Is the CPA... dying?

[Spiderman]

Or just coasting along, to say the least...

Where's the Magic talk? The strategy? Last week there was maybe one post in General a day (or one thread being posted on). Decks are usually by the same people and more than not looking to get them into tourney shape. I feel my games in Gaming are more active than the Magic talk here.

Has most everyone quit and just here for the "coffee house"? Or for those who still play, do you go somewhere else for Magic strategy and discussions? What's up?

 

[Hetemti]

:Just coasting along, to say the most...

Where's the Magic talk? The strategy?
:What's to talk about? All there is to Magic is Three Viable T2 decks, and Blue Taural Excrement (used to be called Type 1). Extended is inactive since DCI banned the fun cards but let the combos keep their keys. Five-Color is now as comboriffic as BTE in the competitive levels, rendering it exactly what it was created to defeat. There is no strategy anymore. Just pay $350 and buy a Magic deck.

Last week there was maybe one post in General a day (or one thread being posted on). Decks are usually by the same people and more than not looking to get them into tourney shape. I feel my games in Gaming are more active than the Magic talk here.
:Gaming?

Has most everyone quit and just here for the "coffee house"?
:I avoid coffee, it does...bad...things.

Or for those who still play, do you go somewhere else for Magic strategy and discussions? What's up?
:I tried to play, but my decks simply can not compete. So, therefore, I quit. I didn't buy Magic cards to lose. I didn't buy Magic cards to win.

I bought Magic cards to play.

The tournament formats are for Winners. The CPA was meant for Players. But Magic is not a game anymore. The Players are being divided into Winners and Losers.

I know what category I fall into.

That's why my startpage in here instead of StarCity.

 

[Spiderman]

But what you mention seems to lean towards tourney or competitive talk. What about decks or strategy that isn't geared towards that, but just a pickup game with friends?

There's a handful of people who offer advice when multiplayer or "not tourney" decks come up. Is the CPA split between these people and the tourney seeking people (of the Magic playing folk)?

There's a lot less Single Card Strategy talk than I would expect for a "player's site". I mean, surely there's cards out there that might not make it in a tourney, but you just want to see in play against your opponent. Like Armageddon Clock or something...

this just puzzles me...

 

[Zadok001]

I dunno. I've noticed it too. But to be perfectly honest, I have no fear of the CPA dying. The chatter in Off-Topic is very compelling right now, I like participating there. The Deck section is running like it always does, and while the upper three forums are unusually quiet, I think that's because there's nothing all that neat in the Magic world right now that we haven't seen before. Kai won another PT, whoop-de-doo.

 

[Spiderman]

Well, maybe I should amend it to...

Is the Magic talk in the CPA dying?

I mean, just because things seem hunky-dory in the Magic world doesn't mean it has to be quiet. Single Card Strategies, Not-Really-Tourney Decks....

I feel of the Magic people active here, it's divided into "tourney" and "not-so-tourney" when it comes to advice and talk and the camps don't really mix.

 

[Zadok001]

That's ok. I think it ends up happening on every message board, to some extent. Check out the MtGNews lobby - Magic? What's that? Look at my neat new Avatar! *grin*

 

[Spiderman]

So it's not just here? Other Magic message boards are experiencing some "downtime" (I guess compared to their usual load)?

 

[rkoelsch]

I think it might just be a phase. Or maybe some sensitive people could not take the discussions that were going on about other items and decided to leave.

 

[Spiderman]

I don't think that's it; not too many if any people have either left or stayed quiet since 9/11. That's the only thing going on now anyways, politics...

 

[Istanbul]

There are no pick-up games anymore. They simply don't happen. Anywhere.

It's the truth. Here, let me present you with a scenario:

Joe decides he'd like to play Magic.
Joe gets together twenty bucks and buys a tournament deck (changed from 'starter deck', what a giveaway) and three boosters.
Joe goes and tries to find people that play Magic.

