Helcomb County Municipal Lake Dredge Appraisal

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Helcomb County Municipal Lake Dredge Appraisal version 3.1 (current decklist as of December, 2014)

Commander
1x Karador, Ghost Chieftain

Creatures
1x Abyssal Gatekeeper
1x Angel of Despair
1x Apprentice Necromancer
1x Ashen Rider
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Boneyard Wurm
1x Carrion Feeder
1x Dark Confidant
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Ghoultree
1x Golgari Brownscale
1x Golgari Grave-Troll
1x Golgari Thug
1x Greater Mossdog
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1x Karmic Guide
1x Kessig Cagebreakers
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Lord of Extinction
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Nighthowler
1x Phyrexian Delver
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Reveillark
1x Reya Dawnbringer
1x Saffi Eriksdotter
1x Shambling Shell
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Shriekmaw
1x Siege Rhino
1x Spirit of the Hearth
1x Splinterfright
1x Spore Frog
1x Stinkweed Imp
1x Sun Titan
1x Triskelion
1x Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1x Weathered Wayfarer
1x Wurmcoil Engine

Instants
1x Darkblast
1x Entomb
1x Gnaw to the Bone
1x Krosan Reclamation
1x Pull from Eternity

Sorceries
1x Buried Alive
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dread Return
1x Life from the Loam
1x Regrowth
1x Spider Spawning
1x Unburial Rites

Enchantments
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library

Artifacts
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Sol Ring

Lands
1x Barren Moor
1x Bayou
1x Bazaar of Baghdad
1x Command Tower
1x Dakmor Salvage
1x Dark Depths
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Maze of Ith
1x Miren, the Moaning Well
1x Mutavault
1x Orzhov Basilica
2x Plains
1x Sandsteppe Citadel
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Secluded Steppe
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Strip Mine
2x Swamp
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Vesuva
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath

So I've finally decided that I'm doing this. It's a thing that is going to happen. I am going to put together my own Commander deck, with real cards, and it is going to be a dredge deck. I thought about making it a storm deck (because storm is the best), but no, I'm going with dredge. I don't know when I'll be able to finish this or when I'll actually get a chance to play the thing against real people (there might be an opportunity coming up in a month or so) but whatever—it's happening eventually.

However, I need help with this, because I'm really bad at building highlander decks. I'm convinced that it'll work, but I'm fuzzy on the details. I plan to do some testing, but I have to have some basic structure fleshed out before I can tinker with it.

In Vintage, dredge-based decks are fascinating: it's like they aren't even playing Magic anymore, but some other game. These decks rely on Bazaar of Baghdad to initiate a chain of discards and cards thrown from the library into the graveyard, then use their growing graveyard to produce Ichorids and a hoard of zombie tokens through Bridge from Below. They even include Serum Powder to ensure that they can get an opening hand with Bazaar of Baghdad. They're unlike any other decks. Of course, I can't actually do that in Commander, as I don't have access to that level of redundancy. I only get to use one Bazaar of Baghdad, one Ichorid, one Bridge from Below, one Golgari Grave-Troll, etc. And my deck size is 99 cards instead of just 60. But there have been dredge-based decks outside of Vintage too, and there are a lot of other tricks I can use. It's making those concepts work together in a cohesive deck that's the tricky part. So I'm looking for suggestions.

No, I don't know what commander to use yet, but I can narrow it down. The important dredge cards are either black or green, so I need those two colors, and therefore I need a commander that is both black and green. I could go with a third color as well, but not a fourth because there are zero four-color legendary creatures in the game, and five would be a bit silly (also, I associate five-color Commander decks with Hermid Druid shenanigans and I, for one, am swinging for the fences against anyone that brings a five-color Commander deck to the table). So, it's either just black and green or it's black, green, and a third color. That leaves me with the following options...

Golgari Commanders
Glissa, the Traitor: Affordable, but how would I make use of that ability?
Iname as One: Twelve mana? Not going to happen.
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord: Mild synergy with dredge, but not great.
Nath of the Gilt-Leaf: Lackluster for the mana cost, but not terrible.
Sapling of Colfenor: Doesn't seem like it'd be effective.
Savra, Queen of the Golgari: I'd have to work in some way to use those abilities.
Sisters of Stone Death: Eight mana and doesn't seem suited to this.
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave: Well, at least it's cheap.
Varolz, the Scar-Striped: Wrong mechanic, but there is mild synergy.
Vhati il-Dal: Practically useless for this concept, despite how cool Vhati is.

