Just an Idea...

[HoofHoofHoof]

i really like winter orb. i think it could work in a fun suicide-ish black deck where everything is cheap to cast. i could be totally wrong. i'm jotting down this quick skeleton before work tomorrow.

Maybe...
4x Carnophage
4x Carrion Feeder\Festering Goblin\Putrid Imp\Sarcomancy?
4x Dauthi Slayer
3x Drinker of Sorrow (i have no negators...they would be far superior.)
3x Flesh Reaver
1x Delraich (eh...)


4x Dark Ritual
4x Ghastly Demise
4x Duress\Cabal Therapy
2x Contagion
2x Plunge into Darkness
1x Necropotence

4x Winter Orb

1x Lake of the Dead
3x Peat Bog
16x Swamp

There are a lot of directions this could go. Maybe i should stick with shadow creatures primarily? Would Hunted Horrors be too dangerous?

 

[Limited]

Hunted Horrors are definitely too dangerous; a single 1/1 will give your opponent the means to kill it and keep two centaurs as souvenirs.

I also think delraich isn't a good card for this deck; if you have three black creatures, you are already winning and you don't need to turn them into a big trampler.

it might be funny to include stuff like rhystic tutor but its not really necessary..

 

[HoofHoofHoof]

Delraich is definitely too slow, and the Hunted Horror is a bad idea. This is the list i'm going to roll with today, we'll see what happens.

4x Carnophage
4x Sarcomancy
4x Dauthi Horror
4x Dauthi Slayer
4x Flesh Reaver

4x Winter Orb

4x Dark Ritual
4x Ghastly Demise
4x Unholy Strength
2x Plunge into Darkness
2x Contagion
1x Necropotence

1x Lake of the Dead
3x Peat Bog
16x Swamp

 

[DarthFerret]

If you have any kind of funding base for this, and you want to make the orbs work for you, I have a real good suggestion. Try to get some Phyrexian Gremlins from the Antiquities set. They are commons and should not be very expensive. They give you the ability to "shut off" the orb at the end of your opponents turn, untap all of your stuff, including the orb, and then keep hammering on your opponent. Another solution could be phasing, although not sure how to control that really well.

 

[Killerbob]

Phyrexian gremlins + winter orb earns lots of style points! An oldschool combo, which I have actually never seen before (maybe because I didnt play in Antiquities-time). But for a suicide deck, it doesnt seam right.

Winter orb is an ok possibility for any agrodeck. I guess someone figured out that it wasnt good enough for T1-tournamentplay when suicide was hot, but for a casual metagame it could be fine.

 

[HoofHoofHoof]

Thanks for the input.
Phyrexian Gremlins was actually my favorite card when i first started playing.

 

[Homestar]

You know, I don't exactly understand the synergy in Phyrexian Gremlins+Winter Orb, can someone explain that to me?

Maybe if you want to be a total jerk you could use Mole Worms/Mana Leech. =P

 

[Spiderman]

I think DF was thinking you could use the Gremlins like and Icy Manipulator: Use the Gremlins to tap your Orb during your opponent's EOT, then the Orb will not affect you during your untap phase and you can untap all of your lands (and the Gremlins). But apparently there has been some Oracle rulings or errata since 2004 on that:

Oct 4, 2004 - The target artifact can't untap if the Gremlins and the artifact are tapped during untap, even if it is your artifact, and you plan on untapping the Gremlins.

So it looks like using the Gremlins will not work...

 

[Tabasco]

4x Carnophage
4x Sarcomancy
4x Dauthi Slayer
3x Drinker of Sorrow
3x Flesh Reaver

4x Dark Ritual
4x Ghastly Demise/Vendetta
4x Duress
2x Hymn to Tourach
2x Contagion
1x ?
1x Necropotence

4x Winter Orb

1x Lake of the Dead
3x Peat Bog
16x Swamp

Lake of the Dead + winter orb = tech! I suggest running more than one of these if you have them...peat bog is ok but lake is great with orb

I am questioning Plunge...what exactly are you looking for? why sac your critters to look for it? Ghastly Demise seems limited, it seems that you are trying to kill small things anyways so have you considered Vendetta?

