OnBC: NON-slide R/W

R

Rakamir

Guest
I seem to remember either pure control or R/W control being very good at the start of a season. Pure control to see what's out there, R/W because it's the color of destruction + the color of evil, the color of pain and the color that can technically handle anything. Control is fine, but sooner or later you should crush skull.

train offers up the folowing:

WHAT, NO SLIDE ?
by train

Creatures:
4 Silver Knight
3 Eternal Dragon
2 Exalted Angel
1 Jareth Leonine Titan
4 White Knight

Spells:
3 Lightning Rift
4 Starstorm
4 Akroma's Blessing
1 Akroma's Vengeance
4 Shocks
4 Wing Shards
2 Wipe Clean

Lands:
10 Plains
10 Mountain
2 Forgotten Cave
2 Secluded Steppe

Sideboard:
3 Disciple of Grace
4 Foothill guides
2 Akroma's Vengeance
2 Circle of Solace
2 Wipe Clean
2 Lay Waste

More First Strike and Protection... With a teeny tiney bit of utility...(sarcastically smiling...) ... train

Me: Explain the Wipe Cleans, please. Why not sanctifiers or Demystify? Isn't cycle 3 rather expensive? Why no Searing Flesh? Otherwise I like it.
 
T

train

Guest
Sanctifier has to live through the morph 2/2 phase... probably not likely... and if they know you're playing him - they'll just slide him out, to which his ability has no effect... else they flip your own Angel, they'll take the chance seeing how their angel and yours bounce against each other...

Demystify is worth the 1 mana to get rid of something quickly... but in cycling, I can get to what I need...

Wipe Clean - cycling 3 is never that expensive... We would all pay 3 mana every turn for card advantage... It also adds to the amount of damage my own rift will dish out... With the Shocks, Starstorms, and 2cc creatures with First strike, that can come in very handy... damage does have steps...

Wipe Clean also removes the item from the game... Not my fault if they forget to reset their deck... or sideboard... That's worth playing... since nothing else out there is permanently removing from the game enchantment-wise..., and the wishes will be gone...

Test it - You'll like it...

"Mikey Likes It!..."
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
How about replacing the Disciples of Grace in the board with Pacifisms? I understand Osyp wishes his Venice deck had Pacifisms in the side over Disciples.
 
T

train

Guest
Pacifisms aren't bad... but to stop what?... Why did he wish he'd had them?...

All I can picture is that with the rifts, starstorms, vengeance, shocs and shards, I should be able to handle anything attacking or blocking...

The disciples add offense against Black, that is, until they're noxious ghouled...

The deck played very strongly against a 1.5 meta filled with creatures...

and in OnBC - there isn't any other meta that I've seen...
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
I deck such as W/r control should be tier one in OnBC. It should beat mono-white control, and it should be tuned to beat Zombies and Fat Beasts especially. Goblins after boarding. Any ideas or playtest results? Sideboard subs would be sweet too. And if not this, then W/b, my point being white control needs to splash.
 
T

train

Guest
The only thing harming this deck - is the green beasts...

The best way to get rid of them - Shards...

Cliffs has trouble with the Silver knights(except green beasts), Dawn Elementals, and Any Protection from Blessings, Jareth etc...

As for any other troubles... It wins out over zombies - sometimes in 3... something I'm looking at vs. them is Sigil of the New dawn, or Aurification... Aurification seems to be the best against them...
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
Green Beasts? Have you considered Decrees of Annihilation (for Cliffs), and/or Temples of the False Gods (say, 2) to help an early Vengeance and/or pump up a Starstorm nicely? Beasts isn't really going to put the whomp-a** on you until turn 4, and although the damage curve is then steep, sure, you have to be able to beat that deck to impress me and others yours is better than going the W/b route with Revivals. Also, how do you beat Slide, again?
 
T

train

Guest
Also, how do you beat Slide, again?
Click to expand...
With:

4 Silver Knight
3 Eternal Dragon
2 Exalted Angel
1 Jareth Leonine Titan
3 Lightning Rift
4 Akroma's Blessing
1 Akroma's Vengeance
4 Shocks
2 Wipe Clean

Sideboard:
2 Akroma's Vengeance
2 Circle of Solace
2 Wipe Clean
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
Thanks.

