Nemesis

[Killer Joe]

You knew it was comming.

Here's the question:

Is Nemesis CPA compliant?
a.) Yes, please explain.
b.) No, please explain.
c.) Not sure yet, it's too soon to tell.
d.) Stop posting Yellowjacket, you're an idiot.

This is Yellowjacket

 

[Ferret]

Hmm, nice question.

I'm going to go w/ a, for now. Keep in mind that I have not played w/ any of the cards, but have been only keeping up w/ the what I've read on MTGNews (must check the backlog later today) is that it's a slower format that doesn't have much that can be broken. A few cards would be fun for multiplayer, and it has an "old-school" feel.

-ferret

"yum yum"

 

[Chaos Turtle]

I'll go 'A'-

This is as unbroken as a set can be, unless you're counting Masques, although I would like to say that Predator, Flagship is a seriously screwed-up card in limited... at least it was at Prerelease when I watched my army of fliers (and non-fliers!) get smashed one turn after another in a draft Sunday.
Bah! But overall, very nice and balanced, a little stronger than Masques, and once again, can't be broken (thanks to preemptive errata on the Parralax cards).

 

[theorgg]

<wipes eye, sniffles.>

jus' like old times on the dojo

A) this set has the same aura as fallen empires/alliances/mirage/visions/ and yes, homelands.

the good ole days may not return... and I can't say I'll miss them...

actually, they have returned to the old working idea of "make fun, not game" and only put a few things that really are going to be in several decks like long's merfolk.(HE"S GETTING EATE'N!! TOO COOL!).
the only card that is a bit more powerful than it seems is saporling burst, and the part of the "combo" of 2 fecuindy's, ashnod's funroom, saporling burst/concardant(sp?) crossroads is type 1, and the'll just toast your ass before you can get the combo off...

by the way, does anyone have any saporling burstsX3, ashnod's altersX1, or concardant crossroadsX4?

sic semper,

 

[Spart]

Definitely "A"

As I've stated before this set should help to bring the game back to the innovators (where it belongs). It is just not enjoyable to play game after against identical decks. I've had plenty of interesting deck ideas relegated to casual play (which ain't so bad!) simply because they can't kill before turn 4. If this trend of slowing the environment continues we will be getting back to the player interaction which makes this game so great in the first place. Any set which prompts competitive players to worry that a rebels deck will be too powerful is just fine with me.

 

[TomB]

Hmmm...

CPA compliant? Sure, but that's only because I don't think ANY set ever released has been unsuitable for casual play.

As they say...It's not the power of your cards that count, it's the way you use them.

But what's this you say about pre-emptive errata, Chaos Turtle?

I hate errata.

As to the rest, I agree with Spart. Any set that opens things up to more variety in decks is OK with me. I too, dislike seeing the same decks over and over...

TomB
CPA Member

 

[Spiderman]

I have absolutly no idea as I haven't played with the cards at all.

 

[Dune Echo]

For me, it's A!

I like the cards. I have yet to see the artwork for most of them though, and I feel that aspect may be questionable at best. I have to see if Lin Sivvi's portrait is cool or not.

A lot of the cards in Masques and Nemesis are geared towards the old roots of Magic. Look at Complex Automaton: Armageddon/Claws of Gix, anybody? The Rootwater Thief, while powerful, is a good creature for blue and not over balanced. For that power you have to sacrifice resources, a bad thing for blue. It has an optional ability for the lategame, and it's a way better Vodalian Soldiers. (Now, I'm hoping 7th edition only has 1 version of any given card in the Standard enviroment at any given time. There are just way too many subpar cards, even for casual. I'll explain this statement if anyone is confused.)

Animate Land is another nice alternative to Treetop Village/Verdant Touch/Giant Growth/Angelic Favor. Rupture? Another Combustion-type card but still good.

I think Masques and Nemesis are trying to many things here:
1) Slow down the enviroment for longer, more interactive games.
2) Provide those with a smaller pocket book with more good and solid cards by putting some of the more tourney-strong in the Uncommon slot.
3) Provide good cards for drafting.
4) Give us new and innovative cards for multiplayer. (Sizzle, Flame Rift, Stronghold Gambit, Hunted Wumpus, Charmed Griffin, the Mongers, etc.)

-----------------
Dune Echo

And Ferret did say, click the signature box and you shall have an amusing/or regular comment to add to your words of wisdom. -Chitter of Ferrets, Canto 317

 

[Gumby Khan]

TomB, the errata says that the Parallax enchantments cannot permanently remove your creatures/lands/cards from the game. For instance,
I play parallax wave, comes in with 5 fade counters and when parallax wave leaves play (triggered event), all creatures removed from game by (this) parallax wave, come back under their owner's control. SO,I take a counter off and remove your squee from the game (stacked), then I disenchant my P. wave (stacked), let that resolve, P. wave leaves play, triggers "return all creatures removed from game by P. wave", checks for creatures, none have been removed, since this all was in response to targeting your Squee. Then the rest of the stack resolves, Squee is removed from game and nothing can bring it back. The errata now states that, "remove target creature from the game, IF PARALLAX WAVE IS STILL IN PLAY ..."

So, this little trick was cut-off before someone found a way to abuse it. Nice, huh?

"Give me a law and I'll find the loophole for you..."

 

[Ferret]

Thank goodness they did that. I guess those guys at WotC do monitor the discussion groups after all and know when people are going to try something sneaky w/ those "perfect" VIth Edition rules...

-ferret

"...and they waylayed another sneaky trick..."