Jund Commanders
Adun Oakenshield: Ability costs too much, but could be useful.
Bartel Runeaxe: Nope.
Darigaaz, the Igniter: No synergy and too expensive.
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund: Seven mana is too much and this isn't a dragon deck anyway.
Kresh, the Bloodbraided: Some synergy, but five mana is pushing it.
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: This isn't that kind of deck.
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper: Synergizes, but five mana is pushing it.
Shattergang Brothers: I don't really see the appeal.
Vaevictis Asmadi: No, no, no.
Xira Arien: Ability costs too much and is a bit of a corner case, but at least she's cheap.

Necra Commanders
Doran, the Siege Tower: I don't know.
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Too little synergy with dredge cards.
Karador, Ghost Chieftan: This synergizes quite well, assuming I have enough creatures in the deck.
Teneb, the Harvester: Six mana is really pushing it, and this doesn't seem like the right deck for that.

Ana Commanders
Damia, Sage of Stone: Seven mana is huge in this kind of deck, but the ability is great.
The Mimeoplasm: Five mana, but could be game-breaking with the right creatures to fuel it.
Vorosh, the Hunter: Six mana is really pushing it, and this doesn't seem like the right deck for that.

I think that's it. So I need to figure out my color scheme. One I know whether I'll have a third color and what that third color is, I can get a better idea for what my card choices will be. Karador and the Mimeoplasm seem like the two commanders with the most to contribute here, but it's actually red that I'd lean toward as a third color for stuff like Faithless Looting, Gamble, Wheel of Fortune, etc. Alternatively, I could try to go two-color, but I'm not sure if two colors are enough here...
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Nothing so far? Well, here are some of the cards I've been considering...

Dredgers:
Dakmore Salvage
Golgari Grave-Troll
Stinkweed Imp
Shambling Shell
Golgari Brownscale
Nightmare Void
Life from the Loam
Darkblast

Dredge enablers:
Bazaar of Baghdad
Extractor Demon
Fauna Shaman
Phantasmagorian
Sylvan Library
Liliana of the Veil
Demonic Tutor
Manabond
Grisly Salvage
Vampiric Tutor
Worldly Tutor
Lion's Eye Diamond
Survival of the Fittest
Greater Good
Entomb

Loam tricks:
Tranquil Thicket
Barren Moor
Thespian's Stage
Dark Depths
Volrath's Stronghold
Vesuva
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Scapeshift
Crop Rotation
Exploration
Crucible of Worlds
Mox Diamond
Worm Harvest

Recursion-based stuff:
Genesis
Reassembling Skeleton
Eternal Witness
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Ichorid
Bloodghast
Nether Traitor
Nether Shadow
Regrowth
Krosan Reclamation
Dread Return
Bridge from Below
Oversold Cemetery

Utility:
Miren, the MoaningWell
Shriekmaw
Dark Confidant
Triskelion
Lord of Extinction
Maelstrom Pulse
Krosan Grip
Abrupt Decay
Pernicious Deed
Powder Keg
Damnation
Nevinyrral's Disk
Garruk Relentless
Leyline of the Void
Helm of Obedience
Innocent Blood
Abyssal Gatekeeper
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Well, I haven't gotten any farther with this, but I'm hoping to put the deck together by Saturday, because I might have a chance to play some Magic then. Building the decklist and acquiring the cards in less than a week is probably not going to happen. But we'll see...

While I don't have a list, I'm not reasonably convinced I know which commander to use. Karador seems like the right choice for this deck. I guess it'll be part Dredge and part Reanimator.

White cards that might work...

Pull from Eternity
Karmic Guide
Qasali Pridemage
Reveillark
Knight of the Reliquary
Weathered Wayfarer
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Saffi Eriksdotter
Angel of Despair
Sun Titan
Gaddock Teeg
Eladamri's Call
Oblation
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Vindicate
Wrath of God
Mirari's Wake
Magus of the Disk
Spirit of the Hearth
Reya Dawnbringer
 

WickedBoy6

Captain of the Atog Army
Karador looks like a really good Commander. Jarad looks like he could be pretty fun, as well as Valorz. Dredge is a really good mechanic for EDH, since you have almost double the deck of a regular constructed. You look like you have a good hangle on things, a list of good cards that work well together. The best thing to do with EDH decks are just construct them, go for some synergy, and playtest. Always make sure you have the mana base, so dual lands - not exactly Bayou, Savannah, and Scrubland, though hats off if you have those - but stuff like the filterlands from Shadowmoor/Eventide, the "Karoo" lands from Ravnica block, Guildgates, Temples, and the shocklands from both Ravnica blocks. Those are REALLY good, since they count as their basics, as well. Obvious mana rocks are ovcious, like Sol Ring, Thran Dynamo, Sisay's Ring.Ur-Golem's Eye, possible Signets and Cluestones. Just like my Bosh Commander deck, best thing to do is build what you think might work, playtest, playtest, playtest, and adjust on the fly.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Karador looks like a really good Commander. Jarad looks like he could be pretty fun, as well as Valorz.
I might eventually change commanders if the Karador concept isn't working here, but I think he's probably best. And I already bought the precon commander deck he comes in, so I'm committed to him for now.

