Multiplayer: Announcement of Combat

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Killer Joe, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. Killer Joe Active Member

    Okay, there are 3 players in the game. It's Player "A"s turn and he's about to enter his combat phase. Should he also announce who he is attacking before declaring attackers? What if Player "B" has a Master Decoy in play and will only use it if he's attacked? Oh sure, he can use it in Player "A"s pre-combat Main Phase but Player "A" was going to attack player "C".

    Little help?
  2. Limited Yes, but we won't care

    Player B can't wait to hear who A is going to attack. Player A has to announce that he has no more effect to play in his pre-combat phase and that he would like to proceed to his combat phase. If nobody responds, he enters his combat phase and gets to declare attackers. While declaring attackers, you also declare who you are attacking.

    Fun trick: If Player B has a Master Decoy (or something like it) act like you forgot it and announce attackers and announce that you will be attacking player C. Immediately back up and untap your creatures and "correct" yourself, by saying: "Sorry, I meant to say that I would like to go to my combat phase". Now, if player B has no responses (confidant that you are going to kick player C behind for some reason), attack player B with everything!

    :D
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    As far as I know, he just has to declare that he's entering his Attack Phase and give his opponent's a chance to respond without knowing who he's going to attack. The Declare Attackers step is where that happens.

    EDITED 'cause of Limited's reply: OOoo, that's sneaky...
  4. EricBess Active Member

    One small correction.

    You first announce that you are entering your combat phase. If no one responds, you are now in the pre-attack step. So, if you just say you are entering your combat phase and no one has responses, if you attack immediately, they can back you up.

    A better phrase to use is, "I'm going to declare my attackers", which implies not only that you are going to enter the combat phase, but that you have nothing to do during the pre-attack step. After that, the rest is correct.

    Why is this important? Suppose I have Ball Lightning in my hand and a creatures in play and you have Master Decoy. If I say, "I'm going to enter my attack phase" and you tap my creature, then you backed me up to my main phase, so I can play Ball Lightning and attack. However, if you say, "Okay, you are in your attack phase." and then you tap my creature before I actually declare attackers, it's too late to play Ball Lightning for the attack.

    The specific answer to the question, however, is that you don't need to announce who you will be attacking with what until it is actually time to declare attackers and therefore too late to use the Master Decoy to stop an attacker.
  5. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    All players must pass Priority to enter the Combat Phase.
    There is a little window in the combat phase, before attackers are declared that a stack can be started. Once the stack is empty and all players pass priority then attackers are declared.

    Very sneaky, Mr Limited.... Although, knowingly making a mistake to gain an advantage is technically cheating.....

    Try this, "Player C what do you have available to block?", match your creatures up as you think Player C may block your attack, Then announce you are going into your combat Phase and attack Player B if they do not use the Decoy.
  6. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Nothing to do with combat, but I remember in on three-player game, I had my old R/G deck with Channel and Kaervek's Torch and my opponent with a U/B shadow deck was finishing off the other opponent. He was at 12 life and I was at 20. He had two land untapped, but I figured even if he let Channel through and had Force of Will in his hand, I could Torch him for 6 twice and (since he countered one of them) try to finish him off with attackers before he was able to stop me (he had quite an arsenal of shadow creatures and disruption spells). I played Channel and then paid a bunch of life to it. I put Kaervek's Torch down and said that I was playing it, but my opponent right away tapped out and played Force of Will. I said, "Okay, it's countered" and then, "By the way, X was zero on that Torch. This one is for eleven."

    I guess I didn't technically trick him, since he handed me the opportunity. But still pretty funny.
  7. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    No, No, No...... bad playing by both of you......
    He can not cast FoW, until you have finished playing your Torch and that includes paying for it, so X has to be chosen and paid for, before any response is possible. But, you got away with that one.

    ugh.... sorry, the judge side of me is taking control......
    Must make ruling, must make ruling....... :eek:
  8. Killer Joe Active Member

    Here come the judge...here come the judge..... :p
  9. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Well, I knew he was supposed to wait for me to pay for X, and of course he never made that mistake again. But at the time, he was very eager to counter my Torch. I wasn't going to nitpick, since it was to my advantage not to. I don't see how that's bad playing by me. It won me a game I would possibly have lost otherwise.
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I have to agree. It was the dude's fault for jumping the gun.
  11. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Only because it's against the rules. He didn't have priority, so he could not cast anything until the spell being played is cast (including paying for X), then priority had to be passed to him. If you wanted to teach him a lesson in a casual game, that's fine, if you told him his mistake. Is winning that important?
  12. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Since it was a three player game, it sounds pretty casual to me. Just a bunch of guys playing Magic and slinging spells. You could always laugh about it after the game "Hey, remember when you tried to counter my Torch? You should have waited until I announced what X was before doing it."

    It doesn't sound like it was a training session of Magic, teaching someone the ropes.
  13. Killer Joe Active Member

    ugh!

    Winning is important to me but I have to win by the rules or I feel like crap, casual or not. I Know I've written about this before. Of course, that's just my two denar... :rolleyes:
  14. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I like to win by the rules too, but I get the impression this was a while ago, back when Magic was pretty fast and loose. I mean, I'm sure we all have stories how we thought a card was supposed to be played in it was supposed to be something else, or jumping the gun because you don't really care about the nit-picky order in which you have to declare a spell - you're just having a good time playing.
  15. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Yeah, exactly.
  16. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    As long as you two know better now..... :D
    It's a judge thing, we get so immersed in the rules that we can't help ourselves... even if it's to our own detriment.
  17. Killer Joe Active Member

    Believe you ME! Moosie and I have played with our other judge friends and you ain't gettin' away wit SQUAT!!!! :p

    As for "fast & Losse" and "A while ago" just last year one of the players in the MML played "Fog" at the end of my turn therefore declaring that all combat damage was dealt was now gone. So fast and loose wasn't all that long ago :(
  18. DarthFerret Evil Sith Weasel

    Reading this brought back the memory of a group of us beta testers trying to figure out (from that small little rulebook that used to come in the starters) exactly how to play. For a very short time, we thought that you had to pay the cost of the creature each time you attacked with it...(funny lookin back...). There were a whole lot of speed issues, instant vs. interrupt, vs. obtaining mana from lands/artifacts. There were several heated debates over this. Funny, lookin back, how many things that I just take for granted now, however, back then, I really had to concentrate on almost every aspect of the game.
  19. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    KJ: Well, THAT'S stretching it a bit... :)
  20. Killer Joe Active Member

    ...but I wanted to counter it three turns from then just to be annoying... :rolleyes:

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