For the moment, I like your deck better than any Teen Girl Squad or MWC deck I've seen. I'm running an 8-deck gauntlet with a friend, and intend to use yours vs Slide.

Sideboarding tips?

The gauntlet will be 3 rounds, top 4:

Round 1 will be ......

Zombies vs Dragons (done), Beasts vs Osyp Goblins (next), Osyp New Slide vs train R/W, and Jensen New G/W Veggies vs Zvi SuperElves. Anyone care to bet which deck will win, or which two will meet in the Finals?

I know I'm leaving out a lot of decks, like Burn, MWC, some RB build, W/b or BW Control, Wirewood Superman, StiflePhage, Biorhythm, Clerics, etc., but after each Finals, the 2 worst decks will say bye-bye, and I'll be open to suggestions as to which two new decks to replace them with when I re-run my mini-tourney again, and again, and agian, etc., right up until the Aug 2 New Orleans PTQ at Harrisburg, PA, whence I will next compete. Anyone playing in a N.O. PTQ before then?

Casual Players CAN Q !! Woo-hoo ! Power to us Casuals !!
 
T

train

Guest
Osyp New Slide vs train R/W
Click to expand...
Since this is the first match-up...

Here's the skinny vs. slide...

Creatures:
4 Silver Knight - perfect to get past the lightning rift - they have to slide them out to stop them from causing trouble... fast drop first strike
3 Eternal Dragon - cycle, then if they try to use slide on their angel - you can shock it... make sure stack is correctly used...
2 Exalted Angel - bounce vs. other angels... if they cycle to rift - you can also rift... if they do - you can blessing your angel protecting it...
1 Jareth Leonine Titan - protection...
4 White Knight - fast drop - first strike - dies to rift...

Spells:
3 Lightning Rift - nice vs. slide...
4 Starstorm - only useful later vs. slide...
4 Akroma's Blessing - you can stop them from shooting/blocking your creatures... and help your angels live through starstorm
1 Akroma's Vengeance - kill all...
4 Shocks - get the angels after they're put on the table face down...
4 Wing Shards - nice
2 Wipe Clean - nice

Lands:
10 Plains
10 Mountain
2 Forgotten Cave
2 Secluded Steppe

Sideboard:
3 Disciple of Grace
4 Foothill guides
2 Akroma's Vengeance - needed vs. opposing slide... dragons don't mind... they come back...
2 Circle of Solace - choose angels or dragons... slide's only hope against this since it's not expected, and you're not enchantment heavy... They may demystify, but they'll probably use those on your rifts...
2 Wipe Clean - needed vs. slide...
2 Lay Waste


*** - The only modification you may want to make with the deck is a 4th Lightning Rift... taking out an Akroma's blessing...

This allows you multiple shots at their angel if they slide...

According to priority, if they cycle - their ability stacks, and then yours... so the angel will die before sliding out...
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
I compared your deck with another “out there” by a known player/writer’s first-pass (obviously) MWC deck, and all questions of mana count and 4 Temples of the False Card aside, here are the differences between his and yours that I noted:

To change his into yours:

-2 Pacifism -3 Renewed Faith -3 Akroma’s Vengeance
-4 Dawn Elemental - 2 Exalted Angel -1 Eternal Dragon -2 Akroma, Wrath Angel -3 Decree of Justice (which I consider a “critter,” even though it’s not, technically speaking. And neither was Call of the Herd. Right.), - some land

+1 Jareth, Leonine Blocker +4 White Knight
+3 Lightning Rift +4 Starstorm +4 Akroma’s Blessing +4 Shock +2 Wipe Clean

1) To make the change to yours we’re losing 12 creatures, including 7 defensive ones, and adding 5 creatures, all defensive, for a net critter loss of 7. Beware Call to the Grave, be thankful for Wipe Clean.

