Let's build a sligh deck! -Gizmo

T

The Magic Jackal

Guest
Here's a type 2 sligh deck that I've been working on. My teammate showed it to me a couple of weeks ago, and I've been intrigued ever since.

4 keldon champions
4 goblin patrols
4 raging goblins
4 goblin war buggy
4 goblin cadets
4 shock
4 seal of fires
4 flame rift
4 reckless abandon
3 Hammer of Bogarden
13 mountian
4 ports
4 encampment


any ideas?
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Not sure the straight burn approach is good enough. (In fact I know it isn`t - saw one flop horribly at my National`s Qualifier). Impending Disaster is a V.Strong metagame card against Replenish and Blue, so I go for a variant based therin - fast creatures (ie, minimal echo) but with a landbreak at 4 for the Disasters, and a little long term support for when you draw a lot of the 23 land I put in and no Disasters.

4 Goblin Patrol
3 Laccolith Whelp
2 Kris Mage
-----
4 Seal Of Fire
4 Shock
(17)

4 Goblin Raider
3 Mogg Toady/Goblin Masons
-----
3 Impending Disaster
(27)

3 Keldon Vandals
2 Arc Mage
-----
3 Hammer Of Bogardan
(35)

2 Masticore
(37)

2 Ghitu Encampment
4 Rishadan Port
17 Mountain
(60)
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
You wanna use Rishadan Port. Why? It ties up your mana, and your deck is all about speed. If you're using R. Port, you're already losing the game.

*sigh* Everyone's looking for the new Cursed Scroll, the new card-where-4-should-go-into-every-deck. Unfortunately, too many people haven't realized that Rishadan Port ISN'T IT. Speed decks should be using their mana to cast things, not to tap opponents' lands. Control decks draw the game out to mid-to-late-game, and that's when Rishadan Ports become almost useless.

Rishadan Ports are wonderful in Land Destruction decks, where you can often not cast anything on the second turn. I have yet to see them being too useful in any other deck.
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
First of all, I feel the raging urge to defend Rishidan Port... :) No, it's not Cursed Scroll. No, it's not 4 to a deck. But it _is_ a good, disruptive card that belongs in this deck. And I really want to defend it right now. But I'm not going to, 'cause I have something better to do: Scream and yell at Gizmo. :) J/K.

*Commence screaming and yelling*

Where's the Rivalries???? That deck was GOOD, it really was. Not great, I'll give you that, but a strike above the average deck. As you said yourself, modern control decks just lose to the first Rivalry that hits the table. I should have seen it sooner myself, but look at the synergy in place with the Ports and Impending Disasters! It fits the deck perfectly.

Your deck is heavily oriented towards a cheap, early game. Rivalry gives you a permanent source of two damage a turn, for a total investment of three mana. It messes pretty heavily with Replenish (though they will sometimes remove it via Opal/Wave), and beats Acc. Blue flat out. Blue's usual clocks aren't as good against you (your deck clocks right back), and the Rivalry speeds that up even more.

*End screaming and yelling*

Seriously, the cards are in place. The aggressive creatures and direct damage are there. The low land count (by modern standards) is there. Where's the Rivalries?

"Historical events..."
 
D

Dune Echo

Guest
Well, when it comes to the Rishadan Ports, why use them in this particular deck. Honestly, I've never used them. But if you're planning on blowing up land anyway, why worry about slowing your land count by 2 every turn to stop their 1 when you could be casting Impending Disaster and throwing out more lands?

Also, if you're planning on your opponent having no lands, wouldn't Flailing Soldier be good, especially if you get stuck with a land glut?

I also agree with Zadok in that Rivalry would be very good here, IMO. If you're blowing up lands, you're opponent is going to have to cast spells again and again. Rivalry would just force them to dig their own graves, right?
 
