Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by immortal grave walker, Nov 30, 2001.

  1. I cast a Thornscape Battlemage paying the red kicker. My opponent has a goblin legionnaire in play.I target the GL with battlemages kicker. Can my opponent sac the GL to kill the battlemage?
  2. Lotus Mox New Member

    Yes. He can do that.

    When the Battlemages comes into play (that means it is in play), its ability goes on the stack and you chose a target (Legionnaire).
    In response he can sac the Legionnaire to deal 2 dmg to the Battlemage
  3. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Heh. This reminds me of one of my favorite maneuvers, which is to Repulse a Desolation Angel in response to its CIP ability going on the stack. I always win when I do that. :)
  4. jcredberry Gochan Warlord

    Why can't you answer to the CIP ability of Voice of All??? I mean, my opponent plays a VoA naming Red... Why can't I play an Urza's Rage in answer to this CIP ability??? Is it because it already has come into play??? But why can you answer to the Battlemage CIP ability??? Is it because it chooses a target???

    BTW, the Desolation Angel example is a very bad one... I tap my lands in answer to the playing of the Angel, the Angel comes into play, blows all lands and the I use my mana to play the repulse... There is no way you can play the recoil in answer to the CIP ability...

  5. EricBess Active Member

    You are confusing CIP abilities. Voice of All does not have a CIP ability. Desolation Angel and the Battlemages do. Check the cards. A CIP ability is worded, "When <foo> comes into play, do <bar>".

    Voice of All is different, it is "As Voice of All comes into play..." Also, it does not gain protection from the color. It simply "has" protection from the chosen color. Things that happen "as" something comes into play are not triggered abilities and do not use the stack. Things that happen "when" something comes into play are triggered abilities and use the stack.

    And yes, you can cast a spell in response to a CIP ability. If you want to wait until all the lands are blown up, you can do that (just float the mana), but there is no reason you have to.
  6. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    "As ~ comes into play" and "When ~ comes into play" are two completey different things.

    Voice of All, Meddling Mage and lots of other cards say "As ~ comes into play." This means that as part of the process of putting the permanent into play, you do whatever the card says to do. It is not a triggered ability; it is an instruction.

    For example, you play Voice of All. It resolves, and as it is being put into play, you name a color...we'll say red. Voice of All comes into play with protection from red, just as if it had "protection from red" written right on the card. There is no time that Voice of All is in play that it does not have protection from red, so it is never a legal target for Urza's Rage.

    Now, take a card like Desolation Angel. It says, "When Desolation Angel comes into play, destroy all lands you control."

    "When" is a defined word in Magic that tells you that what follows is a triggered ability. Triggered abilities use the stack.

    So Desolation Angel comes into play, and a pseudospell goes on the stack that says "Destroy all lands you control." Now whoever played Desolation Angel gets priority, but probably doesn't want to do anything, so she passes.

    Now the opponent can play a Terminate, Repulse, or any other instant or activated ability that's legal at the time. In our example we'll say Repulse, targetting the Angel of course..

    So Repulse goes on the stack and bother players pass. Repulse resolves, and the Angel goes back to its owner's hand. Assuming that both players again pass priority, the CIP ability of Desolation Angel resolves, and destroys all the lands its controller controls (or all the lands everyone controls if she paid the kicker).

    That is the difference between "as" and "when" in Magic.
  7. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Shorter responses win the race. ;)
  8. rkoelsch Angel Boy

    It also helps if you don't have to go and look at the card text to be sure he is correct.
  9. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    That happens to me all the time... I'm looking at Crystalkeep for the card text or general rulings and someone writes the answer in the meantime :p
  10. fuzzy510 I Don't REALLY Exist

    Except that I look on eBay. That way I don't need to know the set. (And half of these I don't know what set......)
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It doesn't matter the set (usually). Crystalkeep has it all alphabetized, so you can just look up the card name WITH all the Oracle wordings.
  12. fuzzy510 I Don't REALLY Exist

    Guess what site's getting bookmarked?
  13. olwen New Member

    I usually use the spoiler generator at MTGnews. It's been very useful for me except that the casting cost of Odyssey cards are not correct.
  14. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    I also use the Ultimate Spoiler Generator. Ususally the little search box on the front page yields adequate results, though I sometime use the advanced search option when I need the current Oracle text on older cards.
  15. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, Crystalkeep also has the General text rulings so it's easier to flip back and forth (for me) if I need to look at a card or a ruling.

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