Wait, wait, wait, from the example above, it says the Clone is a copy of the *artifact*, not as the 5/5 artifact creature. So it was never a creature to begin with, unless it itself uses it's X ability afterwards.Oversoul said:If a Clone of a 5/5 Chimeric Staff doesn't stop being a 5/5 after the end of the turn
But it doesn't mention spell effect or abilities that set power and toughness, such as Mass Diminish.... so a copy created by Populate would seemingly have the original P/T of the token....The “copiable values” are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by “as . . . enters the battlefield” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics).
Bah, that's what I get for posting while tired. I was going to cite the Grinning Demon example. Of course the Clone copies all of the characteristics (including textbox) of Chimeric Staff, so that's a very different case.Wait, wait, wait, from the example above, it says the Clone is a copy of the *artifact*, not as the 5/5 artifact creature. So it was never a creature to begin with, unless it itself uses it's X ability afterwards.
Giant Growth applies modifiers to P/T. Mass Diminish sets base P/T. I think WotC deliberately added "base" to the rules text of cards like that a while back because the two effects function very differently, but it wasn't as intuitively obvious.I believe that is the ruling Spidey. If you copy a Werebear that has been Giant Growthed, your copy would be just a 2/2 Werebear.
So it appears a copy *would* retain the original token's P/T... still looking though...The new token doesn't copy whether the original token is tapped or untapped, whether it has any counters on it or Auras and Equipment attached to it, or any noncopy effects that have changed its power, toughness, color, and so on.
That case is comparable for our purposes. Mystery solved.However, the effect of that ability isn’t copiable. That is, if Gigantoplasm is a copy of a creature with base power and toughness 2/2 and you activate its ability making it a 4/4 creature, another creature that becomes a copy of Gigantoplasm will have base power and toughness 2/2.
So the original characteristics of a token are its original P/T.If the chosen creature is a token, Gigantoplasm copies the original characteristics of that token as stated by the effect that put the token onto the battlefield. Gigantoplasm isn’t a token, even if it’s copying one.