Ogre Enforcer

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Oversoul, Apr 6, 2017.

  1. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I was reminiscing about Ogre Enforcer in my old Pestilence deck. The rules were different back then (and the Oracle text has undergone a few revisions, it seems), but everyone seemed to think that it worked at the time. Until just now, I was under the impression that Ogre Enforcer would normally survive any number of Pestilence activations (each one being a different source), both back in Fifth Edition rules as well as in today's rules.

    Looking at the sparse discussion of the card on the internet, I'm seeing contradictory answers on the subject. Some people claim that if a single Pestilence is activated four times, that counts as four damage from one source and kills Ogre Enforcer. Other people claim that each Pestilence activation is a separate source, and therefore Ogre Enforcer does not die even after taking four damage from four different activations of Pestilence. I don't know who to believe!

    For a while, Ogre Enforcer's Oracle text referred to preventing the damage if it wasn't enough to kill it, which obviously means that it would survive under Pestilence. But the new wording? I don't know. Anyone more rules-savvy able to tackle this one?
  2. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Hm, despite how confident some of the people seemed to be who asserted that Ogre Enforcer would die when I scrounged around on Google results, I'm definitely still doubting them. A more famous interaction is between Pestilence and Circle of Protection: Black. Each Pestilence activation is treated as a separate source there. One cannot simply pay a single mana to prevent all of the damage from Pestilence in a turn. And that one I've seen from official sources and also noted by judges. If it's true for CoP: Black, it seems like it would be true for Ogre Enforcer as well. But maybe I'm missing something...
  3. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    On further reflection, the CoP: Black interaction would be different because the card's rules text refers to "the next time" and each activation of Pestilence is a separate instance of damage or "time" but presumably they all come from the same source. But if Ogre Enforcer only cares about damage per source and not about "time" then it seems that four Pestilence activations would now kill it. At least, that's how I'm reading it. Didn't find anything in the comprehensive rules to contradict that assessment. Too bad. Poor Ogre Enforcer. Annoyingly, even if this is right, the creature was effectively immune to Pestilence for a long time, as my digging for discussion on the card kept turning up old Oracle texts that referred to preventing damage. At some point, this was changed to the current version.

    That does leave me curious as to whether it worked back when I originally tried to use it. Most of Nick's deck's lifetime was in the early 00's and presumably after a post-Sixth erratum that had it preventing damage anyway (I do seem to remember seeing such an Oracle text back then). But my original usage might have been under Fifth Edition rules, before that erratum. Google Groups has an archive of an old Usenet discussion, but the people there were arguing over how to interpret the card, and there didn't seem to be a resolution...
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Checking the card in Gatherer and then clicking on Discussions bring up this as the last "popular comment"

    Where Pyrohemia seems to work the same as Pestilence. I don't know if the poster is a judge but makes sense to me.
  5. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Yeah, that was one of the ones I saw as well. I searched the comprehensive rules for instance of the word "source" to see if there was any more detail, and what I saw made me suspect that it's the correct answer now, although it apparently was not in the past.

    I don't know if this is an approximate return to original functionality or not, but it is a significant nerf relative to the Oracle text it had for many years.

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