New good creatures list thread...

[Oversoul]

I've trimmed the original lists down a lot. Some of the colors were harder to cut, because they have a large concentration of good creatures. I was going for the top 25 in each category, and I'm now close to reaching that. I have likely made a few mistakes here and there, cutting something that maybe should have remained. Let me know if something looks like it's missing. Also I need suggestions on what to cut in order to get these suckers down to 25 each.

Academy Rector
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Auratog
Auriok Salvagers
Blinding Angel
Eternal Dragon
Exalted Angel
False Prophet
Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
Mageta the Lion
Monk Realist
Mother of Runes
Order of Leitbur
Order of the White Shield
Peacekeeper
Radiant's Dragoons
Savannah Lions
Serra Angel
Serra Avatar
Silver Knight
Soltari Priest
Soul Warden
Voice of All
Weathered Wayfarer
White Knight

Arcanis the Omnipotent
Clone
Cloud of Faeries
Flying Men
Gilded Drake
Man-o'-War
Merfolk Looter
Morphling
Old Man of the Sea
Ophidian
Palinchron
Rainbow Efreet
Raven Guild Master
River Merfolk
Rootwater Thief
Scalpelexis
Serendib Efreet
Spiketail Hatchling
Temporal Adept
Thieving Magpie
Tradewind Rider
Trinket Mage
Volrath's Shapeshifter
Waterfront Bouncer
Wonder

Avatar of Woe
Black Knight
Carnophage
Crypt Rats
Disciple of the Vault
Flesh Reaver
Hidden Horror
Hypnotic Specter
Juzam Djinn
Kjeldoran Dead
Knight of Stromgald
Nantuko Husk
Nantuko Shade
Nekrataal
Nether Spirit
Order of the Ebon Hand
Phyrexian Ghoul
Phyrexian Negator
Phyrexian Plaguelord
Priest of Gix
Rotlung Reanimator
Skittering Skirge
Spirit of the Night
Thrashing Wumpus
Withered Wretch

Anger
Atog
Avalanche Riders
Balduvian Horde
Ball Lightning
Blistering Firecat
Covetous Dragon
Flametongue Kavu
Goblin Cadets
Goblin Lackey
Goblin Piledriver
Goblin Recruiter
Goblin Ringleader
Goblin Welder
Gorilla Shaman
Grim Lavamancer
Jackal Pup
Keldon Champion
Kird Ape
Mogg Fanatic
Mogg Flunkies
Shivan Dragon
Siege-Gang Commander
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Worldgorger Dragon

Argothian Enchantress
Arrogant Wurm
Basking Rootwalla
Birds of Paradise
Blastoderm
Deranged Hermit
Elvish Piper
Elvish Spirit Guide
Eternal Witness
Forgotten Ancient
Genesis
Hermit Druid
Priest of Titania
Quirion Dryad
Ravenous Baloth
River Boa
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Spike Weaver
Symbiotic Wurm
Tinder Wall
Verdant Force
Wall of Blossoms
Wall of Roots
Wild Mongrel
Xantid Swarm

Anurid Brushhopper
Cavern Harpy
Crosis, the Purger
Crystalline Sliver
Darigaaz, the Igniter
Dromar, the Banisher
Fleetfoot Panther
Frenetic Efreet
Gaea's Skyfolk
Hibernation Sliver
Iridescent Angel
Jungle Barrier
Lightning Angel
Meddling Mage
Mystic Enforcer
Mystic Snake
Noble Panther
Phantom Nishoba
Psychatog
Rith, the Awakener
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Shivan Wurm
Sliver Queen
Spiritmonger
Treva, the Renewer

Arcbound Ravager
Bosh, Iron Golem
Bottle Gnomes
Darksteel Colossus
Duplicant
Juggernaut
Junk Diver
Karn, Silver Golem
Masticore
Metalworker
Myr Enforcer
Myr Retriever
Ornithopter
Phyrexian Colossus
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Phyrexian Walker
Platinum Angel
Razormane Masticore
Shield Sphere
Solemn Simulacrum
Su-Chi
Sundering Titan
Thran Golem
Ticking Gnomes
Triskelion

 

[Notepad]

Mother of Chin is the only card that needs to be on the list. Nothing else matches her. Her power, her clericness. Her motherness. Mother of Chin has it all. And when, all the cards belonging to a player named Mr. Chin are lit aflame by his parents, and a lone Mother of Chin survives, her true power really comes out.