Scenario 1: The Card Shop
Joe goes to the card shop to look for some pickup games with his new deck.
Joe is laughed at, told that his deck sucks, informed that he needs to spend $300 to buy the power cards in the format.
If Joe was unfortunate enough to buy any older cards, he is informed that they are not worth the cardboard they're printed on.
Should Joe choose to play anyway, any and all 'pick-up games' are people playtesting their tournament decks.
Joe has never even played in a tournament before, so of course he loses every game he plays.
Beaten, humiliated, and told that he needs to spend hundreds of dollars to even *approach* winning, Joe sells his cards off (probably for about five dollars to a shark) and spends the money on a PS2 instead.
End Result: Sony 1, Magic 0.

Scenario 2: Hanging With Friends
Joe goes to hang out with the three or four friends of his that actually play Magic.
Joe's friends have stayed in the game, so they know that there are two kinds of players: Winners, and Losers. Since they still play, they must be Winners.
Joe is not laughed at. However, he IS told that his deck sucks, he needs to spend another $300 to be competitive, etc. This advice is meant to help, but it's the same advice.
Joe is told that older cards can't be played with. If he's unfortunate enough to have bought some, his friends take pity on him and trade him something small for them.
When Joe finally plays against his friends, all he finds are tournament decks. After all, his friends don't want to *lose*, right?
Naturally, Joe loses every game he plays...except those that his friends *let* him win, which is even more demeaning.
Beaten, humiliated, and told that he needs to spend hundreds of dollars to even *approach* winning, Joe sells his cards off (maybe for $10 to a generous friend) and spends the money on a PS2 instead.
End Result: Sony 1, Magic 0.


Fact is, I don't know of any other places one might find 'pick-up' games.

And THAT'S why the Magic talk has died off, Spidey. I love the CPA as a community, but it serves a purpose that doesn't exist: casual Magic.
There is no casual Magic anymore. Sure, variants are discussed...but immediately, the talk is of what the best 'tech' would be.
When I first started Magic, I actually retired a deck because it won all the time. Nobody would ever do that now.

The intrinsic problem is in the mindset of the players. The game doesn't matter anymore. Winning is ALL that matters, and people will do anything at all to win, including all-too-willingly removing all fun from the game. Want proof? Look at High Tide decks. Look at Type 1.

Magic has become a cutthroat game. It's not fun anymore. That's why I collect, but I don't play.

 

[Chaos Turtle]

Isty laments:
There are no pick-up games anymore. They simply don't happen. Anywhere.

Truth. Well, almost the truth. Ironically, I -- who had previously sworn off strictly casual play as being a contest of who can ignore the rules the most, or play the stupidest decks imaginable -- am playing (a little) more casual Magic these days.

Why? Fun new "party" format.

Here: Using Type 1 deck construction rules, take about 800 of your favorite cards (don't forget the lands!) and build a deck. This is called your "fatty" deck, as it is huge and the best creatures in such a format are too.

You can play as many as 20 (or more!) games using the same deck. Just keep setting aside the used cards in a past games" pile, which will become a kind of proxy library for subsequent games.

Special rules:
-No "play-draw" rule.
-Draw two cards per turn.
-Max hand size is 9.
-Start at 40 life.
-The first five turns (for each player) have no Combat Phase.
-After the first game, cards that let you search your library for something instead search the proxy library. Really, you don't want to be searching the other 100-700 cards. (Trust me on this.)
-Searching your library during the first game, or searching your opponent's library ever, involves grabbing a handful of cards off the top and searching them, then shuffle and replace. (You can use this method in later games if you really want, but the Proxy Library" thing is a lot more fun and time-saving.
-Make up your own house rules. I may be forgetting something, but it's strictly casual, so who really cares?
-Battle of Wits is banned. Other such instant-win cards (Coalition Victory, et al) are frowned upon. Sternly.

Use lots and lots of land and mana-fixers (like those awful Homelands filter-lands) and really really big creatures (the little guys will just suck, I'm afraid). The deck will certainly (unless you are a boring old sap) be five colors.

Now, grab you favorite snacks/beverages/other-recreational-substances and get to playing.

