"Here's wher you can store your weed"

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Ferret, May 19, 2003.

  1. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Here's something that's made a couple of threads on FFI's forums very active:

    Recently, Canada decided to legalize marijuana for quanities of less than 15 ounces. This should bring millions of Americans to Canada when they want to toke up.

    However, the real issue is that now many Americans are starting to think that this kind of legislation should be put into effect here in the states. Personally, I think this is a bad idea. We have a big enough problem w/ alcohol. Taking pot out of the hands of the drug dealers sounds good - but, then it's in the hands of something even worse: pharmaceutical companies and tobacco companies...

    ...and of course, most of the proponents for legalization are just potheads that hate having to waste a trip across town (or now across the border) to score more weed...


    "let the games begin"
  2. Svenmonkey Pants Chancellor

    I'm all for legalization of drugs, and I've never even seen the stuff. I just think that that's one thing that could do a struggling economy a lot of good and not harm anyone except the people who're already dope fiends.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again unless I'm killed fairly soon, if you want some drugs, you're going to get them whether they're illegal or not. So why not have companies make the stuff and have the government tax it and boost the economy?
  3. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    I just feel that we'd be exchanging one evil for another...and the worst part is that the government would probably love the concept of legalized drugs.

    Imagine: millions of people addicted to a new substance that can be sold by huge corporations, regulated by the ATF, and capable of turning Americans into even more-mindless sheep...


    "I've never been carjacked, so I don't feel it should be a capital crime..."
  4. Mazzak Stylemongering Protodeity

    Bah. I say, if people want to let themselves get hooked on a substance, then they can go ahead, and die. Legal drugs= less idiots & more tax money. Good for all except the bottom of the mental barrel.
  5. Shiro Time Devourer I have returned!

    In many places in Canada, they have decided to restrict the smoking of tobacco.
  6. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I don't know nearly enough about legalizing drugs, but Piers Anthony's series Bio of a Tyrant King dealt with it and I thought made some good points (which Svenmonkey effectively echoed).

    If the murder rates go down because there won't be any more turf wars and whatnot, I think that's worth the trade-off. Besides, it's a person's right to get addicted and be turned into mindless sheep :)
  7. whuppinboy The whup-meister

    #1: Pot is not addictive - medically and scientifically proven

    #2: Cigarettes kill more people daily than alcohol and drugs combined

    #3: Pot will never be legalized fully even though the government owns over 5 pot farms that cover more than 100 acres each.

    i wholeheartedly believe that if you want to win the drug war you legalize every kind of drug known to man, set up government owned shops and sell it.

    do you know how many millions of our tax dollars go towards the War On Drugs? Have you even seen a difference between now and then? it used to be billions when Reagan was in office but the War On Drugs has been thrown into the backseat before the recent terrorist scandal.

    i need to dig up my paper on wrote on the legalization of marijuana and let y'all read it. Very eye opening when you do your research and not just jump after your feelings on a generic topic.
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Where's your info for this?
  9. whuppinboy The whup-meister

    i wrote this maybe 4-5 years ago, i am a former toker and coke fiend so i might have a tad bit of bias going on here :p

    Marijuana: The Secret Battle

    Imagine that one of your family members are terminally ill, it doesn't matter which member, just imagine it's someone that is extrememly important to you. Take it one step further, imagine the only drug out there that could either cure this family member or at least ease their terrible suffering, is considered to be an illegal narcotic by the federal government.

    What would you do? Would you attempt to obtain this drug by any means necessary? Would you try to rally others around you that believe in your cause? Or should you attempt to excerise the democratic right that is constitutionally yours by voting to pass legislation that would support your beliefs?

    Do you want to know what this "wonder" drug is? Is it made in some laboratory at the F.D.A.? The answers respectively are: marijuana and even though this is a naturally grown drug, the F.D.A. has at least 10 "pot farms" under their control.

    There is legislation that has been passed, blocked, and entire
    elections stopped supporting the possession, use and distribution of marijuana for gravely ill patients. The government, playing the proverbial "Big Brother", will not recognize the fact that we, the people, realize the benefits of medicinal marijuana. We have heard or knew from firsthand experience that marijuana offers relief for arthritis pain, nausea from chemotherapy treatments, muscle spasms and glaucoma. We saw appetites
    restored to AIDS and cancer patients who smoked joints or nibbled on marijuana brownies. Bodies gained strength and patients were better able to fight disease.

