Multiplayer - when the owner leaves play

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by jtredway, May 19, 2003.

  1. jtredway New Member

    I understand that there are no official MP rules. Nevertheless, I have a question(s) that I was hoping others could comment on.

    When a player is "killed" in MP (e.g. chaos), it is generally agreed that the permanents he owns and controls leave play. However, what happens if he permanently controls a permanent owned by another player? On the flip side, what happens if one or more of his permanents are permanently controlled by another player?
  2. EricBess Active Member

    As you yourself mentioned, there are no official rules. As such, all players should decide before hand what happens in this case.

    I've seen a lot of different things done. The easiest way of handling things is just to say that anything he controls is gone.

    One I like is that anything he controls is gone except for local enchantments enchanting permanents controlled by other players.

    One of the concerns is that once a player is eliminated, they often want to leave. Because of this, some people play that whatever the player owns is also gone, regardless of who currently controls it. That way, the player can take his stuff and leave. Of course, this means that anyone who controls a permanent owned by another player may think twice about taking that player out.

    Really, it all depends on what you and your group want to do. Just make sure you decide before you start player so you can avoid any plays based on faulty understandings.
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Totally agree.

    My group happens to play that if a player is taken out, all of his stuff goes, including stuff controlled by another player.
  4. train The Wildcard!!!...

    That would be the best way to do it... unless he/she is waiting for the next multiplayer to begin...
  5. BigBlue Magic Jones

    Around here? An argument usually ensues because every time it happens some people want it to be different.

    What ***I*** would like to see happen... When a player in MP dies, everything he has dies with him, whether he owns it or not (your own personal Apocalypse).

    But some people think controlled permanents should be free to return to the owner's control.

    Damn, where's that spellchecker when I need it? :p
  6. EricBess Active Member

    Well, that's another issue that needs to be addressed. If someone has a Control Magic controlling another players creature (for example), how do you deal with it.

    You almost always get rid of what someone controls, but in this case, there was always the chance for a Disenchant. Do you get rid of what they own first, then apply state-based effects, then get rid of what they still control?

    That would also deal with Callous Oppressor and Bribery and...

    If you strictly get rid of what they control, the Control Magic and the creature should go at the same time. But again, the group must decide. Unlike BB, you should decide prior to playing :D
  7. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Its alot easier to have an opponent leave that has a lot of tokens...

    Just a matter of point!
  8. train The Wildcard!!!...

    It would be even easier to Apocalypse just before killing someone...
  9. EricBess Active Member

    Yes, but in your case Nightstalkers, you don't need anyone else around to play multi-player... :D
  10. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    The rules on Control Magic leaving w/ the player are the same as if it were disenchanted: The creature returns to the original owner's control (or prior owner if another Control Magic is on it).

    If they were enchanting a dead creature w/ something like Animate Dead, then the card is returned to it's prior graveyard.

    If a creature was under their control due to an effect by a Coffin Queen, the creature would be removed from the game.

    Just treat each card as if they were burried under normal circumstances...


    "The King is dead - long live the carnage!"
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    But you can also argue (and EricBess was doing so), that the creature itself should be buried, perhaps because the person who owned it didn't actually kill the player so why should they benefit from getting their creature back?

    It all depends on the interpretation of the playgroup. If only permanents that the player owned get destroyed and other permanents revert back to their owners, that might be incentive for another player to keep the about-to-be-killed-player alive, 'cause maybe they have an alliance and he doesn't want his opponent to get back his creature. If everything goes, then maybe he does want to kill that players, because not only does he get rid of an opponent but also a creature of another opponent. It all depends...
  12. train The Wildcard!!!...

    It's a casual play group for multiplayer...
    rules should be thrown out the window, and everyone beat down...

    "It's not a democracy..."
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Just put any 'ol spell into play, attack as many times as you want, draw whenever (or just play with your entire library as your hand)?

  14. train The Wildcard!!!...

    See?!... Spidey gets it!!!...;) :p
  15. BigBlue Magic Jones

    There are certainly multiple ways to look at this...

    2 control decks (Players A & B) and a Burn Deck (Player C) are playing free-for-all multiplayer.

    Player A has 3 life and has 4 creatures in play (a Mahamoti Djinn -Owned by B and controlled via Control Magic, a Shivan Dragon owned by player C which came to Player A via Bribery, an Old Man of the Sea, and a Goblin Flotilla owned by Player C, but controlled by the Old Man).

    Player B has 2 life and has 2 creatures in play (a seasinger owned by player A but controlled via a control Magic, an Air Elemental owned by Player A which is under control due to the Seasinger).

    Player C has 4 life and has no creatures in play.

    Forgetting for a minute that player A is an idiot for not taking back his seasinger with the Old man... What do you think should happen when player C casts Lightening Bolt at Player A (and it resolves).

    1) All Permanents owned AND controlled by player A leave play - Returning the Djinn, Dragon, and Flotilla to their owners but leaving the Seasinger and Air Elemental in play.

    2) All Permanents controlled by Player A leave play - putting the Djinn, Dragon, and Flotilla in their owners graveyards but leaving the Air Elemental and Seasinger under the control of Player B.

    3) All Permanents owned by Player A leave play - retuning the Djinn, Dragon and Flotilla to their owners control and taking the Seasinger and Air Elemental out of the game with Player A.

    4) All Permanents controlled or owned by Player A leave play - putting the Djinn, Dragon, Flotilla, Seasinger, and Air Elemental in their owners graveyards.

    5) Something Else.

    I'm curious. So curious that I entered this as it's own Poll/Thread.

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