Drinker seems like a cheap, but good replacement for Negator

Ravenous Rats/Mesmeric Fiend also seem like good niche cards for the deck as they get rid of a card in opponents hand when they come into play

Hymn is also a beating for your opponents hand...this seems like a discard/ black aggro deck so I hope this suggestions helped

 

[HoofHoofHoof]

Plunge is only there as a relief card in case my aggro beasties become too much for me too handle, especially the Flesh Reavers. After playing with it, i'll probably drop the plunges or only use 1 in the deck, as i've only found myself in dire need of one once or twice.
Hymn fits nicely into any black deck, really, atleast it seems like i play it in every single one of mine...i was considering trading the Contagions out for it, but i'm a sucker for the art on Contagion.
Vendetta is a good idea, too. If i can get my claws on some more Lakes i will, as they do work wonders with the Orb.
As cool as the Rats and Fiends are, my idea is to squeeze as much damage through as fast as possible. They provide really cool disruption, but are sorta useless in combat; the rats become food or a chump block, and the fiend i usually try to keep as far from combat as possible.

 

[Killerbob]

I´m not so sure about this winter orb + lake thing. It looks very fine, but in a deck like this you will play as few lands as possible. You cant afford to weaken the manabase with replacing a swamp for a lake, so the lake will be ekstra land. Do you really need that kind of mana in this deck? Wouldnt you prefer another threat?
But of course, its casual and its fun!


Edit: That gremlinruling ( [Aahz 1994/06/06]) is very weird, and very old. It doesnt make sense that the artifact should "be tapped during untap", but I "plan on untapping the gremlins". It sounds like the judge thinks that "untap" is a phase with different stages -and maybe it was back in 1994, I´m not sure.
Noone has been interrested in this card since. On wizards and starcity theres no help to find. I think they just havent updated the rulings. Theres no reason why you cant play the card as an icy, but I think the ruling was to explain what happened if you tap it in your untapphase.

 

[DarthFerret]

To make the Gremlins work after the Errata, you have two options. During the invasions block, it became really easy to bounce black creatures back to your hand. Bounce the Gremlins on you opponents turn, and you can get the orb back up again. Also, a second alternative is to splash green in and play instill energy. (you can also use a Jandor's saddlebags to do the same). With the Gremlins untapped during your untap step, the orb is free to untap as well.

That is one of the rulings that ruined my winter orb days, until I found the above methods of getting around it. One of my favorite combos, and one of the least used I have seen. (I am the only one I know with 4 Phyrexian Gremlins).

 

[Killerbob]

I checked the ruling in another magic forum. Its ok. It doesnt work, because you check the state of your permanents just before deciding which to untap. At that point the gremlins are tapped, so you cant untap the orb.

 

[DarthFerret]

So just use what I said in the previous post to untap the gremlins on your opponents turn. Works great.

 

[Spiderman]

KillerBob: I'm not sure what ruling you're referring to since the ruling I quoted comes from 2004... just do what these other guys are suggesting

 

[Killerbob]

Where did you find that ruling Spiderman? This is the exact wording of ruling [Aahz 1994/06/06] which can be found on both Crystalkeep and magiccards.info. But anyway, the idea doesnt work, thats for sure.

 

[Spiderman]

I found it on Gatherer using the Oracle search option.

 

[Killerbob]

Interesting. Same ruling, different dates. This probably means that they actually update the rulings now and then, even for cards that doesnt see much play. Very nice.

 

[Spiderman]

I (sadly) keep forgetting about Crystalkeep since it was down for so long before last fall. But I wonder which gets updated first now: Oracle on Gatherer or Crystalkeep? I'm thinking the former since it is maintained by WOTC while Crystalkeep usually updates once a month...

 

[Killerbob]

yes, yes, yes, of couse Oracle is the place to go for rulings. I just never got used to it, probably because it basically does the same thing as the search engines I usually use, it is newer, and not as good in some ways.