D

Duel

Guest
I feel the urgent need to defend the potential for stalling in every speed deck. I played green stompy stall for a while, and, while it was not my best deck, it was a great deal of fun to play. Red sligh deserves a chance to stall too. The only problem is the mana base. If you draw one or two land on average, a Rishadan port could really slow the deck down. Rivalry is a good card, though Zadok over-ranted it, and I'm wondering where the mass elimination went. Gizmo's deck seems more viable, having masticore for a little control. I'd put in flowstone armour for flavour, and possibly, just possibly, arc mage. I know it's second rate burn, but it's still fun.
Of course, if all else fails, Wakefield's "Lucky Goblins" are always an option...
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
I`m afraid I have to disagree. When I look at the T2 field right now I only see one deck that will suffer from a Rivalry (Port Blue), and so I don`t think it goes in the core. And as an SB card it comes second to Scald.

Port is just Wasteland. I don`t need to run 23 red mana sources so I might as well run 4 Port because they are the colorless lands most likely to come in useful.

Erm, didn`t I already have 2 Arc Mage in?
 
G

galtwish

Guest
4 Cadet
4 Patrol
4 Lackey
4 War Buggy
4 Mason
4 Raider
4 Shock
4 Seal
4 Abandon
4 Arc Lightning
4 Rishadan Port
16 Island

SB
4 Scald
3 Ghitu Encampment
4 Parch
4 Cursed Totem

Should beat just about everything other than Stompy and Ponza, and it still has a pretty good chance against those decks. Blue, Replenish, and Bargain aren't going to be doing a lot of blocking, so Cadets are Jackal Pups, one of combo and controls worst enemies. Port is Wasteland, effectively delaying decks until they draw another land. You could add more utility like Keldon Vandals to help beat AccelBlue and Ponza, but this deck should give them enough troble as is.

Speaking of Ponza...

4 Stone Rain
4 Pillage
4 Riders
4 Tectonic Break
4 Grim Monolith
4 Fire Diamond
4 Masticore
4 Seal of Fire
1 Shock
3 Hammer of Bogardan
4 Ghitu Encampment
4 Rishadan Port
2 Dust bowl
14 Mountian

4 Blood Oath
4 Cursed Totem
4 Earthquake
3 Boil

The artifacts allow you to break for 2-3 on turn 3, allowing you to beat Replenish without the Seal of Cleansing draw. Additionally, they help you get around Chill and Tectonic Break cannot be Misdirected. Additionally, this is a pretty good choice against Sabre Bargain (w/o Keys), which will probably be making a significant comeback in some metagames due to it's superiority to Replenish as a combo deck. blood Oath is a huge card against Replenish or Bargain on turn 3 (via the artifacts), and doesn't help Blue (another must counter) or Rebels.

A more controlling Sligh (O.G. Sligh)
4 Flailing Soldier
4 Kris Mage
4 Shock
4 Seal of Fire
4 Goblin Raider
4 Goblin Mason
4 Impending Disaster
4 Arc Lightning
4 Pillage
4 Rishadan Port
3 Ghitu Encampment
17 Mountian

And Rivalry doesn't help that much, liek Giz said. It's a bad Scald against deck that don't have Islands because they will just win before it becomes an issue.

Erik
 
T

The Magic Jackal

Guest
I'm going to have to go w/ galtwish and agree that the actual sligh deck is better than the controlling one. I think I'm still going to stick w/ my original idea. I have thought about the lackeys and masons. the reason i don't play them is, the buggeys are more efficient than the masons(due to haste), and the lackeys wouldn't really bring in anything that i couldn't cast without a problem. I also like the hammers over the arc lightening. The flame rift also speeds up the kill, and if you pull two in your first hand, it's just wicked. Anyway, I think I'm going to stick w/ my orginal idea, because i really don't like the control idea, and i haven't seen a better decklist anywhere.

