OnBC: Control White

R

Rakamir

Guest
Here's a deck in need of a good tune, which I've gotten btw and can't share as it's someone else's technology. Actually though, this tain't far off, and is my original first-pass build which took all of about 2-1/2 minutes to design. Basically, a person who hates losing to black decks and red decks should try this, and feel free to get back. Fire away (I'm ducking for cover)!:D

FLYING FIRST-STRIKING EVIL WHITE CONTROL, with BEATDOWN

Onslaught Block Constructed

4 Silver Knight (WW)
4 White Knight (WW)
4 Pacifism (W1)
4 Wipe Clean (W1, or 3 cycled)
4 Wing Shards (WW1, the Perfect Storm)
4 Ageless Sentinels (W3 for 4/4 Flying Wall that can attack if it blocks once)
4 Dawn Elemental (WWWW for a 3/3 Flyer that can’t take damage)
4 Exalted Angel (WW4)
2 Akroma’s Vengeance (WW4)
2 Akroma, Angel of Flying Beatstick (WWW5)
4 Secluded Steppe
20 Plains
Sideboard:
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
2 Akroma’s Vengeance
4 Foothill Guide
4 Demystify
4 Windborn Muse

Rakamir

P.S. You'd be surprised in this block how often two Aggro decks get to 8 lands on the table before game's end, cuz creatures can block. Sometimes.
 
L

Lotus Mox

Guest
You definitely need Eternal Dragon there, mainly vs. other control decks. (Ageless Sentinels is not so great IMO).
Oblation deals with a lot of problems you will face, although it's generally not really optimal.
I'd also run 4 Vengeance.

BTW, What is your plan against a BW control deck*, which plays a Cabal Interrogator 2nd turn and Akroma's Vengeance 6th turn? :)

*basically like a mono white control deck, w/ Smother, Cabal Interrogator, Bane of the Living and Visara replacing Dawn Elementals and some Knights and something else :).

edit: Dragon Scales are awesome in some matchups :)
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
- Wrath Angels could be Eternal Dragons ... not sure yet , both are sweet
- Oblation was suggested ... has multiple uses.
- 4 Vengeances? Yup.
-Ageless Sentinels? 4cc for 4/4 flying wall is "efficient." Could be better stuff, I guess.
- I'm working on a BW Control deck, Utility Clerics. Has an answer for everything, on paper anyway. Haven't thought about Interrogator. It's not in my deck. Yet.
I'm more worried about Hasty red Goblin decks and Unholy-Strength-for-everyone Zombie decks.
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
I had a very nice real-life conversation with a fellow player re this deck who has been testing a version vs the field and has been doing very well with it. Naturally, Goblin players hate it; the deck needn't even board for Goblins.

Cards he has that I haven't included are Jareth, Leonine Titan (one, main); Daru Sanctifier (board), and Circle of Solace (board). Oblations are also in the board, to handle stuff nothing else in White will, such as Visaras and Graveborn Muses. Pacifism on these cards is rather useless, eh?

He also mains 3 Eternal Dragons. We want to use Decree of Justice too, the one card I probably starred at the longest in Scourge and would very much like to break, but there's simply no room we can find. Ageless Sentinels and Wipe Cleans seem to suffer from the same "lack of room" disease. White Knights jump from main to board, as opposed to John Friggin Rizzo who jumped TO Maine and is now bored (is Crossroads the same as CMU? Don't know. Maybe it's better.)

Whatever, control decks in general tend to be the last designed, often right up to the last minute, as better knowledge of the metagame surfaces and is revealed. Boards in particular go through warp speed changes.

Your BW Control deck idea looks very interesting, Lotus Mox. Care to start a thread about it and provide a rudimentary listing? Smother is a decent enough card, I suppose. Can kill a Gobbo Warchief but not an Undead one. Not too cool vs Beasts, either, but we'll see. It's June now and times a wastin'. The Block PTQ season will be here sooner than we think.