    Thanks to members of the "Big Brother" club: Attorney General Janet Reno, drug czar Barry McCaffrey, Congressman Bill Bennett and by and far the most important member, President Bill Clinton. They have helped to note that marijuana remains classified by the federal government as a Schedule I drug. This means that it cannot be prescribed because it has no known medical uses. But wait! We have cocaine, morphine and heroin ! These are
    classified as Schedule II drugs and can be prescribed by your very own family doctor! Did you know that after trying any of these Schedule II drugs just once, you can become "hooked"? It's been medically proven.

    What hasn't been medically proven is that after smoking one joint, or five, you become "hooked". Which of these drugs appears to be the most harmful to you?

    Until some kind of legal accommodation makes it possible for patients to receive marijuana without violating the law, there is only one solution that has been presented. That solution is called "buyers' clubs". Disagreements within the legalization movement for medicinal marijuana on the value of these clubs resulted in two distribution models after the passage of the
    highly controversial Prop 215 in California (this referendum approved the possesion and use of marijuana for extremely ill patients).

    One such model is based on a conventional delivery system for
    medicine: A patient visits a buyers' club (ie: pharmacy), where he or she presents a note from a physician, certifying that the patient has a condition for which the physician recommends cannabis (ie: prescription). The proprietor of the club (ie: pharmacist) fills the prescription and the patient leaves to use the medicine, presumably at home. This model preserves the
    medical profession's authority to decide who shall use a medicine and for how long. The pharmacy provides a source, in this case a non-profit one, for the medicine. If the doctor and the pharmacist behave ethically, only those who have a medical need for marijuana can receive it. In turn, patients now have a reliable source for the drug, relieving them of the stress of buying it
    on the street or secretly growing their own.

    The second distribution model resembles a social club more than it does a pharmacy. The dispensing area is plastered with medicinal marijuana offering types, grades and prices. Large rooms are filled with brightly colored posters, lounge chairs and sofas, tables, magazines, etc., etc. While some people remain only long enough to buy their medicine, most will stay to smoke and talk. There are animated conversations, laughter and music. The atmosphere is informal, welcoming and warm, providing support for patients who may be socially isolated and have little opportunity to share concerns and feelings about their illnesses.

    Yet the importance of the social aspect of these buyers' clubs cannot be underestimated. It is becoming increasingly clear that emotional support, contacts with friends, family, co-workers and others, plays a salutary role in battling many illnesses. This kind of support improves the quality of life and there is growing evidence that it may even prolong it. In one study, socially
    isolated women were found to be five times more likely to die from ovarian and related cancers than women with networks of friends and families. In another study, women with breast cancer were found to be fifty percent less likely to die in the first few months after surgery if they had confidants. In a four year study of 133 breast cancer patients, married women had a longer average survival time as opposed to single women. (http://www.natlnorm.org)

    Researchers have consistently found that support groups are
    effective for patients with a variety of cancers. Participants become less anxious and depressed, make better use of their time and are more likely to return to work than patients who are given only standard care, regardless of whether they have serious psychiatric symptoms. There is evidence that even brief supportive therapy can have benefits that last for months. Some
    have made the controversial claim that more participation in support groups can keep cancer patients alive.

    One of the properties of marijuana is that when used, it makes people tend to be more sociable and find it easier to share difficult thoughts and feelings. If there is even a shred of truth to the idea that talking about the stress, setbacks and triumphs in the battle against an illness can help a patient cope and recover, it is clear that these buyers' clubs models provide the best environment for the dispensing of medicinal marijuana.

    Unfortunately, we live in such a culture that considers these models a public nuisance and criminalizes a compassionate form of caring out of loyalty to a symbolic war on drugs. It's a holy war and it is increasingly becoming about power, and that includes the power of various Beltway bureaucrats to enforce their will
    against the will of the people. The greatest casualty of this war may be democracy.

