New good creatures list thread...

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Oversoul, Nov 18, 2004.

  1. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I've trimmed the original lists down a lot. Some of the colors were harder to cut, because they have a large concentration of good creatures. I was going for the top 25 in each category, and I'm now close to reaching that. I have likely made a few mistakes here and there, cutting something that maybe should have remained. Let me know if something looks like it's missing. Also I need suggestions on what to cut in order to get these suckers down to 25 each.

    Academy Rector
    Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    Auratog
    Auriok Salvagers
    Blinding Angel
    Eternal Dragon
    Exalted Angel
    False Prophet
    Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
    Mageta the Lion
    Monk Realist
    Mother of Runes
    Order of Leitbur
    Order of the White Shield
    Peacekeeper
    Radiant's Dragoons
    Savannah Lions
    Serra Angel
    Serra Avatar
    Silver Knight
    Soltari Priest
    Soul Warden
    Voice of All
    Weathered Wayfarer
    White Knight

    Arcanis the Omnipotent
    Clone
    Cloud of Faeries
    Flying Men
    Gilded Drake
    Man-o'-War
    Merfolk Looter
    Morphling
    Old Man of the Sea
    Ophidian
    Palinchron
    Rainbow Efreet
    Raven Guild Master
    River Merfolk
    Rootwater Thief
    Scalpelexis
    Serendib Efreet
    Spiketail Hatchling
    Temporal Adept
    Thieving Magpie
    Tradewind Rider
    Trinket Mage
    Volrath's Shapeshifter
    Waterfront Bouncer
    Wonder

    Avatar of Woe
    Black Knight
    Carnophage
    Crypt Rats
    Disciple of the Vault
    Flesh Reaver
    Hidden Horror
    Hypnotic Specter
    Juzam Djinn
    Kjeldoran Dead
    Knight of Stromgald
    Nantuko Husk
    Nantuko Shade
    Nekrataal
    Nether Spirit
    Order of the Ebon Hand
    Phyrexian Ghoul
    Phyrexian Negator
    Phyrexian Plaguelord
    Priest of Gix
    Rotlung Reanimator
    Skittering Skirge
    Spirit of the Night
    Thrashing Wumpus
    Withered Wretch

    Anger
    Atog
    Avalanche Riders
    Balduvian Horde
    Ball Lightning
    Blistering Firecat
    Covetous Dragon
    Flametongue Kavu
    Goblin Cadets
    Goblin Lackey
    Goblin Piledriver
    Goblin Recruiter
    Goblin Ringleader
    Goblin Welder
    Gorilla Shaman
    Grim Lavamancer
    Jackal Pup
    Keldon Champion
    Kird Ape
    Mogg Fanatic
    Mogg Flunkies
    Shivan Dragon
    Siege-Gang Commander
    Squee, Goblin Nabob
    Worldgorger Dragon

    Argothian Enchantress
    Arrogant Wurm
    Basking Rootwalla
    Birds of Paradise
    Blastoderm
    Deranged Hermit
    Elvish Piper
    Elvish Spirit Guide
    Eternal Witness
    Forgotten Ancient
    Genesis
    Hermit Druid
    Priest of Titania
    Quirion Dryad
    Ravenous Baloth
    River Boa
    Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
    Spike Weaver
    Symbiotic Wurm
    Tinder Wall
    Verdant Force
    Wall of Blossoms
    Wall of Roots
    Wild Mongrel
    Xantid Swarm

    Anurid Brushhopper
    Cavern Harpy
    Crosis, the Purger
    Crystalline Sliver
    Darigaaz, the Igniter
    Dromar, the Banisher
    Fleetfoot Panther
    Frenetic Efreet
    Gaea's Skyfolk
    Hibernation Sliver
    Iridescent Angel
    Jungle Barrier
    Lightning Angel
    Meddling Mage
    Mystic Enforcer
    Mystic Snake
    Noble Panther
    Phantom Nishoba
    Psychatog
    Rith, the Awakener
    Shadowmage Infiltrator
    Shivan Wurm
    Sliver Queen
    Spiritmonger
    Treva, the Renewer