I'd thank the "genius" at WotC who decided the second most interesting Constructed format (after Extended post Dual Lands banning) be held in THE VACATION MONTH of August when the vast majority of Westerners are away and might miss their PTQ or Qs, but that would be sarcastic, so I won't.

Good luck, everyone.
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
http://www.togit.com/reports/WW_CCJune03Week1.html

Teen Girl Squad

4 Silver Knight
4 Exalted Angel
4 Dawn Elemental
3 Eternal Dragon
2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Jareth, Leonine Titan
4 Wing Shards
4 Pacifism
4 Akroma’s Vengeance
4 Renewed Faith
4 Secluded Steppe
22 Plains

SB:

3 Demystify
2 Daru Sanctifier
4 White Knight
3 Circle of Solace
3 Oblation
 
T

train

Guest
This is a nice deck... but I'd have to suggest a demystify or 2 in the sideboard...
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
"On the other hand, white definitely got some more playable non-cycling cards, so the control deck that develops in the new environment might not rely exclusively on the Rift/Slide/cycling interaction. Cards like Silver Knight, Eternal Dragon, perhaps Decree of Justice and Dawn Elemental might add up to a board control deck that relies on hard-to-remove creatures and Akroma's Vengeance. Sadly, any white-based control deck will have a hard time removing creatures that don't attack for some reason (like Kilnmouth Dragon, Canopy Crawler, or Wirewood Channeler), particularly if they regenerate. It would be very strong against Goblins, so a mono-white version will probably only fit in the metagame if Goblins are all over the place. Since I am contractually obligated to play Goblins, I would appreciate it if you didn't play mono-white." ... Mons Johnson, from here:

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=5131

And the 'Chiefs and Visara, too.

So, eh, what then? Splash Black for Lingering Death? I'm open to ideas.
 
T

train

Guest
Don't ask... I was probably on something... and only lord knows what?!...:rolleyes:

Anyhow - how does the deck test?...
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
You can see the deck kicks Goblins' butt, that it's good against Zombies and decent vs Beasts and most other Aggro decks.

Vs. Slide? Who knows? Pacifism is pretty dead against any deck sporting Astral Slide, though Wing Shards is cool even if it's just spot removal.

Ack! I just realized that black splash for L. Death isn't warranted. Oblation is pretty key in white for getting rid of Enchantment critters, or at least delaying your seeing the card again.
 
N

NorrYtt

Guest
Here's my current build...subject to change without notice (to include Oblation)

Spells (36)
4 Silver Knight
4 White Knight
4 Dawn Elemental
4 Exalted Angel
3 Eternal Dragon
2 Jareth, Leonine Titan
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath

4 Pacifism
4 Wing Shards
4 Akroma’s Vengeance

2 Dragon Scales

Land (24)
4 Secluded Steppe
20 Plains


Dragon Scales is an absolute beating. It makes an early Knight huge, comes back on Angel, Jareth, Dragon, or Akroma, and completely destroys your opponent's ability to race since they have to fight through a 6/7 Eternal Dragon that doesn't tap to attack as well as Wing Shards.
 
T

train

Guest
That's a nice build... I can only think of something like Shared Triumph, Demystify, or Circle of Solace to help out... But the deck looks solid as is...
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
Abe Sargent has a decent deck up at his Star City article June 20th, but more importantly, he does a nice job of analyzing nearly each and every playable and nearly-playable White card in block. He forgets Foothill Guide, and wait till you see what The Ferrett says of Nova Cleric. First the link, then the deck:

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=5205

MWC
by Abe Sargent <== notes this is first pass
4 Silver Knight
4 White Knight
4 Whipcorder
3 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Exalted Angel
3 Dawn Elemental
1 Jareth, Leonine Titan
4 Wing Shards
1 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Akroma's Blessing
2 Oblation
3 Windborn Muse
3 Eternal Dragon
4 Secluded Steppe
1 Temple of the False God (You have got to be kidding me - in a seventeen-land deck? Do you have some sort of guaranteed-to-live clause on your Wayfarers? - The Ferrett)
17 Plains
 
T

train

Guest
This deck appears to mirror my R/W deck for a lot of the cards, and numbers of them in the deck....