Speaking of ponza.....

creatures 8
Avalanche Riders 4
Flowstone overseer 1
Masticore 3

Spells 27
Stone Rain 4
Pillage 4
powder keg 4
Tectonic Break 4
Seal of Fire 4
Hammer of bogarden 3
Cave-in 2
shock 2

Land 25
Sandstone Needles 4
Ghitu Encampment 4
Mountain 11
rishidian port 4
Dust Bowl 2


In three tournaments, this has a record of something like 16-5-3, with all losses to players who also made the top eight, and all ties with ID.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Well if you want speed then I think Lackey/Marshall is the best bet for a red deck.

But what is a fast burn sligh supposed to beat?
It won`t beat Replenish (too good), or Stompy (too big), or WWeenie (too Prot), it might worry blue (except it won`t) I guess it could maybe pressurise Bargain (but not as fast as Stompy), it doesn`t have a hope against Suicide (everything is 4/4) or Tinker (everything is 8/8), although I guess it might have enough to annoy Squirrel Prison (because it`s crap and anything beats it).

It`s like Adrian Sullivan said about Ponza "Ive been asking around for what Ponza beats, and the best answer I came up with was 'other Ponza decks'".
What does Sligh beat?
Other Sligh decks. Half the time.
:(

If you want to play an aggressive Sligh deck my advice to you would have to be to take all the Mountains out and replace them with Forests. A fast-tuned Stompy deck like this feels an awful lot like Fireblast Sligh when you play it.
It`s missing a Ball Lightning - but you can`t have everything.

3 Elven Lyrist
3 Stampede Driver
4 Skyshroud Ridgeback
4 Pouncing Jaguar
4 Wild Dogs
4 River Boa
4 Albino Troll

4 Rancor
4 Giant Growth
4 Seal Of Strength

2 Treetop Village
4 Rishadan Port
16 Forest

No. of cunning tricks: 0
No. of big fat monsters: 0

If you want to include anything bigger than the Trolls then you need to add in Cradles, which I don`t want to do because they screw up my first turns. Dryads and Cutters are really poor.

Actually - that reminds me of the funniest thing I have seen in a tournament since I saw somebody start a game with:
Brushland, tap for Green, Gazhban Ogre

Somebody actually made this first turn play - and they were on table 3 in the fifth round so they weren`t some Johnny Random scrub.
Forest, Wild Dogs, give you five life, Cutter
Oh...
My...
God!
He lost that game, for some reason.
Cutters, eh - they`re just a synergy MACHINE!
:p

Wow, that just made this topic nice and green, didn`t it.
:D
 
G

galtwish

Guest
Goblin burn has to be an all out risk. You need all the crappy burn spells available, and you MUST have Lackey so you can pump out threats twice as fast. Arc Lighting is strictly superior in this deck over the Hammer, because if you are in a position to recur the Hammer, you lost about 4 turns ago. If you really want a crappy deck for Red Burn that only beats combo and Blue, here you go:

4 Lackey
4 Patrol
4 Cadet
4 Mason
4 Raider
4 Shock
4 Seal
4 Flame Rift
4 Abandon
4 Scent
4 Port
16 Mountian

This is what you should use if you don't expect a lot of creature decks other than Suicide Black. The other Sligh deck I listed has more of a chanch against Stompy and Ponza.

Jackal, how can you run 4 Breaks and only 25 Land? And why run only 3 Masticores? Overseer can be you 5th and 6th Masticore, as it is really only superior against Boa, Troll, and large scale creature combats.

Finally; Giz do you really support Vine Dryad-less Stompy?

4 Dogs
4 Jags
4 Elves
4 Boas
4 Trolls
2 Blastoderm
4 Dryads
4 Rancor
4 Growth
4 Invigorate
2 Village
4 Cradle
16 Forest

SB
4 Land Grant
1 Blastoderm
2 Harmonic Convergience
4 Elvish Lyrist
4 Rushwood Legate

The Cradle is too good to ignore in my opinion, and with Land Grant, Dryad, and Legate vs Replenish and Blue, you should have more than enough mana to cast your threats and send the beats. Port is good, but in this deck your threats are stronger than the disruption Port offers on average.