    Arcbound Ravager
    Bosh, Iron Golem
    Bottle Gnomes
    Darksteel Colossus
    Duplicant
    Juggernaut
    Junk Diver
    Karn, Silver Golem
    Masticore
    Metalworker
    Myr Enforcer
    Myr Retriever
    Ornithopter
    Phyrexian Colossus
    Phyrexian Dreadnought
    Phyrexian Walker
    Platinum Angel
    Razormane Masticore
    Shield Sphere
    Solemn Simulacrum
    Su-Chi
    Sundering Titan
    Thran Golem
    Ticking Gnomes
    Triskelion
  2. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Mother of Chin is the only card that needs to be on the list. Nothing else matches her. Her power, her clericness. Her motherness. Mother of Chin has it all. And when, all the cards belonging to a player named Mr. Chin are lit aflame by his parents, and a lone Mother of Chin survives, her true power really comes out.
  3. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Suggestions for Green cuts, and they aren't easy:

    Gigapede: And I love Gigapede...but it often takes a specific kind of deck for it to work well. Without a solid discard mechanism it is merely a Deadly Insect. I'm not saying it is difficult to build around or with, but it simply can't be dropped into any deck.

    Rhox: Solid creature, but IMO green has better fatties. In fact I've never used Rhox b/c I've always managed to find a superior choice. Like Silvos or Tornado Elemental.

    Yavimaya Enchantress: What differs her from the Argothian is that the Arg. works in every enchantment deck, is cheaper, and has built in protection. Yav-E has to run in an aggro enchantment deck, which isn't all too common. Plus she relies on Rancor to do her business.

    Symbiotic Wurm: Another fatty I'm quite fond of, but it requires tricks and/or trample to really be dangerous.

    Wirewood Channeler: Just because he is used in various infinite combos doesn't mean he's 'good'. 4CC for a 2/2 elf.

    Elvish Piper: I've tried and tried to make this guy good, but being a 1 toughness creature that doesn't have haste means he often dies before you do anything...which especially sucks b/c you likely designed your deck around him.

    Taunting Elf: Another which goes against my judgement. You can do great fun tricks with this guy, but he simply won't go in every green deck.

    Elvish Spirit Guide: Simply b/c it isn't REALLY a creature. It is a spell really. It is not like you'll ever intentionally use her to beatdown to victory.

    Tinder Wall - Never been a huge fan. Reminds me of a weak Dark Ritual (less mana, off-color). A solid creature, but I wouldn't include it as one of the best.

    --- on the fence ---
    Timberwatch Elf - Awesome ability for elves, but a stock 1 power for 3CC that relies on others elves being in play.

    Hermit Druid - Should probably stay on since he is the engine to so many different kinds of combos, but I just don't love the guy for some reason. I think it is b/c his ability is just OK, it just happens that the byproduct of his ability is so malleable.

    Spore Frog - I like the little guy a lot, but you've already got Spike Weaver on the list. Plus the Weaver can do many of the recur tricks that the Spore Frog can.

    Quirion Dryad - It is fantastic...but essentially in just 1 deck. Another creature I like, but would not include due to its lack of breadth.

    --- questionably absent ---
    Silvos
    Weatherseed Treefolk (likey casual bias)
    Llanowar Elves
    Uktabi Organgutan
  4. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Thanks, Mikeymike. This was definitely the section I needed suggestions with the most...

    Gigapede: It is definitely good, but it may have to go.

    Rhox: I like that it has regeneration and can effectively ignore blockers, but I am with you here. Rhox is likely to get cut at this point.

    Yavimaya Enchantress: You also make good points here. I think she'll be leaving us as well.

    Symbiotic Wurm: It may not be great on its own, but it turns Phyrexian Ghoul into something very dangerous. I am undecided on this one right now.

    Wirewood Channeler: I guess that it isn't all that great except as a combo enabler, and there are better combo enablers...

    Elvish Piper: Ignoring the mana costs of creatures is nothing to ignore, but it is slightly situational. I think he'll be staying for now, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had to cut him.

    Taunting Elf: He may not go in every green deck, but his ability is very menacing...