Dredge is a really good mechanic for EDH, since you have almost double the deck of a regular constructed. You look like you have a good hangle on things, a list of good cards that work well together.
Well, the other side of that is that I have a larger deck with only singleton copies of my good dredgers. I can't rely on always getting Bazaar into Golgari Grave-Troll and such. But I think I have it worked out. Even though the deck can't operate the way a 60-card, non-highlander dredge deck does, I can supplement some of the lost consistency with more of a reanimator approach. I'm sure that I'm not the first person to utilize Karador in this way, since it seems obvious that he does well with graveyards full of creatures and that dredge enables this.

The best thing to do with EDH decks are just construct them, go for some synergy, and playtest.
Yeah, I was going to do some digital testing, but I'll have an initial physical version of the deck together pretty soon anyway, so we'll see. Unfortunately, I found out that I will be on the other side of the state for work on the day that I'd hoped to be in Seattle to actually play this against people. I just started my new job, so I knew it was a possibility. I'm bummed out about that, although I guess since I'll be working that day, at least I'll be making money that can later go to finishing off the decklist...

Always make sure you have the mana base, so dual lands - not exactly Bayou, Savannah, and Scrubland, though hats off if you have those - but stuff like the filterlands from Shadowmoor/Eventide, the "Karoo" lands from Ravnica block, Guildgates, Temples, and the shocklands from both Ravnica blocks. Those are REALLY good, since they count as their basics, as well. Obvious mana rocks are ovcious, like Sol Ring, Thran Dynamo, Sisay's Ring.Ur-Golem's Eye, possible Signets and Cluestones. Just like my Bosh Commander deck, best thing to do is build what you think might work, playtest, playtest, playtest, and adjust on the fly.
Yeah, good point. I should be OK on the manabase, although it won't be ideal right away. I have some Revised duals, but apparently I'm missing Savannah, which I didn't realize. I also have some Onslaught/Zendikar fetchlands, including the ones that are relevant for my color combination. So that's a good start, but I may be a bit sparse on the rest of the manabase (pretty sure I have zero shocklands at the moment). I won't be buying Savannah any time soon, but I'm tentatively planning to keep this deck around for a long time, so I may eventually get one (good to have dual lands in general, although Savannah isn't one I'm likely to need for my Legacy decks).

Anyway, I should have an actual deck constructed soon enough. Maybe next week I can get some playtesting in and figure out what, if anything, is working.
 

WickedBoy6

Captain of the Atog Army
Sounds good. The shocklands are about $10-$15, depending on the land and where you look. Sol Ring is surprisingly expensive as hell, despite being reprinted in all of the Commander decks. I've seen Savannah's go for $65, $45 for the squarecut Collector's. I've seen one of those even go for less than $35, but again, not tourney-legal.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Sounds good. The shocklands are about $10-$15, depending on the land and where you look.
Yeah, I just bought a bunch of cards and can't afford to do that all the time, so I'll have to hold off on those. I think I'll get a good idea of how the deck runs and how to modify it without necessarily having an optimal manabase.

Sol Ring is surprisingly expensive as hell, despite being reprinted in all of the Commander decks.
I'm not one of those bigshot deck-pimping people, but I'll be using my Beta Sol Ring because I can. :cool:

I've seen Savannah's go for $65, $45 for the squarecut Collector's. I've seen one of those even go for less than $35, but again, not tourney-legal.
Yeah, as duals go, Savannah isn't so bad. I can understand people refusing to pay $65 for a land, and it is ridiculous, but at least it's not Underground Sea.
 

WickedBoy6

Captain of the Atog Army
...yeah, my oink just clenched seeing the prices of Underground Sea. I'll stick with Watery Grave, thank you. It's one of the cheaper shocks.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
I have physically constructed an initial version of the deck. I was unsure about some of the choices I made to get it down to 100 cards, but I'm going to do more testing before I revise the list...