 

[Mikeymike]

Suggestions for Green cuts, and they aren't easy:

Gigapede: And I love Gigapede...but it often takes a specific kind of deck for it to work well. Without a solid discard mechanism it is merely a Deadly Insect. I'm not saying it is difficult to build around or with, but it simply can't be dropped into any deck.

Rhox: Solid creature, but IMO green has better fatties. In fact I've never used Rhox b/c I've always managed to find a superior choice. Like Silvos or Tornado Elemental.

Yavimaya Enchantress: What differs her from the Argothian is that the Arg. works in every enchantment deck, is cheaper, and has built in protection. Yav-E has to run in an aggro enchantment deck, which isn't all too common. Plus she relies on Rancor to do her business.

Symbiotic Wurm: Another fatty I'm quite fond of, but it requires tricks and/or trample to really be dangerous.

Wirewood Channeler: Just because he is used in various infinite combos doesn't mean he's 'good'. 4CC for a 2/2 elf.

Elvish Piper: I've tried and tried to make this guy good, but being a 1 toughness creature that doesn't have haste means he often dies before you do anything...which especially sucks b/c you likely designed your deck around him.

Taunting Elf: Another which goes against my judgement. You can do great fun tricks with this guy, but he simply won't go in every green deck.

Elvish Spirit Guide: Simply b/c it isn't REALLY a creature. It is a spell really. It is not like you'll ever intentionally use her to beatdown to victory.

Tinder Wall - Never been a huge fan. Reminds me of a weak Dark Ritual (less mana, off-color). A solid creature, but I wouldn't include it as one of the best.

--- on the fence ---
Timberwatch Elf - Awesome ability for elves, but a stock 1 power for 3CC that relies on others elves being in play.

Hermit Druid - Should probably stay on since he is the engine to so many different kinds of combos, but I just don't love the guy for some reason. I think it is b/c his ability is just OK, it just happens that the byproduct of his ability is so malleable.

Spore Frog - I like the little guy a lot, but you've already got Spike Weaver on the list. Plus the Weaver can do many of the recur tricks that the Spore Frog can.

Quirion Dryad - It is fantastic...but essentially in just 1 deck. Another creature I like, but would not include due to its lack of breadth.

--- questionably absent ---
Silvos
Weatherseed Treefolk (likey casual bias)
Llanowar Elves
Uktabi Organgutan

 

[Oversoul]

Thanks, Mikeymike. This was definitely the section I needed suggestions with the most...

Gigapede: It is definitely good, but it may have to go.

Rhox: I like that it has regeneration and can effectively ignore blockers, but I am with you here. Rhox is likely to get cut at this point.

Yavimaya Enchantress: You also make good points here. I think she'll be leaving us as well.

Symbiotic Wurm: It may not be great on its own, but it turns Phyrexian Ghoul into something very dangerous. I am undecided on this one right now.

Wirewood Channeler: I guess that it isn't all that great except as a combo enabler, and there are better combo enablers...

Elvish Piper: Ignoring the mana costs of creatures is nothing to ignore, but it is slightly situational. I think he'll be staying for now, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had to cut him.

Taunting Elf: He may not go in every green deck, but his ability is very menacing...

Elvish Spirit Guide: Early on when I was making these lists, I came to the decision that I would be including creatures with uses that were strictly based upon abilities, not beatdown capacity. These include Ophidian, Elvish Piper, and the much-maligned (much moreso than I realized) Initiates of the Ebon Hand. There are also creatures which never actually hit the board most of the time, but are used for other qualities, like Draco, Wonder, and Elvish Spirit Guide. They really are creatures though, and not some other type of card.