    Elvish Spirit Guide: Early on when I was making these lists, I came to the decision that I would be including creatures with uses that were strictly based upon abilities, not beatdown capacity. These include Ophidian, Elvish Piper, and the much-maligned (much moreso than I realized) Initiates of the Ebon Hand. There are also creatures which never actually hit the board most of the time, but are used for other qualities, like Draco, Wonder, and Elvish Spirit Guide. They really are creatures though, and not some other type of card.

    Tinder Wall: I might be overestimating the versatility of this card. I was not even considering cutting it from the list until you brought it up. I would like to get a third opinion on this one...

    --- on the fence ---
    Timberwatch Elf: I really hate this card because it has nearly killed me numerous times. It might even have been successful once, I don't recall. I hate losing to elves. Obviously this thing is crap without other elves, but that isn't a reason to cut it if the ability is good enough...

    Hermit Druid: It may be the best green creature there is. There is no way I am cutting this sucker.

    Spore Frog: I was worried earlier about what would happen if it came down to cutting either Weaver or Spore Frog. They do each have advantages and I can't decide which one is really better...

    Quirion Dryad: Creatures don't need to fit into a diverse array of decks in order to make the list. I would think that she makes it based on her performance in Gro decks alone...

    --- questionably absent ---
    Silvos: I guess that Rhox should have gone before Silvos...

    Weatherseed Treefolk: One of the last creatures I cut, but I had to cut SOMETHING.

    Llanowar Elves: It and Fyndhorn Elves were both cut together. They see a lot of use, but can't hold a candle to Birds of Paradise. That is an extreme example since Birds might be the top card on the final list...

    Uktabi Organgutan: It and Viridian Shaman were both cut together. I cannot deny that I have used it in the past and think it is very good. However, it is very situational in anything but a toolbox deck. I don't think it would make the list on merit of that alone...

    In conclusion, um, I'll see what I can do to trim green more and reply again later...
  5. DÛke Memento Mori

    I am so sorry...but...what are you still doing with Ertai? Rayne? Spirit of the Night? Just what happened to Skittering Skirge and Blood Pet? Why...is Disciple of the Vault still in there when Blood Pet is more universally useful to Black?...

    What's up with Auratog...? Why does it exist?

    I vote No for Rathi Dragon.

    And I have a deep gut feeling that there is a creature out there somewhere far greater than...Thran Golem...
  6. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I will cut Ertai. I am not sure about Rayne. She is pretty potent...

    Spirit of the Night is very good with Oath and stuff. Blood Pet is more universally useful to black, but Disciple kills people in Affinity decks. I do not particularly like such decks, but they are highly successful. I didn't want to cut Skittering Skirge, but it just didn't seem to be as good as the other suicide creatures like Skittering Horror, Carnophage, and Flesh Reaver. I may still add it back in...

    Do you mean that Auratog is bad? Have you seen it with Rancor?

    Rathi Dragon is a 5/5 flying for 2RR. The drawback is pretty reasonable. I will keep your suggestion in mind though...

    As far as Thran Golem goes, I have exactly 25 artifact creatures on the list. That is what I was aiming for. There is no reason to cut Thran Golem unless there is something to replace it with. I'm open to other options for that slot...
  7. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Haha, I lied. I have done some more cuts. Take a look.

    Ertai and Rayne are both gone.

    Rathi Dragon is off the list...

    I also took some of your suggestions for green cuts, Mikeymike. I did add Silvos as well, but then I cut him again before I was done editing...

    What about gold? Who should be removed from that list?
  8. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Cut the following...

    Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    Auratog
    Auriok Salvagers
    Eternal Dragon
    False Prophet
    Monk Realist
    Peacekeeper
    Radiant's Dragoons
    Soul Warden
    Talon Sliver
    Voice of All
    Weathered Wayfarer

    What should be in...
    Blinking Spirit, Ivory Gargoyle, Icatian Javelineers, Longbow Archer, Soltari Monk, Warrior En-Kor, Reya Dawnbringer, Spectral Lynx, Devoted Caretaker, Mystic Crusader, Paladin En-Vec