Helcomb County Municipal Lake Dredge Appraisal version 1.0

Commander
1x Karador, Ghost Chieftain

Creatures
1x Golgari Grave-Troll
1x Stinkweed Imp
1x Golgari Thug
1x Greater Mossdog
1x Shambling Shell
1x Golgari Brownscale
1x Bloodghast
1x Ichorid
1x Nether Shadow
1x Nether Traitor
1x Ashen Ghoul
1x Reassembling Skeleton
1x Extractor Demon
1x Dark Confidant
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Eternal Witness
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Abyssal Gatekeeper
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Tarmogoyf
1x Karmic Guide
1x Reveillark
1x Spirit of the Hearth
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Reya Dawnbringer
1x Angel of Despair
1x Triskelion
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed

Instants
1x Darkblast
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Grisly Salvage
1x Crop Rotation
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Entomb
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Krosan Reclamation
1x Pull from Eternity

Sorceries
1x Life from the Loam
1x Unburial Rites
1x Dread Return
1x Regrowth
1x Call to the Netherworld
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Scapeshift
1x Buried Alive
1x Worm Harvest

Enchantments
1x Bridge from Below
1x Leyline of the Void
1x Oversold Cemetery
1x Sylvan Library
1x Survival of the Fittest

Artifacts
1x Mox Diamond
1x Chrome Mox
1x Sol Ring
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Helm of Obedience

Planeswalkers
1x Liliana of the Veil

Lands
1x Dakmor Salvage
3x Plains
3x Swamp
3x Forest
1x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Dryad Arbor
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Marsh Flats
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Orzhov Basilica
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Barren Moor
1x Secluded Steppe
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Miren, the Moaning Well
1x Mutavault
1x Strip Mine
1x Wasteland
1x Bazaar of Baghdad
1x Maze of Ith
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Vesuva
 

WickedBoy6

Captain of the Atog Army
Looks good. I had to go through about five revisions of my Bosh one before I got it right, and it's STILL waiting for a couple extra cards. It's good for what I need it to be, though, so as I said. Playtesting time, get a feel for what it can do. IT looks like you have a good handle on it, though.

Also, my next Commander deck? It's tribal, it has to do with a creature type I love so much. Can you guess what it is?
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Well, if you're captain of the atog army, I'm guessing Atogatog. The problem is, anyone using a five-color commander is to be eliminated with extreme prejudice.
 

WickedBoy6

Captain of the Atog Army
Actually, I have been meaning to ask if there was a way to change the status, as I had mentioned in one of my return posts that the Atogs aren't happy with me anymore.

WickedBoy6 said:
Former captain of the Atog Army, I had to hand in my resignation after it was discovered that I traded in Mountian Dew and Doritos for Sierra Mist and Garlic Cheese Bread Lay's. So, now, I am currently the peace treaty liaison between the Elves and the Slivers. I hope to one day usher these two tribes into a brave new world of prosperity. One collectively known as the Slivelves.
The Dew is back, and while I tend to dip into Dorito's every now and again, the damage was done. Besides, Reese's are the ****, anyway. I also realized that I gave away the Commander deck in that quote.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Well, I knew this first version of the deck was going to be a rough draft. I haven't changed my decklist quite yet, but I've come to some conclusions about this...

Karador: I'm now convinced that Karador is a very good commander, maybe the very best, for attempting to use a lot of Dredge in Commander. A few dredgings with Stinkweed Imp and I can easily cast this guy. At 3/4, he's not impressive on his own. But his ability is very nice. I could use more creatures that synergize with that second ability, but my dredgers are good with the first one, which was the main concern.

The manabase: May be a bit too low on lands for a Loam deck. I intend to add a few more lands, but I need to figure out which ones. I will be getting a Savannah next time I buy cards, whenever that is. Horizon Canopy would also be good here, although not nearly as amazing as it can be in other formats. Dryad Arbor has surprising utility here.

The dredgers: Working better than I'd hoped. Drawing Golgari Grave-Troll or Stinkweed Imp early on really gets things moving, but I can force it with tutors if necessary. Dredging gives me a chance to get Loam shenanigans going, to get Karador online, to use Knight of the Reliquary, and to use recursion cards in order to find my two-card combos.

