privliges)

KJ, while I understand your point, I personally feel it is a far greater crime to ignore your mistakes due to some flawed sense of infalibility rather than address something which needs to be addressed.

While admitance and accountability are important, fixing this issue is the key thing here. Let's see how they fix it, as some of their fixes in the past have created their own problems (like Dark Ritual in extended).

Regarding a "Hoser" the significant problem with a hoser is the key aspect of Raffinity - artifacts. You hose artifacts reliably and you hose Raffinity. However, you are also very likely to hose any other deck in its' wake due to Mirrodin's artifact theme. What's likely left is an environment dominated by Tooth decks.

 

[Spiderman]

KJ: We've seen it before but not often and I think last with Skullclamp. Not sure what was before that.

I think they wanted to see how CHK would develop to see if anyone could develop a "counter".

But I think jorael's right; I think they just want to weaken Affinity so that others can compete more (and which we talked about in another thread in General), so I think the Lands are gonna go.

 

[Crackdown]

I said "replenished" because they banned that card after the pro tour experience with Replenish decks.

With Replenish, the Urza enchantments were a nightmare. I'm expecting a similar move this time.

I'm probably not experienced enough to know what move would rebalance the Standard game. The artifact lands were meant as a tradeoff with creatures that had an affinity for artifacts. Greater susceptibility and a reward. I don't really want them to change the "affinity for" concept (which includes forests, plains, etc.), but I want Ravager's stranglehold ended.

Ban Ravager and Disciple of the Vault. That should do it.

 

[Spiderman]

Heh. This might be where a Restricted List in Standard would come in handy...

 

[TheCasualOblivion]

One thing that article does say is that if they kill Ravager in Standard, it still lives on in extended. Almost all non-Ravager decks in Standard right now would be best described as "anti-Ravager". I don't think killing it off is that bad of a thing.

 

[orgg]

Artifact Lands, Disciple of the Vault, and possibly Aether Vial in Extended. That's my suspicions.

 

[Killer Joe]

Yeah, that would be a good one to look at restricting. I do, in fact, like the idea of restricting rather than an all out banning.

They maybe could restrict:
The Art Lands
Arcbound Ravager
Skullclamp (bring it back as restricted)
Disciple of the Vault

And bring back:
Counterspell?

No!?
Oh well.

 

[TheCasualOblivion]

I say ban Disciple of the Vault, Ravager, and Cranial Plating.

 

[Ferret]

Heh heh. Here we go again. I reminds me of Blue Winter all over again. WotC admits that some of the cards they printed were a mistake because they were unable to see all of the possible combinations that could be made with their cards. It happens. I guess some players are going to have to learn to build new decks if they want to win...

-Ferret

"Or download new net.decks..."

 

[Istanbul]

What should they ban? Simple.

Artifact Lands.

But what about Cranial Plating?, you ask. Will Cranial Plating really be so ultra-strong when your lands don't feed into it? With 4-5 artifacts on the board, is it really ban-worthy? No.
But what about Ravager?, you ask. Again, with a diminished number of artifacts on the board, it's not what it once was. Good, yes. Broken, no.
Disciple, see also Ravager.
Vial is good, clean fun...and is simply not crazy-strong. Good, yes. Broken, no. If Vial is broken, so is Quicksilver Amulet.

No, the artifact lands are what make the other 'broken' cards so crazy-good in Affinity - remove them, and the deck is good, but not insane.

 

[Ferret]

Now Isty, you know that WotC would never do anything as logical as that. Back durring Blue Winter, WotC could have solved the stranglehold that all those solitaire decks had by banning one card: Mind Over Matter. This card was the one that made those Academy decks really powerful. They eventually did, but they had to to restrict/ban some of the other cards first. So, it will take a while.

-Ferret

"Banning of commons? I love it..."

 

[TheCasualOblivion]

I'm not really sold on banning the artifact lands. If its just Ravager they want to hose, there are other cards to ban. Surely the artifact lands are the most broken of the cards, but they also get used in a variety of other decks in a far less broken manner. Ban Ravager, Disciple of the Void, or Cranial Plating and you hurt Affinity alone.

 

[DÛke]

I personally don't want to see the artifact lands banned, though I agree banning them puts an end to Raffinity as we know it. I like the artifact lands for a couple of reasons, all which basically lead up to the one conclusion: that they can and in fact are being used nicely by other players, those who don't really care for Raffinity. I myself have just finished building my own affinity deck which does use the artifact lands, to nasty advantage, but I stay away from the typical cards used in the typical winning build of Raffinity.

The only deck out there that needs to be harassed is Raffinity. Banning artifact lands will hurt more decks than necessary. Banning Ravager, Disciple of the Void, and the Plating is the way to go, and is actually more logical.

That said, I think WotC will probably just ban the artifact lands and call it quits, of course saving the environment, but at the same time hurting it.

 

[Crackdown]

Banning the artifact lands would shut down Rafinnity, but it would also have an unwanted effect in the non-tournament world. Could you imagine what it would be like for the casual player to have his artifact lands banned? Banning sends the message that something is overpowered and it would be a public relations problem for Wizards to try to explain to the average non-tournament player why all artifact lands were banned.

I'm leaning now towards the following bannings:

Ravager
Cranial Plating
Aether Vial
Disciple of the Vault

Four cards banned, a new Standard gained.

 

[DÛke]

Ok, what's with everyone and Aether Vial? Am I missing something? It's such an average card I didn't even take a second look at it when I first saw it, and from all the different decks I've faced, not one did it really use the Vial in such a manner so as to worth banning it.

So it must be me. I'm missing something. Would someone shed some light on it?