2) We lose 5 spells, all anti-critter (if you consider Renewed Faith anti-critter), but gain 17 spells, 15 of which are anti-critter, for a net gain of 12, or 10 anti-critter. Nice. Like you said, the meta is critter.

3) We lose 5 life gaining cards.

4) We gain 2 anti-enchantment cards.

Now, your sideboard:

3 Disciple of Grace
- I still say Pacifism. Think : Soulless One, or Silvos. Think Soulless One with a Cover of Darkness in play. But I know, it cycles, and you like that.
4 Foothill Guides. Nice. With so many main deck ways to kill critters, it’s much more powerful.
2 Aka Vengeance
- But of course. Pardon my French.
2 Circle of Solace.
- Not sure, actually.
2 Wipe Clean
- OK
2 Lay Wastes
- I know, it cycles. But for what? Cliffs? 2-color color-screwed decks? How about Uncontrolled Infestation? It doesn’t cycle, but it’s cheaper. Sure, he turns the Cliffs once, but that’s all, and he may have to turn it for mana. That’ll make him think.

How about Form of the Dragon? You can take care of the Thoughtbounds, and …. Um, never mind, it has RRR in the cost.
:)
 
T

train

Guest
I'm happy with the comparison...

How does it do vs. Osyp's deck?...:)
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
I don't know. haven't tested it yet. Really, it's Peppermint's deck. Since I know what an imp Osyp is, I seriously believe them to be one and the same. Who knows? Who cares. Damn gators! lol

Here's the deck, though. Whom do you think has the advantage first game, and how would you sideboard, for each, and whom would have the advantage games 2 and 3 thereby? If you have the time (I'm time-poor, actually), think about who would have the advantage going first.

PEPPERSLIDE

4 Spark Spray
4 Akroma’s Blessing
4 Lightning Rift
4 Astral Slide
4 Starstorm
3 Wing Shards
3 Akroma’s Vengeance

4 Exalted Angel
3 Eternal Dragon

4 Forgotten Cave
4 Secluded Steppe
10 Mountains
9 Plains

SB:

4 Silver Knight
4 Avarax
2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Wing Shards
1 Akroma’s Vengeance
3 Slice and Dice

http://www.togit.com/reports/PVC_May03Week5.html

Zvi doesn't like Avaraxs. Zvi doesn't like a lot of things, tho. I never thought I would say this, but I think Jarrod Bright knows more about OnBC than Zvi. The best reason for this, I'm guessing, is that Zvi is spreading his time around on too many different formats, and Jarrod is focusing on OnBC only, playtesting with a member of Australia's National Team. Zvi's SuperElves seems his best creation so far, even if it lacks Timberwatch Elf. Good luck getting your hands on a Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, let alone four. And the same goes for Eternal Dragon, too. No grass is growing under either card, believe me. They sprout wings, but never land, so to speak.
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
Oh, my. Even though I got a game in in which train's deck just toyed with Slide before utterly defeating it, the Slide player made enough mistakes that a do-over is called for. And you haven't sent me specific subs yet, anyway, train. Perhaps what follows will help, and think what Slide will bring in against you, please.

The big mistake Slide made was to try to get a face-down Angel into play by Sliding it with train's deck having an untapped mana and a Rift out. Slide also had an Eternal Dragon in the gy that he forgot about. Not good. Osyp wouldn't have made those mistakes.

Train's deck only had one Rift drawn/in play all game. Slide drew no Rifts, but got two Slides down. Train's got an Exalted into play, which didn't do damage number one to Slide as it had no choice but to keep sliding it out, taking two from train's Rift each time.

Last play: With 7 mana open, R/W cycles a Starstorm, a Blessing, and shocks for the last six damage. Slide never had more than 6 mana, train's, 7, and Slide went first. train's got out a Silver Knight, which is in fact, quite Slideable. Take 2. In fact, I think all 20 damage came from the one Rift. :)

Slide did in fact have Akroma's Vengeances in hand, but didn't cast them lest they lose their Slides. Another mistake, playing the 2nd Slide. The player said he didn't Vengeance lest train's bring its own Dragon in to fly over for the win, and I guess I can see that. I see that whatever Slide does, train's has an answer. Nice goin', dude. :)

Who needs Stabilizer? :D :D
 
T

train

Guest
Glad it did well... but it can probably do a little better...