And Marshall/Lackey?

4 Lackey
4 Cadet
4 Patrol
4 Raging
4 Marshall
4 Mogg Alarm
4 Shock
2 Last-Ditch Effort
4 Reckless Abandon
4 Trumpet Blast
2 Ghitu Encampment
20 Mountians

really? It looks terrible even to me

Erik
 
D

Dune Echo

Guest
Am I the only person that sees the inherent beauty of Skyshroud Cutter? IT JUST ROCKS! I'm telling you, play it in 9 Land Green with no Ogres or Dogs and you can often make up that life loss plus more on turn 2!
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Vine Dryad is a technically bad card - you use two cards to put a 1/3 into play on the first turn. This is a completely unwarranted swing towards the early game , if the Dryad were larger, say a 2/3, it might be worth it, but it will inevitably come round to have minimal impact on the game span, far less than the two other spells you might have played (okay - you play with a Vine Dryad, I`ll play with a Stampede Driver and a Seal of Strength, let`s see who wins).
Dryad is good in mirror, I cannto argue otherwise, but even ther it really needs a Rancor to make the difference in the matchup.


Trust me, the Cradle-less, Dryad-less listing that I gave is a total wrecking ball of a deck.
Unless you are going to gain massive advantage from a Cradle then it simply is not worth it. And Ports are your best card against Replenish - Stampy will probably lose to Replenish if it doesn`t have Ports.

Having 8 Giant Growth is awesome, it really is Fireblast Sligh all over again. With my list every single card in your deck (bar the Lyrists, and they can be replaced by Hidden Herd) is a hideously undercosted beating stick and you just ball straight through people. I don`t have an SB because Stampy decks don`t need one - they are either so fast they win through whatever junk their opponents SB in, or they get hosed out completely by Hibs and Perish.

Probably would look like this (built as I speak, so likely to be total gibberish):
4 Orangutan
4 Tangle Wire
4 Hidden Ancients
3 Blanchwood Armour
 
T

The Magic Jackal

Guest
The Land ratio is perfect in my deck. I rarely get screwed. Any more or less and i get mana screwed too much. This does take in the fact that I am using 4 tectonic breaks.

So why am i using tectonic break? That makes my deck have 20 Ld cards-more than other ponza decks, which allow me to win the first game of the mirror match. Really, i have never lost the first game of a ponza vs. ponza match. Also, a single tec break can, and usually will, win you the game. If you tecbreak after destroying their land the first couple of turns, they will rarely recover.

BTW, I'm only using 3 cores because i only have 3. The overseer is also good if you actually cast it, because it doesn't have the drawback.
 
D

DrJ31

Guest
Good Sligh deck....except. A couple things wrong. First of all, Port? Why? The deck is about speed not control. Another thing, no middle or late game. If you don't win by turn four, against any worthy deck your screwed. So but in some Lackeys and Marshals or maybe some Hordes and you'll be fine.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Okay...

The Port
by David Sutcliffe

Beatdown decks win because, through the speed with which they prosecute an early game offense, their opponents are unable to play out their spells. This means that, despite the fact the beatdown deck did not use anything like a Jayemdae Tome or Stroke Of Genius, the beatdown deck has gained massive card advantage over it`s opponent.
This is why beatdown decks win - they use the speed with which the game ends to gain card advantage. This is popularly known as Time Advantage.
Rishadan Port serves this purpose - if you have spare mana a use of the Port could easily help prevent your opponent from playing his spells that turn - it could easily strengthen your early card advantage and so the Rishadan Port is a natural card in any beatdown deck, just as Wasteland was before it. You rarely need to play with 20 red mana sources in a red deck (not since Ball Lightning/Fireblast/Furnace) and so it makes sense to dilute some of it down with the best colorless lands because the fact they are colorless will rarely hurt you, and you may get great use from their abilities.
This is why beatdown players max four of the Port.
 
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