That's what intrigues me most...

And I was right about the Nova Cleric - according to Abe...
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
It's too land shy, IMO. I'd lose the Temple for a Plains (Temple is too janky for me - and I like Jank! - might be better in Dragons or G/W Veggies), and the Wayfarers and and the 4th White Knight, and bring in more Plains, a 4th Exalted Angel, and a 4th Dawn Elemental. I'm not sure if the lone Jareth is better off being boarded, but I see his point re maindecking at least one, so it stays for now.

In the board I'd put the 4th White Knight, the 3rd Oblation, 3 Circles of Solace, Pacifisms, Renewed Faiths for Goblins/Sligh, and curiously, Astral Slide for Slide. Or Mobilization, possibly. Or Demystifys. Or Wipe Cleans. Not sure, not worried yet.

Or possibly just play train's W/r.

The point is that all these decks, being Control, will be the last ones designed, and we're all better off for now IMO testing the following Aggro and Aggro/Control Decks against each other until we're bored to tears, taking notes on their weak points, before tighenting up the control decks:

Sligh featuring Sulfuric Vortex
Goblins <== more fat, less burn
Zombies
Beasts
New Slide

If time is a problem, test just Beasts, Zombies and New Slide.

If time is something you have a lot of, try Dragons with Decrees of Annihilation, and GW Veggies too. I'm afraid though that the increased speed of the Chiefs just hit Explosive Vegetation decks upside the head, hard.

If you have a LOT of time, like a college Communications major, try Elves and Superman and Zombie/Bidding, too.

Patriarch's Bidding is NOT a card a deck like this would like to see.
:D
 
T

train

Guest
I took on the bidding possibility with the U/W question asked in another thread...

As for time on their hands... I don't know if as many people reading this are exactly that interested - I know a few are... but this is the Casual players alliance for a reason...

The reason I'm so interested is that I play tourneys if possible, but judge a lot of them, and watch this stuff hit the table all the time...;) :cool:
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
If people think they can wait a week or so before this Block season to get into these decks they will quickly find themselves behind the eight-ball. WotC has balanced the colors (save blue) in this format better than ever. Testing is required now, sooner, more than ever before. There are still a ton of builds out there for each archetype, and netdecking won't help as much as it has previously. There are REASONS that Call to the Grave and Krosan Tusker aren't that good in block now, etc., and if people just blindly put those cards into their decks, or just play Goblins because they did so well at Venice, well ... I hope I face them. :)
 
T

train

Guest
Tusker is a 2 card advantage for 3 mana... it may seem slow, but that can really hurt if done in beast/bidding...

Call is only bad in mirror matches on zombies... it takes mana to get out - but you should have blockers out before it hits the table... It can get rid of exalteds, and well... everything not zombies...
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
Call is terrible, but you have to play it to see what I mean. Before you do, consider:
Goblins will beat you before it becomes useful or more than a pest.
Slide will handle it (Santifier, Demystify, etc.)
Beasts will handle it, or ignore it (pest again. Naturalize, critter per turn).
Control White will handle it (Oblation, Wipe Clean, etc.)
It's an overrated card. Trust me, or don't trust me, playtest and find out for yourself. And don't get me started on how bad Graveborn Muse is. We have a cool Muse, and her name is: Windborn.

Did I say Tusker? I meant Primoc. Heh.
 
T

train

Guest
I still see call as decent... however I'm not running zombies so I don't have any substance under my claim...

I do know that a festering goblin, and an infest or 2 should clear the board of goblins.. and if those aren't being run in a mono-black deck in this environment - especially for their cost... that's just wrong...
 
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