If you have some time and are up for a challenge..

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Modus Pwnens, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    All right, here's the deal. The past few months I have been cubedrafting every now and again, yet this saturday, we will attempt to play the Queen of all formats: Rotisserie Draft.

    [Explanation part, skip to the bottom if you know what a cube is, and know what a rotisserie draft is]
    A Cube is - and I shamelessly copy-paste here - a collection of the most powerful cards ever printed in Magic: The Gathering. This doesn’t mean just Moxes and Mana Drains. This can be any collection of powerful cards. The sky is the limit.
    Simply, the Cube is a limited (usually draft) format where you get to play designer and developer. You get to choose your metagame. You choose all of the cards in it. You designate powerful strategies, archetypes, and you decide which ‘foils’ to those strategies you would like to include.
    The Cube’s exact origins are unknown. The gist of a cube is this: The Cube is the best cards in Magic, stuffed together, to create incredibly fun experiences.

    Now on to Rotisserie draft.
    For this variant you will be drafting a complete set, in this case, the entire cube contents.
    Players will be numbered randomly from 1 to 8. The draft will proceed in the horseshoe pattern starting at player 1 then going around until player 8 drafts. Then player 8 will draft again, and the drafting will continue going the opposite direction until player 1. This will continue going back and forth until the whole set is drafted, although we'll most likely stop at 40 picks.
    When it is time for a player to draft, they may choose any card from the set that has not already been drafted. Once a card is drafted, it cannot be chosen again. Once each player is done drafting they must build a 40-card minimum deck.
    It's very similar to the Ultimate Singleton Draft Challenge, just with a different cardpool

    [/Explanation part]

    Now, I have naturally been studying the cube and from my experience I know of a few archetypes that are either strong or very fun to play. I have created a list of picks for these archetypes (which are mono R aggro/burn, BG Reanimator and Mono U control), yet I'm not sure about the exact order.
    That's where you folks come in. If you are interested, take a look at the lists below, check out the cubes contents (which can be found here:http://mtgcube.googlepages.com/home2) and see what order you would take these cards, if there might be cards I shouldn't take, and if I perhaps missed something.
    There are plenty of other archetypes available (WR, WB and Mono W weenie are traditionally pretty powerful, so are GR aggro, UG control and Bx Midrange), yet I have a preference for the onces mentioned.

    If you have less time you might still enjoy the documented drafts, but don't expect too much of the coverage ;)

    Thanks for reading and for any help you can offer me.
    I started with the best cards, yet I'm certain other people will also draft some of those cards, so I'll definately won't get everything I want.


    Mono R Aggro
    Umezawa's Jitte
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Skullclamp
    Sol Ring
    Strip Mine
    Wasteland
    Crucible of Worlds
    Wooded Foothills
    Bloodstained Mire

    Taurean Mauler
    Avalanche Riders
    Blood Knight
    Flametongue Kavu
    Siege Gang Commander
    Ashling the Pilgrim
    Magus of the Scoll
    Juggernaut
    Epochrasite
    Mogg Fanatic
    Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
    Hell's Thunder
    Blistering Firecat
    Greater Gargadon
    Zo-Zu, the Punisher
    Dwarven Blastminer
    Rorix Bladewing
    Kamahl, Pit Fighter
    Kumano, Master Yamabushi
    Ryusei, the Falling Star

    Word of Seizing
    Banefire
    Lightning Bolt
    Chain Lightning
    Flame Javelin
    Incinerate
    Molten Rain
    Char
    Magma Jet



    BG Reanimator
    Library of Alexandria
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Umezawa's Jitte
    Sol Ring
    Profane Command
    Bitterblossom
    Mind Twist
    Recurring Nightmare
    Survival of the Fittest
    Demonic Tutor
    Vampiric Tutor
    Kokusho, the Evening Star
    Nekrataal
    Shriekmaw
    Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    Inkwell Leviathan
    Bogardan Hellkite
    Deus of Calamity
    Oona, Queen of the Fae
    Spirit Monger
    Simic Sky Swallower
    Genesis
    Tombstalker

    Yawgmoth's Will
    Animate Dead
    Exhume
    Makeshift Mannequin
    Dread Return
    Beacon of Unrest
    Putrefy
    Pernicious Deed
    Damnation
    Slaughter Pact
    Eyeblight's Ending

    Buried Alive
    Bayou
    Overgrown Tomb
    Twilight Mire



    Mono U Control
    Library of Alexandria
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Sol Ring
    Force of Will
    Bribery
    Control Magic
    Treachery
    Sower of Temptations
    Fact or Fiction
    Glen Elendra Archmage
    Keiga, the Tide Star
    Vedalken Shackles
    Venser, Shaper Savant
    Desertion
    Cryptic Command
    Mana Drain
    Counterspell
    Confiscate
    Mulldrifter
    Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
    Duplicant
    Maze of Ith
    Dominus of Fealty
    Clone
    Vesuvan Shapeshifter
    Sakashima the Imposter
    Morphling
    Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
    Ponder
    Brainstorm
    Impulse
    Telling Time
    Man-o-War
    Vendillion Clique
  2. BigBlue Magic Jones

    I used to think I was reasonably smart... I have no idea what you're doing here... :)

    So, you pick a set of 40 cards, 7 other players pick 40 cards... all those cards get thrown into the ring, then each of you drafts 40 cards from that pool of cards?