Sideboard:
3 Disciple of Grace
4 Foothill guides
2 Akroma's Vengeance - needed vs. opposing slide... dragons don't mind... they come back...
2 Circle of Solace - choose angels or dragons... slide's only hope against this since it's not expected, and you're not enchantment heavy... They may demystify, but they'll probably use those on your rifts...
2 Wipe Clean - needed vs. slide...
2 Lay Waste


If you feel the disciples are of no use... 3 demystify might help...
Don't forget - you may want to add a rift to the deck for 4, and then pull out 1 akroma's blessing...

Good Luck!...:D ;) :cool:
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
I already made the 4th blessing out fourth rift in sub. Thanks.

Here are my initial thoughts on subs:

train: You really want every card in your deck main 2nd game, save one: White Knight, and possibly Jareth, but ... he may bring in Avarax so ....

train: -4 White Knight
+2 Circle of Solace +2 Wipe Clean

I'd bring in the 2 Vengeances too, but what to take out?

Osyp Slide:

-4 Astral Slide -4 Lightning Rift -4 Spark Spray
+4 Silver Knight +4 Avarax +2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath +1 Akroma's Vengeance +1 Wing Shards

I should mention Wing Shards worked well for both decks. You keep Silver Knight IN CASE they don't take Rift out.

Well, since we started a new page, let's re-list ur deck:
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
Creatures:
4 Silver Knight - perfect to get past the lightning rift - they have to slide them out to stop them from causing trouble... fast drop first strike
3 Eternal Dragon - cycle, then if they try to use slide on their angel - you can shock it... make sure stack is correctly used...
2 Exalted Angel - bounce vs. other angels... if they cycle to rift - you can also rift... if they do - you can blessing your angel protecting it...
1 Jareth Leonine Titan - protection...
4 White Knight - fast drop - first strike - dies to rift...

Spells:
4 Lightning Rift - nice vs. slide...
4 Starstorm - only useful later vs. slide...
3 Akroma's Blessing - you can stop them from shooting/blocking your creatures... and help your angels live through starstorm
1 Akroma's Vengeance - kill all...
4 Shocks - get the angels after they're put on the table face down...
4 Wing Shards - nice
2 Wipe Clean - nice

Lands:
10 Plains
10 Mountain
2 Forgotten Cave
2 Secluded Steppe

Sideboard:
3 Disciple of Grace
4 Foothill guides
2 Akroma's Vengeance - needed vs. opposing slide... dragons don't mind... they come back...
2 Circle of Solace - choose angels or dragons... slide's only hope against this since it's not expected, and you're not enchantment heavy... They may demystify, but they'll probably use those on your rifts...
2 Wipe Clean - needed vs. slide...
2 Lay Waste
 
T

train

Guest
If he's taking out the slides and rifts... why would you put in the wipe cleans... the cycling/desenchant doesn't help anymore...

This would be the point where I see the pacifisms as useful...

I've actually even thought of splashing black... but pulling that off isn't so easy...

The black would give you what you need in re-anime capability... or Call...

And it would be funny to see call come in at a time like this...

All I can say is - hope your rifts do a lot of damage... which they still can...

You can also leave your white knights in and against his silver knights - use the blessings...

There's a lot of plays to make... they just have to be made...

Thsi is also where I had previously mentioned Sigil of new dawn...
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
You keep the wipe cleans in because you do NOT know if he's taking out all eight enchantments.... cycle for 3 still helps your Rift.
Also, he might be splashing black for Call to the Grave himself, but no, I wouldn't do that (I had that idea myself considering how awesome it would be in your deck ... or go BW Control?).

I basically stay away from three colors as much as possibnle .... just beautiful on paper, the gain in power isn't usually worth the loss of consistancy via mana screw, especially if there is one popular good monodeck in the format, and this one has three.

(No, not Soldiers, .... Elves.)
 
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