Tinder Wall: I might be overestimating the versatility of this card. I was not even considering cutting it from the list until you brought it up. I would like to get a third opinion on this one...

--- on the fence ---
Timberwatch Elf: I really hate this card because it has nearly killed me numerous times. It might even have been successful once, I don't recall. I hate losing to elves. Obviously this thing is crap without other elves, but that isn't a reason to cut it if the ability is good enough...

Hermit Druid: It may be the best green creature there is. There is no way I am cutting this sucker.

Spore Frog: I was worried earlier about what would happen if it came down to cutting either Weaver or Spore Frog. They do each have advantages and I can't decide which one is really better...

Quirion Dryad: Creatures don't need to fit into a diverse array of decks in order to make the list. I would think that she makes it based on her performance in Gro decks alone...

--- questionably absent ---
Silvos: I guess that Rhox should have gone before Silvos...

Weatherseed Treefolk: One of the last creatures I cut, but I had to cut SOMETHING.

Llanowar Elves: It and Fyndhorn Elves were both cut together. They see a lot of use, but can't hold a candle to Birds of Paradise. That is an extreme example since Birds might be the top card on the final list...

Uktabi Organgutan: It and Viridian Shaman were both cut together. I cannot deny that I have used it in the past and think it is very good. However, it is very situational in anything but a toolbox deck. I don't think it would make the list on merit of that alone...

In conclusion, um, I'll see what I can do to trim green more and reply again later...

 

[DÛke]

I am so sorry...but...what are you still doing with Ertai? Rayne? Spirit of the Night? Just what happened to Skittering Skirge and Blood Pet? Why...is Disciple of the Vault still in there when Blood Pet is more universally useful to Black?...

What's up with Auratog...? Why does it exist?

I vote No for Rathi Dragon.

And I have a deep gut feeling that there is a creature out there somewhere far greater than...Thran Golem...

 

[Oversoul]

I will cut Ertai. I am not sure about Rayne. She is pretty potent...

Spirit of the Night is very good with Oath and stuff. Blood Pet is more universally useful to black, but Disciple kills people in Affinity decks. I do not particularly like such decks, but they are highly successful. I didn't want to cut Skittering Skirge, but it just didn't seem to be as good as the other suicide creatures like Skittering Horror, Carnophage, and Flesh Reaver. I may still add it back in...

Do you mean that Auratog is bad? Have you seen it with Rancor?

Rathi Dragon is a 5/5 flying for 2RR. The drawback is pretty reasonable. I will keep your suggestion in mind though...

As far as Thran Golem goes, I have exactly 25 artifact creatures on the list. That is what I was aiming for. There is no reason to cut Thran Golem unless there is something to replace it with. I'm open to other options for that slot...

 

[Oversoul]

Haha, I lied. I have done some more cuts. Take a look.

Ertai and Rayne are both gone.

Rathi Dragon is off the list...

I also took some of your suggestions for green cuts, Mikeymike. I did add Silvos as well, but then I cut him again before I was done editing...

What about gold? Who should be removed from that list?

 

[Gizmo]

Cut the following...

Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Auratog
Auriok Salvagers
Eternal Dragon
False Prophet
Monk Realist
Peacekeeper
Radiant's Dragoons
Soul Warden
Talon Sliver
Voice of All
Weathered Wayfarer

What should be in...
Blinking Spirit, Ivory Gargoyle, Icatian Javelineers, Longbow Archer, Soltari Monk, Warrior En-Kor, Reya Dawnbringer, Spectral Lynx, Devoted Caretaker, Mystic Crusader, Paladin En-Vec


Clone
Cloud of Faeries
Flying Men
Gilded Drake
Old Man of the Sea
Palinchron
Raven Guild Master
River Merfolk
Rootwater Thief
Scalpelexis
Seasinger
Temporal Adept
Trinket Mage
Vedalken Archmage
Volrath's Shapeshifter
Winged Sliver