    So, it's like singleton, except that the cardpool is from each players "cube" rather than from the entire magic cardbase?
  3. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Will the draft be Rochester or booster style? I mean, do the drafters see the entire pool or just a portion?
    Do you draft 1 "set" until it's gone and then draft another "set"?
    This could be very important, since if your set is last to be drafted, you will know what is coming up and can draft accordingly.

    Skullclamp, Jitte and The Evening Star are powerful cards..... Sol ring seems to be a odds on favorite in your "sets".
    BG Reanimator seems like fun.
  4. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    It's essentially our Ultimate draft with a limited cardpool.


    Ransac, cpa trash man
  5. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    How so?
  6. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    What Ransac said: it's similiar to the Ultimate draft, with the only difference being that we can't pick every card ever made, but only those in the cube (~500 cards I believe). We just stop after everyone has made 40 picks, because that'll be more than enough to create a good deck (just like we stopped after 45 picks, drafting every single card would be a pain ;))
  7. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Sounds cool.
    How are the packs created and how does the draft actually go?
    Is it booster draft or some other type?
  8. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    There are no packs, when it is my turn, I have to name a card from this list ((Link) that hasn't been chosen yet. We draft from 1-8 and then back from 8-1, repeat.

    Because we will try to enforce a 10-seconds/pick rule, some preparation is needed ;)
  9. BigBlue Magic Jones

    Who chooses what's in the cube?

    Analyzing what's left in 10 seconds is tough...

    At least it makes sense to me now.

    As far as strategies go, I'd pick things which aren't deck specific early - so you can adapt to what others have chosen, and don't get caught up in an archetype because someone else may hatedraft an essential piece. Then again, don't let that stop you from hatedrafting if need be at an opportune moment! :)
  10. Ransac CPA Trash Man


    Good thinking. That's exactly what I did in this past draft, picking a Mox and Sol Ring in the first two rounds.


    Ransac, cpa trash man
  11. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    Click the link, all the cards in the cube are there, so every available card is known in advance (and I've played with the cube quite a few times, so I know what's in there..)

    What you suggest was my initial plan as well, but I prefer to go in with a main plan, a back up plan, and a desperate plan, seeing what will give me the least competition from other players, and then go with that.
    The thing is now, that if there is to be competition, what cards should I value higher than others, etc.

    Since my position is determined random, there's no way to determine what strategy I'm able to use or which one will have the highest chance of success.

    I'll see if I can make some notes during the draft and report back when we're done =)

    In the mean time, any suggestions?
  12. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    All right, here I'm starting to list the BG Reanimator, as I think it'd be most fun to play this.

    I expect to get 1, maybe 2 cards of my top 5, depending on my position (I expect the first few picks will go LoA, Top, Jitte, Sol Ring, then maybe Sword of Fire and Ice, FoW, but these are uncertain..) Bitterblossom might be safe, but is extremely good when paired with the Nightmare..
    Profane Command and Mind Twist are just unreal, then I need the best fatties and some tutors to assemble my reanimation pieces. Removal is important, and the actual reanimation spells can most probably be left on the board for a while, since I'll only draft this if nobody else is going towards a reanimation strategy.

    Any thoughts on this pickorder?

    BG Reanimator
    Library of Alexandria
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Umezawa's Jitte
    Bitterblossom
    Sol Ring
    Profane Command
    Mind Twist
    Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    Demonic Tutor
    Vampiric Tutor
    Kokusho, the Evening Star
    Shriekmaw
    Pernicious Deed
    Damnation
    Slaughter Pact
    Recurring Nightmare
    Nekrataal
    Oona, Queen of the Fae
    Bogardan Hellkite
    Makeshift Mannequin
    Spirit Monger
    Tombstalker
    Animate Dead
    Dread Return
    Beacon of Unrest
    Survival of the Fittest
    Inkwell Leviathan
    Deus of Calamity
    Simic Sky Swallower
    Genesis
    Eternal Witness
    Yawgmoth's Will
    Exhume
    Putrefy
    Eyeblight's Ending
    Buried Alive
    Bayou
    Overgrown Tomb
    Twilight Mire
    Birds of Paradise
    Llanowar Elves
  13. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    Well, short story as it's 1:20 AM and I'm about to go to bed, I was randomly placed in fourth position, which wasn't that good, but first picks went Sol Ring, Umezawa's Jitte, Library of Alexandria so I got Sensei's Divining Top. The person right after me went straight for Survival of the Fittest, while number 7 picked Recurring Nightmare, so the reanimation plan went straight out of the window ;)

