Not original, but I'm going to try it anyways

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Nightstalkers, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Okay, if I have a Howling Mine out and a Sylvan Library in play, do I draw a card for the Mine, then draw 2 for the Library and choose among those three cards I have drawn for 2 to put on top of my library again, then draw my card for the turn?
  2. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    "If you are going to draw cards due to triggered abilities during your draw step, your regular draw resolves first, but you can choose to order the Sylvan Library before or after any other draws (such as from Howling Mine). For example, if you have two Howling Mines, you must do your regular draw first, but then you could do the Library (draw 2 and put 2 back), then your 2 other draws. Or you can do your 2 draws, then the Library (which lets you put back any 2 of the 5 cards you drew, including your regular draw). Or you can do some of the draws before and some after the library. [D'Angelo 2002/04/20]"
  3. kriz_riktr Member

    While this ruling is not incorrect, it is a bit outdated. The 'regular' draw a turn at the beginning of the draw step is now a special game action. It does not use the stack and is the first thing that happens in the draw step. This will happen before any draw step triggered abilities even go on the stack. So in theory what you draw may influence how to stack these triggered abilities.
  4. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    wow, thx.

    I'm trying to throw in some sort of a manipulation for my drawing... I hate it when i get lands in the middle of the game when I don't need them, or in the beginning when I'm set.
  5. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    There's always Abundance...
  6. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Thats a well and good card... but the reason why I like the Sylvan Library (Sylvan learning center? Just popped into mind) opposed to Abundance is:

    1.) You are allowing your opponent to see the cards off your deck and thusly revealing whatever side "strategies" you may have in store for them at the time.

    2.) You can either get a land, or a non land from the top of your library, there is no real good way to choose what you are getting.

    3.) You can pay 4 life a piece to get 2 extra drawed cards... or keep them on top of your library for future use.

    4.) I'm just typing for the fun of it.
  7. train The Wildcard!!!...

    The library is good for the option to get the cards, otherwise you could use mirri's guile and a sifter...;)
  8. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Speaking of timesifter... wouldn't it be nice to try building one of those "think big" decks around it?

    Meh, nothing like huge 6-8 costing creatures gettin' out.
  9. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Why not use both?
  10. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Mainly because of those points, Oversoul. In many ways, Magic is a game of war, using the principles of war itself. A good strategist would not tip their hand and allow their opponent to see what is coming their way, nor allow them to think that they would be gaining an advantage in any way unless it is for the strategists benefit.

    Sure I can play Abundance in the deck to mill my own library, but with the Sylvan Learning Center... I mean the Sylvan Library, I could build up a stack to mill through a count of 2+ cards and dump them onto the bottom of my deck...

    But still, I'm a mana curve junky and plopping a 4 casting cost card would screw up a decks mojo... I still cant' really get anythign to work other than speed right now anyways.
  11. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Letting my opponents see what I'm drawing is not a problem when I have Sylvan Library out, since card advantage is nice, and giving away WHAT I'm drawing (technically not drawing with Abundance, but in essence the same) is well worth being able to draw more cards, in my experience...

    What are you dumping onto the bottom of you deck? I don't get that part?
  12. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Basically if you choose for a land or something instead of a non land with the abundance, you mill your deck till you find either type of card.

    Okay, with my basic Library/Mine combo, I'd have at least one library, and one mine out. So how I would set it up as is follows:

    Normal Draw, Library, mine (abundance)

    Library would kick in and let me go ahead and draw 2 extra cards, then choose between my normal draw and the extra 2 I drew from my library. If I had a combination of land and spell, or just had a couple lands/spells, I'd put them in whatever order I wanted to draw down to get rid of that extra card. Thusly, I am ditching that crap card I don't want any part of and freeing up that slot in my little draw predictor.
  13. Oversoul The Tentacled One

  14. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Howling Mine
  15. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Abundance does cost a bit, but still...

    Sylvan Library + Abundance = You (and only you) draw an extra two cards for a total of three cards a turn, and get to pick whether those draws (along with your other draws, if wanted) are land or nonland. Your opponent will see them though...

    Sylvan Library + Howling Mine = You draw four cards each turn, but you have to put half of them back on top of your library, unless you want to pay 4 life to keep three (or 8 life to keep all four cards). Your opponent also gets to draw an extra card from Howling Mine...

    I'd rather go with Abundance. Howling Mine helps the opponent just as much as it helps you really...

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