    Clone
    Cloud of Faeries
    Flying Men
    Gilded Drake
    Old Man of the Sea
    Palinchron
    Raven Guild Master
    River Merfolk
    Rootwater Thief
    Scalpelexis
    Seasinger
    Temporal Adept
    Trinket Mage
    Vedalken Archmage
    Volrath's Shapeshifter
    Winged Sliver

    What should be in...
    Lord Of Atlantis, Wall Of Air, Ertai Wizard Inept, Dominating Licid, Dandan, Hammerhead Shark, Floodgate, Giant Oyster


    Disciple of the Vault
    Flesh Reaver
    Hidden Horror
    Kjeldoran Dead
    Nantuko Husk
    Nekrataal
    Nether Spirit
    Phyrexian Ghoul
    Phyrexian Scuta
    Priest of Gix
    Rotlung Reanimator
    Skittering Horror
    Spirit of the Night
    Thrashing Wumpus
    Will-o'-the-Wisp

    What Should be in...
    Ashen Ghoul, Necratog, Krovikan Horror, Fallen Angel, Ravenous Rats, Sewer Rats, Royal Assasin, Dauthi Horror, Dauthi Ghoul, Shadow Guildmage, Ascendant Evincar, Desolation Angel, Hell's Caretaker


    Anger
    Atog
    Balduvian Horde
    Blistering Firecat
    Covetous Dragon
    Goblin Cadets
    Goblin Lackey
    Goblin Recruiter
    Goblin Ringleader
    Goblin Warchief
    Goblin Welder
    Keldon Champion
    Shivan Dragon
    Worldgorger Dragon

    What should be in...
    Mogg Raider, Goblin Sledder, Goblin Patrol, Goblin Sharpshooter, Sparksmith, Fireslinger, Wildfire Emissary, Viashino Warrior, Orcish Settlers, Kamahl Pit Fighter, Kird Ape, Lightning Dragon, Skizzik


    Argothian Enchantress
    Elvish Piper
    Elvish Spirit Guide
    Eternal Witness
    Forgotten Ancient
    Quirion Dryad
    Spore Frog
    Symbiotic Wurm
    Taunting Elf
    Timberwatch Elf
    Tinder Wall
    Xantid Swarm

    What should be in...
    Llanowar Elves, Spike Feeder, Scragnoth, Albino Troll, Rogue Elephant, Yavimaya Elder, Jolraels Centaur, Uktabi Orangutan, Yavimaya Ants, Simian Grunts
  9. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Gold...

    Cavern Harpy
    Darigaaz, the Igniter
    Draco
    Frenetic Efreet
    Hibernation Sliver
    Jungle Barrier
    Nicol Bolas
    Noble Panther
    Phantom Nishoba
    Shivan Wurm
    Treva, the Renewer
    Victual Sliver

    What Should Be In...
    Goblin Legionairre, Hanna Ships Navigator, Raging Kavu, Yavimaya Barbarian, Llanowar Dead, Giant Trap Door Spider, Gwendolyn Di Corci, Merieke Ri Berit


    Artifact Creature...
    Bosh, Iron Golem
    Darksteel Colossus
    Draco
    Metalworker
    Myr Retriever
    Ornithopter
    Phyrexian Colossus
    Phyrexian Dreadnought
    Phyrexian Walker
    Su-Chi
    Sundering Titan
    Thran Golem

    What should be in...
    Brass Man, Dodecapod, Phyrexian War Beast, Steel Golem, Serrated Biskelion, Triskelion, Watchdog, Wizard Replica, Silent Arbiter
  10. DÛke Memento Mori

    Ok...

    Obviously I am an apprentice. Could someone explain to me why Ertai is always on the list...? I've seen more people play Cloud of Faries or Glided Drake, also more Palinchron, than Ertai...

    Explain...
  11. NorrYtt Casual Green Mage

    How many of the same guy do you need? Aren't Llanowar Elves = Fyndhorn Elves so we know they're both good?

    Also, how much variation must there be? Phyrexian Scuta is close to Juzam Djinn is close to Grinning Demon, but how close?

    - (minus) means drop
    + (plus) means add
    Creatures listed otherwise I feel are debatable.

    Green has too many good creatures (IMO) for just 25.