    Will tell something about my deck later (which was pretty awesome :D), went 2-1 with it, which wasn't as good as I expected, but was very reasonable, as everyone had an insane deck.
  14. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    Ah, who doesn't love a quadruple post :D

    As I said, I first picked Sensei's Divining Top, and when the cards came back I picked up Control Magic and Force of Will. From there I was able to get most blue control magic effects and counterspells. My complete list (in no particular order):

    Sensei's Divining Top
    Pithing Needle
    Forcefield
    Powder Keg
    Vendilion Clique
    Fact or Fiction
    Clone
    Ponder
    Sower of Temptations
    Control Magic
    Vedalken Shackles
    Bribery (mvp)
    Treachery
    Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
    Oona, Queen of the Fae
    Glen Elendra Archmage
    Morphling
    Cryptic Command
    Counterspell
    Mana Drain
    Force of Will
    Desertion
    Draining Whelk

    First match I played against Thomas, who was in 8th place, and started drafting Strip Mine and Crucible of Worlds, followed up with Gifts Ungiven and Academy Ruins into Tinker Colossus. Wasn't much of a match, as I managed to go turn 5 Bribery for Inkwell Leviathan (which is a 7/11 Shroud, Islandwalk Trample man from Conflux) twice, first game I even cloned that on turn 6 :D.

    Second match was tougher, against a WR Weenie aggro deck. I won the diceroll, so his second turn Slith Firewalker was quickly outclassed by my Vedalken Shackles, and even his Sword of Fire and Ice couldn't fight that. He conceded when I stole his firewalker when he attacked, then untapped for Treachery on his only guy (A Blood Knight), then Bribed his Exalted Angel.
    Next game was a bit silly, with me mulliganning to 4 and he quickly killing me with turn 3 morph, which obviously was the Angel again, but I never saw a fourth land so couldn't Clone it to stay alive.
    Third game I probably should have mulliganned, but didn't want to risk another 4-card hand, so I kept a pretty slow hand, and was almost able to stabilize, but then he went crazy with Incinerate, Flame Javelin and Fireblast which I couldn't stop.

    Last match was epic, against a reanimator deck.
    His first play was Solemn Simulacrum, which I Sowered. He played Necrataal, which I Control Magicced. He then played Mortify on my Control Magic and a Murderous Redcap, which made my Powder Keg a lot better, since my Vedalken Shackles managed to keep his guys at home. In the end I managed to Stabilize at 1 life, countering his Recurring Nightmare which would have animated his Redcap with my Draining Whelk. He got Kokusho in play, but I could chump it indefinately with Meloku tokens, and he had no way in his deck left to kill it, so in the end I took him down from 20 to 0, winning only because I had the Divining Top to draw into the key spells when I had to (oh, and Fact or Fiction is pretty good when digging for counterspells as well ;)).
    Second game was less exciting, I believe he conceded when I bribed his Angel of Despair and could counter everything relevant he tried to play..

    Cubing definitely is a lot of fun, like an Ultimate Draft in real life (so speed is a bit higher ;)) and I can recommend it to any of you.
  15. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    Glad you had a lot of fun!! Now you recognize that one can NOT have a set game plan from the start of the deck they're going to play. You adjusted well from your original plan and that pays off. Drafting incognito and recognizing how everyone is drafting is a great way to create dominance.


    Ransac, cpa trash man
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Library has like no synergy with reanimator decks anyway.
  17. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    I definately don't agree with you there. Library will pretty much win any game by itself, regardless of the deck you're playing, if you have it in your starting hand, but usually I wait with drawing until the end of my opponents turn. When I play reanimator, I have no problems drawing card number 8 during my own turn, then just discard a fatty at the end of the turn..
  18. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Heh, I drafted Library in our first Singleton game but never really got it going...
  19. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    Um..... Zoo and RDW will probably disagree with you.....


    Ransac, cpa trash man
  20. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Hm. Maybe I'm overestimating these decks, as this is a limited format rather than a constructed one. But discarding a card by exceeding maximum hand size on purpose seems quite suboptimal for a reanimator deck. I mean, I've done it, but I'd very much prefer not to, as it's serious tempo disadvantage. Incidentally, that's the exact same reason I wouldn't play Library in a deck that's supposed to be dropping cards and setting up for a board position to support a killer combo.

    Yep. Or any deck in Vintage that isn't straight control.

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