I blew it and would appreciate help.

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Ransac, Sep 20, 2002.

  1. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    I took my judges test a few weeks back. Just forgot to post about it.

    I failed the level 1 test by 3 points(about 15 points higher than how the average first-timer does). I'm elligible to retake the test in about 2 1/2 months, but in the meantime, I need to study. Does anybody have any advice on a good way to study for the test besides just reading the rules over and over again?

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  2. theorgg Slob


    Take the Delphi. Several times. With and Without the rulebook printed out beside you.

    Take the rest of the tests.

    Hope WOTC screws up and lets you get in even though you failed by one question... err...

    Well, I thought I did...

    And good luck on the second test. It's not the same one, and I hear it's harder.
  3. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Taking the test just for kicks.
    #1 - 4 - Y/N - 3 out of 4
    #5 - 8 - Y/N - 2 out of 4 (ouch)
    #9 - 13 - Y/N - 3 out of 5 (jeez)

    Man, I'm not as good as I thought.
    Oh, Question 11 is WRONG.
    "Can you Misdirection a Duress?"
    "No." (It targets your opponent!)
    "Your answer is wrong. You can, but you have to choose the opponent of its caster."
    In other words, yes, you can Misdirection a Duress, but to no actual effect. :p

    ...man, the multiple choice ones are TOUGH...

    Let's see what I get for 14-18...
    #14 - 18 - Multi - 4 out of 5!
    Wow! Let's see how I do with the next set.
    #19 - 24 - Multi - 4 out of 6
    Not too shabby. Next...
    #25 - 29 - Multi - 2 out of 5
    Not fair! One of the questions, the last one, didn't HAVE the right answer!
    #30 - 34 - Multi - 1 out of 5
    Ouch. Ouchouchouch.

    Okay, I am noticing several answers that are flat-out WRONG in this test. Sorry, I no longer put much stock in it.

    If you play Celestial Dawn (turns your lands into Plains), then Contamination (when you tap a land for mana, it makes B instead of its original type), tapping one of your lands makes black mana, not white.

    Oh...and if I play Humility, then Death Pit Offering, then Aether Flash, my creatures end up as 3/3s with 2 damage on them during my turn. Death Pit Offering is a static effect that always applies, AFAIK.
  4. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Okay, now I KNOW the test is wrong.

    Say you're at 1 life.
    You Soul Feast yourself. (Target player loses 4 life. You gain 4 life.)
    You die.
    Not according to the test.
  5. theorgg Slob

    Actually, that Soul Feast trick does work.

    Remember that being at zero doesn't mean an auto-loss. It's an auto-loss as soon as State Based Effects are checked. Since the Soul Feast resolves(you loose four, putting you at -3, then gain four, putting you back at one). The next time somone gets priority, you're above one life. Odd? yea. But it's just like the Misdirecting of a Duress. It's pointless, but then again, it is Ransac's ilk who would want to do that type of thing.

    I know that a few of those questions need updating, but the test is pretty current-- belive it or not. It hasn't been updated in probably eight months, though... so some of the answers are indeed wrong.
  6. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    The Humility/Death Pit Offering/AEther Flash answer was correct. You apply the Humility after the Death Pit Offering because it has a later timestamp.

    418.2. Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so as the permanents come into play. They don't wait for the permanent to enter play and then change it.

    418.5d A continuous effect can override another.
    EXAMPLE: Two enchantments are played on the same creature: "Enchanted creature gains flying" and "Enchanted creature loses flying." Neither of these depends on the other, since nothing changes what they affect or what they're doing to it. Applying them in timestamp order means the one that was generated last "wins." It's irrelevant whether an effect is temporary (such as "Target creature loses flying until end of turn") or global (such as "All creatures lose flying").

    EDIT: In your scenario, the Death Pit Offering would be applied after the Humility since it has a later timestamp. But that wasn't what the original question was asking.;)

    (- Steve -)
  7. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    I can see it now.

    I'm Judging an Extended tournament.
    I get called over to handle a problem.
    Humility, Death Pit Offering, and Aether Flash are in play.
    The guy who controls them just played a creature.
    His opponent insists it dies.
    He insists it lives.
    I ask which entered play in which order.
    His opponent says Humility entered play first.
    He says Death Pit Offering entered play first.

    And I decide...what, and HOW do I make the decision?
  8. train The Wildcard!!!...

    To get a strong sense of rulings I go to 2 places - here and the MTG.com message boards...

    Of course the boards piss me off enough to post most of my questions here... with the CPA...

    The Pojo site has a level 2 that regularly answers questions and most of the time posts the rule determining the answer. He keeps all his rulings archived so you can look many of them up...

    The Boards are not always correct, but they have moderators/Netreps, that straighten most things out...

    Posting here with questions also isn't a bad idea - maybe someone like EB or Puff or CT could post a question each day that would require a little rules research... That way we all have a chance to become more familiar with the rules.

    This would of course require askng them very nicely...

    EB, Puff, or CT, would you all mind posting questions for us to answer???? I could pay you with Coat!!!...:cool:
  9. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    To train: I've posted a rules puzzle before (the Natural Emergence one). If you would like me to do it again (and EB and CT don't mind taking a backseat), I'll definitely think up some new ones.

    To Istanbul: That's a real tricky situation. I would suggest consulting with the spectators to find out which one came into play first. If the spectators can't agree, then you get to make a judgment call. And you may want to remind the players that lying to a judge is a very bad decision. It could be a Cheating-Fraud penalty, which means DQ.*

    EDIT: *Only if they were intentionally trying to mislead you.

    (- Steve -)
  10. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I'll try to come up with some also... I don't do anything alse at work!!!

    Thanks Puff!!!:D :D :D
  11. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker


    ...and people ask me why I avoid sanctioned tournaments...


    "..sounds good to you? Good, we'll agree on that..."
  12. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Ferret - Join the club. :p I don't get to play in tournies IRL anymore, but I don't miss it much.
  13. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    FERRET?! Dude! You're still alive?! :eek:

    What's the benefits of being a judge other than bragging rights?
  14. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Ferret's been pretty active in the Off-Topic and Political forums...
  15. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    I never go there. :D

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