    Kami of the Ancient Law > Monk Realist
    Order of the White Shield = Order of Leitbur (there's no reason for both, they are a creature type apart and the redundancy is not what makes them good...)
    -Preacher - I feel this guy is simply out of flavor
    Essence Sliver > Plated Sliver > Talon Sliver
    +Paladin en-Vec - If you play this guy, you will be surprised he's still good

    Flying Men
    Raven Guild Master
    River Merfolk
    Seasinger
    Vedalken Archmage

    Black Knight
    Carnophage
    Crypt Rats
    Flesh Reaver
    -Hidden Horror (no tournament niche like Putrid Imp)
    -Kjeldoran Dead
    Nantuko Husk = Phyrexian Ghoul (minus Insect)
    Order of the Ebon Hand
    Phyrexian Scuta
    Plague Spitter
    Skittering Horror

    +Arc-Slogger
    Atog
    Balduvian Horde
    Covetous Dragon
    Goblin Cadets
    -Goblin Recruiter (deck specific)
    -Goblin Ringleader (deck specific)
    Mogg Flunkies
    Two-Headed Dragon > Shivan Dragon

    Green: 30 (only five more left to cut!)
    Elvish Piper
    +Thornscape Battlemage
    +Spike Feeder
    Spore Frog
    -Symbiotic Wurm (narrow, Reanimator target against control)
    Taunting Elf
    Timberwatch Elf
    +Sakura-Tribe Elder
    -Tinder Wall
    +Yavimaya Elder

    Call of the Herd?
    Roar of the Wurm?

    -Draco (ARTIFACT CREATURE)
    -Iridescent Angel (Pristine Angel is WAY better)
    -Noble Panther (this guy is terrible compared to other W/G 3 drops)

    -Draco (this guy just bad. There are many better creatures to cast for WUBRG1, like Sliver Queen, Spiritmonger, any Dragon, Bringer...)
    Myr Retriever > Junk Diver
    Ornithopter
    Phyrexian Colossus
    -Phyrexian Dreadnought (errata'd, narrow with Illusionary Mask, unviable in Type 1, no real place in Magic)
    -Phyrexian Walker
    Razormane Masticore
    Shield Sphere
    Su-Chi
    -Thran Golem (Narrow, would help if cost 6 for Scourge dragon parts)
    +Triskelion
  12. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Glory...


    kamahl...
  13. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Whoa, I am getting way too many suggestions to deal with just now.

    Gizmo: Will you please stop spamming.

    DÛke: Ertai is off the list for good, so I'm not sure what you mean...

    NorrYtt: Roar of the Wurm? That's not even a creature. "Deck specific" is not a reason to cut anything. These are lists of the best creatures, not the most versatile...
  14. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Update...

    I've cut all of the lists down to 25, effectively completing them. I still want to take suggestions to make sure that the lists are accurate. Some of them I might have rushed a bit much on and made the wrong decision somewhere...
  15. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I think not having Glory and Kamahl is a mistake - but it's not my list...

    If you like I can provide reasons for both - but if they aren't your cup of tea - it wouldn't do me any good...
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Glory and Kamahl aren't bad. But what is so impressive about either that makes them top 25 quality? And what should be removed in favor of them?
  17. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Cut from white:
    Auratog - too situational
    Auriok Salvagers - ditto

    Add:
    Devout Witness - Turns every card in your deck into a Disenchant
    Paladin En-Vec - 3 mana for a 2/2 with three abilities

    Cut from blue:
    Cloud of Faeries - 1/1, big deal
    Flying Men - ditto
    Spiketail Hatchling - same
    Thieving Magpie - A 1/3 flyer for 4 mana that needs to connect, bad idea

    Add:
    Vesuvan Doppleganger - The ultimate swiss army knife
    Mist Dragon - Morphling's little brother
    Fog Bank - Blocks anything you want for as long as you want
    Ertai, Wizard Adept - He's a big bag of "No"

    Cut from black:
    Disciple of the Vault - Too situational
    Kjeldoran Dead - Not strong enough for the drawback; I play Spined Fluke over this

    Add:
    Royal Assassin - He's just that good
    Cabal Interrogator - Activated discard doesn't get much better

    Red: I like it as it is

    I'll get to the rest of it later.

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