What should be in...
Lord Of Atlantis, Wall Of Air, Ertai Wizard Inept, Dominating Licid, Dandan, Hammerhead Shark, Floodgate, Giant Oyster


Disciple of the Vault
Flesh Reaver
Hidden Horror
Kjeldoran Dead
Nantuko Husk
Nekrataal
Nether Spirit
Phyrexian Ghoul
Phyrexian Scuta
Priest of Gix
Rotlung Reanimator
Skittering Horror
Spirit of the Night
Thrashing Wumpus
Will-o'-the-Wisp

What Should be in...
Ashen Ghoul, Necratog, Krovikan Horror, Fallen Angel, Ravenous Rats, Sewer Rats, Royal Assasin, Dauthi Horror, Dauthi Ghoul, Shadow Guildmage, Ascendant Evincar, Desolation Angel, Hell's Caretaker


Anger
Atog
Balduvian Horde
Blistering Firecat
Covetous Dragon
Goblin Cadets
Goblin Lackey
Goblin Recruiter
Goblin Ringleader
Goblin Warchief
Goblin Welder
Keldon Champion
Shivan Dragon
Worldgorger Dragon

What should be in...
Mogg Raider, Goblin Sledder, Goblin Patrol, Goblin Sharpshooter, Sparksmith, Fireslinger, Wildfire Emissary, Viashino Warrior, Orcish Settlers, Kamahl Pit Fighter, Kird Ape, Lightning Dragon, Skizzik


Argothian Enchantress
Elvish Piper
Elvish Spirit Guide
Eternal Witness
Forgotten Ancient
Quirion Dryad
Spore Frog
Symbiotic Wurm
Taunting Elf
Timberwatch Elf
Tinder Wall
Xantid Swarm

What should be in...
Llanowar Elves, Spike Feeder, Scragnoth, Albino Troll, Rogue Elephant, Yavimaya Elder, Jolraels Centaur, Uktabi Orangutan, Yavimaya Ants, Simian Grunts

 

[Gizmo]

Gold...

Cavern Harpy
Darigaaz, the Igniter
Draco
Frenetic Efreet
Hibernation Sliver
Jungle Barrier
Nicol Bolas
Noble Panther
Phantom Nishoba
Shivan Wurm
Treva, the Renewer
Victual Sliver

What Should Be In...
Goblin Legionairre, Hanna Ships Navigator, Raging Kavu, Yavimaya Barbarian, Llanowar Dead, Giant Trap Door Spider, Gwendolyn Di Corci, Merieke Ri Berit


Artifact Creature...
Bosh, Iron Golem
Darksteel Colossus
Draco
Metalworker
Myr Retriever
Ornithopter
Phyrexian Colossus
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Phyrexian Walker
Su-Chi
Sundering Titan
Thran Golem

What should be in...
Brass Man, Dodecapod, Phyrexian War Beast, Steel Golem, Serrated Biskelion, Triskelion, Watchdog, Wizard Replica, Silent Arbiter

 

[DÛke]

Ok...

Obviously I am an apprentice. Could someone explain to me why Ertai is always on the list...? I've seen more people play Cloud of Faries or Glided Drake, also more Palinchron, than Ertai...

Explain...

 

[NorrYtt]

How many of the same guy do you need? Aren't Llanowar Elves = Fyndhorn Elves so we know they're both good?

Also, how much variation must there be? Phyrexian Scuta is close to Juzam Djinn is close to Grinning Demon, but how close?

- (minus) means drop
+ (plus) means add
Creatures listed otherwise I feel are debatable.

Green has too many good creatures (IMO) for just 25.