The point here is that you can have an evening (or day) of fun fun fun Magic gaming, where every game will be different.

Now some of you may be thinking, "That's the stupidest thing I have ever seen." You know, I thought the same thing. But I tried it once and...it's fun! You have to develop a strategy on the fly, since you have no way really to assure any kind of consistency whatsoever.

This format succeeded in gaining my interest because you really can't break it. At least, I don't think you can, and it would defeat the purpose anyway.

The best part? You can just split your deck into two piles and have an instant series of pick-up games, in the event that your friends lack your foresight and good judgement.

Maybe I'll do a more in-depth study of the...uhm, "format"...when I return from hiatus. Until then, convince your friends to give this little bit of madness a try. You may have to bribe or threaten them.

Enjoy!

 

[Istanbul]

I've tried introducing new formats frequently. The response is a resounding 'NO!'. We want to play formats where we know we can win! Winning is all that matters!

It's almost impossible to even get people to *draft*, these days.

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

Is the CPA dying? No. At least, only insofar as the universe is dying. I'm not saying it will be around that long, but it's not going tomorrow or thereabouts.

I can speak for myself about my role in posting. I do not think that I am posting less now than I was, say, 3 months ago, for any reason other than possibly that it's not summer any more. But I certainly don't think that I'm placing less emphasis on Magic strategy, because I never placed that much on it anyway.
I do regret that the Home-Made Cards forum does seem to be dying. Even the occasional posts by DÛke or FoR are becoming less frequent (and I admit I'm not helping matters very much either). I know most people don't care as much about that, but because it is the only form of Magic strategy discussion in which I take place, I do care.

My advice: For those of you who can, and who seem to be bored with groups that refuse to play casually, find some kid who has never heard of Magic on the Internet and play with the kid - and FORBID that the kid go onto any Magic website. Any. not even wizards.com for release info (in fact, especially not wizards.com). I know that many of you will argue with this, but try it if possible.

It takes a significant creative mind to be satisfied with weird strategy after seeing everything the Internet has to offer.

Look in other places. (Not necessarily at schools, you don't want to be thought a drug dealer.)



And what's wrong with PS2?

 

[Chaos Turtle]

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like a bunch of bores.

Hmm... have you tried getting them drunk first?

 

[Gizmo]

I have generally noted that the Casual Players Alliance has been gradually morphing into the Struggling Tournament Players Alliance.

I`m not sure just how guilty I should be feeling about my role in this, but it strikes me that there are a number of CPA members who have 'broken out' to wider things besides myself, who joined here pretty much when my star was at its highest (downhill all the way, baby, and picking up speed). Im fairly sure this process is also a result of becoming less casual attracting players who are less casual - its a cyclic thing.

The recent glut of decks using rares is VERY bad for interesting deck discussion. Im personally however very surprised and disappointed that the CPA members havent been more inventive with Odyssey - there seems to be a mixture among the membership now of oldies who are content to sit back and chat (as Zadok seems to be happy), and relative newbies who are at least semi tournament-oriented.

The result is little innovation, so lower output - we have a Greater Good fanatic, but where is the Verdant Succession fanatic, or the Holistic Wisdom fanatic, hell even the Chance Encounter fanatic? All we got in that vein were people in fact BITCHING about how poor those sorts of cards were instead of making any attempt to play them (off the top of my head i think Graceful Antelope was the only card where people sat down and tried to make a deck).

Odyssey has PLENTY of interesting and powerful effects that have been included in the set almost specifically to make life interesting for casual players. It seems, however, that the Casual Players Alliance is no longer casual enough to care.


I guess I feel a bit at cross purposes here. I was never the person to do any of that stuff, and possibly by bringing tourney advice/interest to the CPA I`ve been instrumental in leading that shift in interest base. I kind of feel like people are no longer enjoying the CPA the way they used to, and maybe it`s partially my fault (indirectly my fault, as opposed to where I go off on one and have huge fights).

 

[TomB]

Now there's a surprise...