    In 1996, voters in Arizona and California went to the polls and in
    smashing victories, told Washington that federal drug policies, at least as they applied to marijuana for sick people, were wrong. From "Reefer Madness" to "Zero Tolerance", to Nancy Reagan and her "Just say NO" to the Partnership for a Drug Free America's antidrug sound bites ("this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs). The demonization of marijuana has gone too far. America wants a common sense drug policy, one that allows

    The greatest example of this wanting for more compassionate laws for medicinal marijuana happened in California and Arizona. Californians voted for Prop 215 and by a sixty-five to thirty-five percent margin, approved the medical use of marijuana. In Arizona, a solid majority of sixty-five percent of the voters approved the rights of doctors to prescribe a range of drugs, including marijuana and LSD, for terminally ill patients.

    What was the federal governments response when the votes were tallied? Total denial was their reaction. According to drug czar General Barry McCaffrey, the votes sent a "disastrous message to young Americans that marijuana is good for you, we view this as part of a national strategy to legalize all dangerous drugs. It's a libertarian's strategy that says, 'Let people do what they wish and we'll treat the wounded.' There is not a shred
    of scientific evidence that shows smoking marijuana is useful or needed. This is not science. This is not medicine. This is a cruel hoax that sounds like something out of a Cheech and Chong show." (Playboy, April 1999)

    He threatened to send federal agents after any doctor who acted on the will of the people. And taking a cue from our favorite communist witch-hunter Joe McCarthy, he tarred those who disagree with prohibition as "A carefully camouflaged, exorbitantly funded, well-heeled elitist group whose
    ultimate goal is to legalize drug use in the U.S." (http://www.natlnorm.org)

    In English, he discreetly called the voters of California and Arizona members of a secret society whose goal is to bring America into a moral and social state of degradation. But these voters, General McCaffrey failed to note, were the people next door who helped put him in office. And not to be outdone, Bill Bennett, the republic's first drug czar, claimed that the voters
    had been "duped". (Playboy, April 1999)

    In response to Bill Bennett's comment, politicians in Arizona tried to block the referendum's effect, arguing that voters may not have read the fine print. Local medical-marijuana activists renamed their group "The People Have Spoken" and tried again. In November of 1998, voters rejected a measure that would have gutted the earlier referendum. By an easy majority, they restored the language and intent of their campaign.

    They are not alone. In Alaska, voters passed by a 59-41 margin, Ballot Measure 8, which would allow patients to possess up to one ounce of cannabis or to cultivate three marijuana plants. Those in need of medical marijuana could resister for ID cards indicating their status. (http://www.natlnorm.org)

    In Nevada, a majority of voters (59 percent) responded positively to an initiative that would allow patients to use marijuana under supervision of a doctor. (http://www.natlnorm.org)

    At Washington state, 59 percent of voters passed Initiative 692,
    which would permit patients to maintain a sixty day supply of marijuana. (http://www.natlnorm.org)

    Oregon: 55 percent of voters passed Measure 67, permitting the
    medical use of marijuana. As well, 67 percent defeated Measure 57, an attempt to recriminalize simple possession. (http://www.natlnorm.org)

    The biggest and surprisingly, the most unheard of scandal happened right up north from us in the country's capital, Washington D.C. Voters considered Initiative 59, which would allow legalized possession and distribution of marijuana for medical purposes. Prior to the election, Congressman Bob Barr attached a last minute amendment to an appropriations bill. Barr declared that the District of Columbia, whose budget is controlled by Congress, could not use federal funds to conduct the
    medical marijuana ballot (the ballots had already been printed. Because of Barr's amendment, election officials could not legally pay the printer). Exit polls suggested that nearly 80 percent of voters supported the initiative, but no count was released by the city. The exact results were locked in a computer. The district's election board, afraid of violating the congressional fiat, would not pay for the estimated $1.64 worth of labor it would take to tabulate the results. Activists presented Barr with a check
    for the amount but he refused the funds.

    Congress had blatantly tried to stop an election. Failing that, it
    managed to silence 137,523 voters. The district filed a lawsuit, as did the ACLU. John Ferren, lawyer for the district, called the denial of the vote "an offense to us as human beings. Every single moment this vote is not counted is an injury to you, to me, to everyone in this room." (http://www.natlnorm.org)

    Congress retaliated by passing an appropriations rider that forbade the district from any legal action.