Kami of the Ancient Law > Monk Realist
Order of the White Shield = Order of Leitbur (there's no reason for both, they are a creature type apart and the redundancy is not what makes them good...)
-Preacher - I feel this guy is simply out of flavor
Essence Sliver > Plated Sliver > Talon Sliver
+Paladin en-Vec - If you play this guy, you will be surprised he's still good

Flying Men
Raven Guild Master
River Merfolk
Seasinger
Vedalken Archmage

Black Knight
Carnophage
Crypt Rats
Flesh Reaver
-Hidden Horror (no tournament niche like Putrid Imp)
-Kjeldoran Dead
Nantuko Husk = Phyrexian Ghoul (minus Insect)
Order of the Ebon Hand
Phyrexian Scuta
Plague Spitter
Skittering Horror

+Arc-Slogger
Atog
Balduvian Horde
Covetous Dragon
Goblin Cadets
-Goblin Recruiter (deck specific)
-Goblin Ringleader (deck specific)
Mogg Flunkies
Two-Headed Dragon > Shivan Dragon

Green: 30 (only five more left to cut!)
Elvish Piper
+Thornscape Battlemage
+Spike Feeder
Spore Frog
-Symbiotic Wurm (narrow, Reanimator target against control)
Taunting Elf
Timberwatch Elf
+Sakura-Tribe Elder
-Tinder Wall
+Yavimaya Elder

Call of the Herd?
Roar of the Wurm?

-Draco (ARTIFACT CREATURE)
-Iridescent Angel (Pristine Angel is WAY better)
-Noble Panther (this guy is terrible compared to other W/G 3 drops)

-Draco (this guy just bad. There are many better creatures to cast for WUBRG1, like Sliver Queen, Spiritmonger, any Dragon, Bringer...)
Myr Retriever > Junk Diver
Ornithopter
Phyrexian Colossus
-Phyrexian Dreadnought (errata'd, narrow with Illusionary Mask, unviable in Type 1, no real place in Magic)
-Phyrexian Walker
Razormane Masticore
Shield Sphere
Su-Chi
-Thran Golem (Narrow, would help if cost 6 for Scourge dragon parts)
+Triskelion

 

[train]

Glory...


kamahl...

 

[Oversoul]

Whoa, I am getting way too many suggestions to deal with just now.

Gizmo: Will you please stop spamming.

DÛke: Ertai is off the list for good, so I'm not sure what you mean...

NorrYtt: Roar of the Wurm? That's not even a creature. "Deck specific" is not a reason to cut anything. These are lists of the best creatures, not the most versatile...

 

[Oversoul]

Update...

I've cut all of the lists down to 25, effectively completing them. I still want to take suggestions to make sure that the lists are accurate. Some of them I might have rushed a bit much on and made the wrong decision somewhere...

 

[train]

I think not having Glory and Kamahl is a mistake - but it's not my list...

If you like I can provide reasons for both - but if they aren't your cup of tea - it wouldn't do me any good...

 

[Oversoul]

Glory and Kamahl aren't bad. But what is so impressive about either that makes them top 25 quality? And what should be removed in favor of them?

 

[Istanbul]

Cut from white:
Auratog - too situational
Auriok Salvagers - ditto

Add:
Devout Witness - Turns every card in your deck into a Disenchant
Paladin En-Vec - 3 mana for a 2/2 with three abilities

Cut from blue:
Cloud of Faeries - 1/1, big deal
Flying Men - ditto
Spiketail Hatchling - same
Thieving Magpie - A 1/3 flyer for 4 mana that needs to connect, bad idea

Add:
Vesuvan Doppleganger - The ultimate swiss army knife
Mist Dragon - Morphling's little brother
Fog Bank - Blocks anything you want for as long as you want
Ertai, Wizard Adept - He's a big bag of "No"

Cut from black:
Disciple of the Vault - Too situational
Kjeldoran Dead - Not strong enough for the drawback; I play Spined Fluke over this

Add:
Royal Assassin - He's just that good
Cabal Interrogator - Activated discard doesn't get much better

Red: I like it as it is

I'll get to the rest of it later.