 

[Chaos Turtle]

Good explanation, Gumby, but it was even more broken than that!
Carrying your example further, one could use the same techniques to permanently remove up to 5 creatures from the game! But that's not what was really scary!
With Opalescence in play, you could remove the Parallax Wave itself, and it would immediately return with all it's counters, along with the Parallax Tide you have in play (and all of its counters) and the lands you keep removing from the game, which return to play tapped.

Yes, they almost made Replenish the most horrifyingly broken deck in 'modern' Magic. Happily, "RepleniLax," or "Opallaxative," or whatever will never see the light of day (at least not a broken version).

R&D/DCI actually did us casual guys a favor.

 

[Gumby Khan]

"Opallaxative"? When I read that, I nearly choked on my chewing gum!! That's hilarious! I need to build a deck, just for that name!
Anyhow, I forgot to mention the additional errata, just for P. Wave, to stop the opal trick. "...return to play all creatures, other than Paralax Wave..."
If you want more prerelease facts, just visit the DCI website;

http://www.wizards.com/dci/judge/NS_Prerelease_FAQ.asp

"The best way to beat your enemy, is to KNOW your enemy..."
-Genghis Khan, Old uncle of mine...


[Edited by Gumby Khan (02-10-2000 at 11:08 PM).]

 

[TomB]

Please don't get the wrong idea guys. I'm not disagreeing with the errata. It was likely neccessary, given the scenario you just described, and under the circumstances is probably the best thing they could have done.

What I get tired of is the NEED for the errata! I don't understand how they can continue to blithely churn out these broken cards without a soul at R&D catching on to the potential for their abuse.

What exactly are they paying these guys for?

I can understand it (sort of) for the older cards they had no idea would be so changed in their efficacy with the new rules. I may not neccessarily agree with it, but I understand it.

But now they're issuing errata for cards THAT HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET!

It seems to me they need better players to work for them as playtesters. Maybe they could offer a position with the company to the PTP's as a prize for a special tourney every year.

Of course, I think the 1st year they oughta' take the whole top 8, at least. Their current crew seems less than capable, given their performance the last couple of years.

If that idea's no good, how about letting some of us do it? I'm sure there's a few people in the CPA that could break cards like these. Hell, I'll volunteer to sit around all day and play cards for a living!

Anyone else interested?

TomB
CPA Member

 

[Ferret]

I like the idea of being a playtester. Maybe, we should send an email offering our services. They don't even have to pay us - much.

-ferret

"...just a box of the next release will suit me..."

 

[Chaos Turtle]

Ya'know, with all the "Playtest Groups" they've got working on D&D 3rd edition, you'd think they would come up with something like that for Magic...

I for one wouldn't mind signing a non-disclosure agreement (like that stops the spoilers from hitting the net anyhow) to get a crack at offering my input on the new mechanics.

 

[Dune Echo]

Hey, let me jump on that dream-wagon here. Yeah, that would be really nice. Hell, I would do for free! We could insinuate our own ideas into the game that way. But, unfortunately, it makes too much sense. How can we make WotC see the light?

 

[Mordecai]

theorgg, please do not group Fallen Empires with Homelands. Fallen Empires had SOME high-quality cards (all creatures).... Order of Leitbur, Dwarven Lieutenant, Icatian Lieutenant, Dwarven Armorer... I liked that set. It's my favorite set except for Weatherlight and Tempest.

Anyway, I'd say (a). Nemesis has some cool casual cards and some fun things you can do with them. Not a lot, but it's going to be 10 times as good for casual play than it'll be for competetive Constructed (oh, the horror!)

Mordecai the Destroyer
Fear me if you must

 

[theorgg]

I know that fallen empires was a good set!

It's my favorite one so far! I'm comparing them with the others because there wasn't anything TOTALLY broken in any of them, really. just some good-usin, fun-lovin' cards in all of 'em.

sure, not all of them were good. but fallen empires and Homelands have quite a few similarities.
Hell, I started collecting with homlands!
and fallen was the second set I collected.
both of theese expantions were good for the game, really. they did alot for theme decks. dwarves/minotaurs, multiple arts for commons, et cetera are several qualities that they had. even Balanced creature removal in artifacts!aleopile/serrated arrows!

oh, and next time, it's just Orgg.


as for playtesting, I'd love to. but tempus minimus, so it may not be as thourough(my schoolwork, that is...)

sic semper,

 

[Chaos Turtle]

I see your point, TomB, and I tend to agree, but atleast it's an improvement over waiting until a card ruins a major tournament (Academy) before taking care of the problem.

Even so, didn't they hire card-monster Randy Buehler to help test these things out? I understand that sets are developed months in advance, but considering that the 'breakage' was all over the MTGnews discussion board (for the Parallax cards) it seems like Randy would have noticed something like that right away.
Maybe they ought to offer Zvi a job... if there's a way to break a card, he'll find it long before the presses are running. Bargain was banned in Extended before it was legal because of a deck Zvi sent to MaRo.

Whoa, did I just agree with TomB?

 

[TomB]

Mordecai,
You forgot Hymn to Tourach, Order of the Ebon Hand, Initiates of the Ebon Hand, and Hand of Justice. Even Ebon Praetor wasn't too bad in a deck with lots of Thrulls, multiple Breeding Pits, and Bad Moons.

Personally, for balanced play, I preferred Mirage. The blue fliers with forced phasing blew, but the rest of the set was excellent.

TomB
CPA Member

[Edited by TomB (02-13-2000 at 04:52 AM).]