    This contentious legal battle still rages on across the U.S. In the
    summer of 1998 Oakland, California designated the employees of the local cannabis club as officers of the city. This inspired political move uses a section of the Federal Controlled Substances Act and grants buyers for the cannabis cooperative the same protection as undercover narcs (who just happen to buy and sell drugs as part of investigations) have from possible
    prosecution. The club remains open still to this day in defiance of a federal judge's order to close.

    God Bless America.
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Two sources? One of which, the website, seems already biased towards legalization (inferred from the paper, not actually going there)? Hmmm...

    I still missed the part about the gov't owning pot farms...
  11. whuppinboy The whup-meister

  12. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Oh, okay... your statement is very misleading. It says to me that there are gov't sanctioned pot farms which the gov't is actively cultivating, despite their stance on the war on drugs.

    All the article is saying is that people are going onto gov't park land and making pot themselves. So yeah, technically the gov't owns the farms just because they're on its land, but they are getting rid of it when they find it. I'm sure if there was enough money to police all the parks 24/7, there wouldn't be this problem :)
  13. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Get all the Democrats out of office, and this shouldn't be a problem...
  14. whuppinboy The whup-meister

    heh Spidey, it's actually true, i just can't access the sites i need to from work to post the appropriate linkage, that link i posted before was a bad one, my apologies.

    hell, we need to remove democrats and republicans and go with all independants ! Jesse Ventura and Ross Perot all the way babay !
  15. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Even though I'm from Texas...

    "I have to vote nay ont he Perot Idea..."

    Now if you want Joe Montana in office...

    "You've got my vote!...":D :cool:
  16. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I'll just wait until you post the link then :)
  17. EricBess Active Member

    I'm with Spidey. I see no evidence to support many of the claims. In addition to the government running pot farms, I'd like to see evidence to back up this claim:
    Now, I've heard a lot of people say that there is no evidence that proves that it is addictive, but I've never heard anyone say that there is proof that it isn't. That's a pretty big leap in my book.

    And yes, some medicines are addictive. That's why they are controlled by doctors whose job it is to cation the users of these medicines and to determine if the need outweighs the risks. I suppose if medicinal marajuana becomes legal, that will theoretically be the case with it as well. However, from what I've seen, you've got a lot of so-called "doctors" just waiting for you to say the word so they can "prescribe" it to themselves and their friends.

    Not that this doesn't happen with other drugs, it just seems to be more apparent here.

    Plus, popping a pill doesn't affect the ambient environment like smoking does. Second hand smoke is bad enough without having second hand marajuana smoke.

    You say that nicotine is addictive, as is alcohol, and marajuana should be legal because it's no more addictive (less so) than these. I say that's a strong argument to ban smoking and alcohol, not the other way around. I do agree that money talks, though, which is the reason why smoking and alcohol have never been effectively dealt with in this country.
  18. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Seeing how all things are going down here in Texas and some other states, with the segregation of smoking and non... I think the voice of the majority will eventually overcome the money aspect.

    "Just stand your ground and let them know what you think... wait a minute... those aren't water guns!":eek:
  19. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Crackers in this area of the U.S. are like the spotted owl...

    shows how clean this area is.
  20. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Marijuana affects your coordination and reflexes. Imagine: hundreds of people on the road totally stoned. In some states like Florida and California the drivers are bad enough and thousands of people die in auto accidents every year. Now, take away the reflexes of everyone and we'll have even more accidents and more problems. In a nutshell, crime will not go down - it'll just change forms.

    Now, already you're formulating arguments about alcohol and driving. Well, there are some pretty strict laws about that now. We're going to have to come up w/ a whole new set of laws to enforce to deal w/ driving while stoned (DWS?).

    Next thing we're going to have to deal w/ is the domino effect. Once MJ is legalized you're going to hear people say "Why not legalize Ecstasy? It's not addictive and it's harmless." Of course, if causes quite a few deaths every year...but, we've legalized one drug why not do them ALL?

    This isn't The Netherlands. We don't have a very strict justice system and we have people w/ guns everywhere. Now, introduce legalized drugs into the mix and we're going to be looking at absolute chaos...


    "But, I want to get stoned when I want to! You should legalize them for me and stop infringing on my rights to do as little as possible!"

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