Actually, I think you're being way too hard on yourself. I think the game itself has worked it's way around to being a tourney-orientated scene, as Istanbul said. Even though many of the cards in the last 2 stand-alone sets have seemingly been geared more toward casual play, it's only the serious players (and the newbies/wannabies) who're actually still buying cards, for the most part, so it's only natural that they're only interested in playing to win.

So what does that mean to the CPA? I'm not sure, but what I think is happening is that our little coffee house here has continued to evolve as time has gone by, and it is now more or less a community of Gamers rather than just Magic players exclusively. Since it's been an evolutionary process it's followed the natural course of events, and is as it should be, so I have no problem with it.

 

[Killer Joe]

Tell me again how THIS site came into exsistence?
Something about 3 white Knoght tokens and/or the eratta of it?
I don't really know, I wasn't here, but I remember that this was the place to voice your concerns over broken cards, changed rulings, all kinds of Wiz Co. violations.
Now, I think they're listening and being careful about that kind of stuff and so there's not much to discuss about on those matters.

Maybe.

 

[Spiderman]

Isty: I don't go out to my local gaming shop and try a game of Magic, so I don't know how that scene is. But I have started playing Magic with 3 other people who stopped around Mirage. I stopped around Exodus. Thus, I have about 4-5 more sets worth of cards than they do.

Now, admittedly, I don't play tourney so I didn't pick up 4 Cursed Scrolls or 4 Recurring Nightmares or such, but I play with what I got. And if you've followed my "story" in Decks and how the environment is, at least for multiplayer, they win more than I do.

We've never really gone one-on-one as that would leave people out, although we've played a couple and I posted the decks I used for those also (LD and stuff).

Now, I don't think the majority of active people here are newbies who just picked up a Starter of Odyssey and is looking to play. Most of us have been around for 2-3 years, at least. Since there's hardly any Magic talk, I'm guessing a lot of you have dropped out (and which you said, Isty, some of the Founders, and others) but for those who are still playing, I'm just interested in why there hasn't been a lot of Magic talk.

I don't blame Gizmo or the tourney players; like I said before, it seems there's two camps, those and the MP or otherwise casual people. I would classify Mikeymike and krauschii (sp?) among them and rkoelsch and Griffy as in-between, since they have interesting ideas and decks but are still looking for that "competitive" improvement. Don't get me wrong, probably all decks can use improvement, it's just that some you say you definitely need this for a tourney environment and for others (like my MP ones), you adjust to that environment.

Like YJ says, people moaned and complained that WOTC was not listening to the players. Yet they put out gold cards, they put out more "player-friendly" sets (so people say), yet there's nothing going on! It seems the people who are still around wanted a more balanced tourney environment or something, not players in general. Why do I say that? Because if it was cards in general, people would be talking more about them.

Anyway, like I said, it just seems the Magic talk is nearly non-existent lately.

 

[rkoelsch]

I understand what you are saying spidey. I don't understand why there is a lack of discussion myself. I myself don't usually contribute to single card strategies as I am more interested in cards interact than the merits of a single card. I understand the groupings and I think they are fairly accurate. I wish people would be more diplomatic in their deck tips but I guess some people are as they are. I just want to say I don't know what the solution is. I am just here to contribute in any way I can.

 

[theorgg]

It might also boil down to a matter of time.

Everyone here has been active in the Magic community for at least two years jusabouts, and with age comes(hopfully) more responsibility.

Senior year has come as a large amount of work for me to do, and I'm not able to come to the CPA and other sites for five hours like I use to-- I'm lucky if I get two.

As for playing casually, I can understand that there's a declining market for casual groups, as if a player hits a store at the wrong time, they'll get a totally skewered view of this game. If you played me in a tournament, you might think I'm an arsehole with reguards to the letters of the rules. In a big Chaos Game, however, I rarly get pissy about such trivial things-- as it is trivial in that setting.

After the events of 9/11, many people have become a bit less... well, loose, and that might also tell why this time period is falling off with conversation.