Mana burn

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Dune Echo, May 16, 2001.

  1. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Zadok: Sorry, I missed you subtleness :(

    Rando: Apparently you were playing wrong too.
    Mana also emptied at the beginning and end of the attack, along with the phases.

    An interesting note: Long ago the Duelist asked readers to send in their opinions about mana burn to see if it should be taken out. From what I remember, the majority wanted to keep it in to do hokey tricks like Reverse Damage and stuff (this was when you could go negative 0 life during a phase).
  2. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Well, that would be all well and good - But mana burn is loss of life, not damage, correct? Wasn't there a BIG difference, even back then?
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    According to the Ice Age rulebook, on page 63 under the definition of Mana Pool, "mana burn is a colorless source of damage".

    I don't have time to look it up on crystalkeep right now but will advise in the future if I'm able.
  4. terzarima New Member

    Meh, trust me, Mana burn is loss of life. I'm sure WOTC has it or crystalkeep.
  5. olwen New Member

    G.22 - Mana Burn
    G.22.1 - If you have any mana in your mana pool at the end of a phase (see
    Rule P.3.1), then you lose 1 life for each point of mana in your mana
    pool and that mana is lost. [CompRules 99/04/23]
  6. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Um, guys, the point was how mana burn was treated pre-6th. That's what Rando was referring to and that's why I quoted from the Ice Age rulebook. I was saying I don't know what crystalkeep said about mana burn in pre-6th since I only had the rulebook and am actually not sure if Ice Age rules was 4th or 5th.
  7. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Actually, I think I recall that mana burn was life loss under 5th edition rules. 4th was the last to use the colorless damage idea.
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Yep, you are correct, I finally got around to looking it up on crystalkeep, mana burn is loss of life starting from 5th rules onward. I guess Ice Age was 4th or 3rd rules.

    I don't think it makes a difference though :)
  9. Rando Freaky Bear

    Hmmmm...

    It makes me wonder what else I was doing wrong "back in the day".

    Oh well...It's not like I ever died from it or sat at a game thinking "Damn! Were it not for the fear of Mana Burn, I could do this!"

    See what happens when you try to teach yourself the game?
    For the first 2 years of my Magic: The Gathering life, I only ever played with 2 other people.

    *sigh*

    The days of flying Aysen Beurocrats...
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    This is true. Pretty much the only time I had to worry about mana burn was when I cast a Dark Ritual and only used 2 of the mana.

    Apparently some people liked to build decks around that Mana Burn/Reverse Damage type combo pre-5th though <shrug>
  11. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    This actually becomes a big problem for me because I always end up with tons of extra mana during all steps of my turn with my all artifact deck. In fact, the deck is based around that idea. For instance, I would put the upkeep cost of my Mana Crypt on the stack and then Umbilicus'. I would tap the Mana Crypt for 2 mana, then resolve the Umbilicus' upkeep. The Mana Crypt's upkeep goes away. I would then use that two floating mana during my Draw Step to power Well of Knowledge and draw more cards. I did the same thing with Mana Vaults too. According to what I learned originally, this was all legal. Now it's not. This really shoots my boat out of the water too. That's my favorite deck to play.
  12. Lotus Mox New Member

    actually you can use mana from your upkeep in your draw step, mana burn occurs only at the end of a phase and the beginning phase contains both upkeep and drawing.

    But I doubt that bouncing your Crypt during your upkeep saves you from its damage, because the new wording says it triggers at the beginning of your upkeep before you can bounce it.
    This trick works with Mana Vault, because the damage of it is dealt during your draw step, so you can bounce it during your upkeep to save you from its damage.


    for reference:

    Mana Crypt
    Color=Artifact Type=Artifact Cost=0 PR(FS)
    Text(PR+errata): At the beginning of your upkeep, flip a coin. If you lose the flip, ~this~ deals 3 damage to you. ; {Tap}: Add two colorless mana to your mana pool. [Oracle 00/05/10]

    Mana Vault
    Color=Artifact Type=Artifact Cost=1 ABUR45(R1)
    Text(5th+errata): ~this~ doesn't untap during your untap step. ; At the beginning of your upkeep, you may pay {4}. If you do, untap ~this~. ; At the beginning of your draw step, if ~this~ is tapped, it deals 1 damage to you. ; {Tap}: Add three colorless mana to your mana pool. [Oracle 00/02/01]
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I agree with Lotus Mox; I honestly can't really remember anymore how upkeep was handled pre-6th, but now since the Crypt triggers at the beginning of upkeep, it gets put on the stack and won't go away even if you resolve the Umbilicus first (goes back to the 'ol "kill the source but not the effect" type rule). So you'll still have to flip a coin.

    Maybe you should add more mana sinks in, like Dragon Engine or something (admittedly you don't gain the surprise factor anymore but it's just an example).
  14. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    I am going to have to sit down and read the damned rules again. I seriously was under the impression that the stack checks to see if whatever caused the trigger was still in place before it completed much like how you can target a creature with Lightning Bolt, your opponent responds with Alexi's Cloak, the Cloak resolves, and the Lightning Bolt checks to see if it's still legal, and then fizzles.

    ARGH!
  15. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Is there any other major rules anyone thinks I need to be aware of? ;) DON'T ACTUALLY ANSWER THAT!

    Lotus Mox: Thanks for that clarification in regards to the Mana Crypt versus Mana Vault. I'll have to slip more Mana Vaults in and use them in that function instead of the Mana Crypts. Luckily, I'm trying to get my hands on 3 Ivory Towers to counteract the damage dealt to me by the Mana Crypts. I know this isn't the Trading Forum, but is there anyone that can help me with that? I don't have much to trade though.
  16. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Just as a note, your assumption IS correct in that when an effect resolves on the stack, it re-checks whether the target is legal. So your example is correct.

    However, it doesn't parallel your upkeep example exactly. To do that, you'd have to say the Bolt is just taken off the stack and doesn't even attempt to resolve. Which of course doesn't happen :)

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