The traditional Ichorid plan: This didn't pan out. I'll be cutting several cards. For a Commander deck, I have something reasonably fast that can also put up a reasonable amount of power, but I'm weak on defense, can't outscale everyone else's armies, and I'm rather inconsistent. It may seem out of character for me not to want to play a deck that outraces everyone and goes crazy or one that inexorably reaches a dominant board state, but I'm actually OK, this one time, with going sort of midrange-ish. It's just because this is my first real Commander deck and I want to get a feel for building them. Once I've finalized this thing and gotten a chance to pilot it in some real games, I'll probably look to build something more my style, which will be obnoxious and probably Esper with Oloro or something. Anyway, Ichorid clashes with Karador. Bridge from Below clashes with being in a highlander deck and in being in multiplayer. Dredge still works here, which was what I wanted to find out, but it works differently. I can still sit around milling myself to replace my draws, but I have to focus on creature and land recursion, not on token-generation.

Probable cuts...

Bridge from Below: Without a Leyline of the Void, this will die too quickly to be worthwhile. In a 60-card deck with four of them, it's easy to dredge them into the graveyard and start making an army. I can't count on that here and can't really build around it.

Worm Harvest: That could be a really strong late-game Loam synergy, but I don't have a sufficiently controlling deck to make that an attractive option. I end up with a five-mana sorcery that I don't bother casting because I have better things to do.

Extractor Demon: I realized just how ineffectual unearthing this is in a big multiplayer game with opponents that start at 40 life. I'm unlikely to cast it, so it becomes little more than Ichorid fodder.

Helm of Obedience: Four-mana slots have to do something big to be viable in this deck, and this is really only good with Leyline of the Void or if I get lucky. I don't want to rely on luck that much. It's an artifact and Leyline of the Void is an enchantment, so assembling that two-card combo is difficult in this deck. Also, if people see that I'm trying to assemble that combo, they'll focus me.

Ichorid: Just not as good as in the Vintage or Legacy dredge decks. I have to shift my approach here. Ichorid will very likely be cut.

Leyline of the Void: Inherently weaker than in 60-card decks. Without Bridge from Below or Helm of Obedience, it does little for me. Commander makes getting any individual card harder. Better to just ditch the whole package and focus on what is working here.

Call to the Netherworld: Too situational.
 

WickedBoy6

Captain of the Atog Army
It looks like you have a good hold on how Commander works. It always seems like a good idea to just put in the best of the best, but sometimes, that doesn't work. What may work in Legacy or Modern may as well be another non-basic in Commander. My Bosh Commander went through a LOT of revisions before it got to a suitable state. Hell, I STILL don't feel comfortable with it, and I'm not done yet. I still have a couple of choice cards I want in it before I ca say I'm done, but that's how Commander is: playtest, playtest, playtest.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
I haven't actually had any time for more testing, but I'm making changes now because I'm reasonably confident about the cuts I mentioned earlier and I'm ready to test an updated list, once I get around to it...

Helcomb County Municipal Lake Dredge Appraisal version 1.1

Commander
1x Karador, Ghost Chieftain

Creatures
1x Golgari Grave-Troll
1x Stinkweed Imp
1x Golgari Thug
1x Greater Mossdog
1x Shambling Shell
1x Golgari Brownscale
1x Bloodghast
1x Nether Shadow
1x Nether Traitor
1x Ashen Ghoul
1x Reassembling Skeleton
1x Dark Confidant
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Eternal Witness
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Abyssal Gatekeeper
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Tarmogoyf
1x Karmic Guide
1x Reveillark
1x Spirit of the Hearth
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Reya Dawnbringer
1x Angel of Despair
1x Triskelion
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Weathered Wayfarer
1x Shriekmaw
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Apprentice Necromancer

Instants
1x Darkblast
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Grisly Salvage
1x Crop Rotation
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Entomb
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Krosan Reclamation
1x Pull from Eternity

Sorceries
1x Life from the Loam
1x Unburial Rites
1x Dread Return
1x Regrowth
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Scapeshift
1x Buried Alive

Enchantments
1x Oversold Cemetery
1x Sylvan Library
1x Survival of the Fittest

Artifacts
1x Mox Diamond
1x Chrome Mox
1x Sol Ring
1x Crucible of Worlds

Planeswalkers
1x Liliana of the Veil

Lands
1x Dakmor Salvage
3x Plains
3x Swamp
3x Forest
1x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Dryad Arbor
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Marsh Flats
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Orzhov Basilica
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Barren Moor
1x Secluded Steppe
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Miren, the Moaning Well
1x Mutavault
1x Strip Mine
1x Wasteland
1x Bazaar of Baghdad
1x Maze of Ith
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Vesuva

Changes:

-Bridge from Below
-Worm Harvest
-Extractor Demon
-Helm of Obedience
-Ichorid
-Leyline of the Void
-Call to the Netherworld

+Weathered Wayfarer
+Shriekmaw
+Fleshbag Marauder
+Birds of Paradise
+Avacyn's Pilgrim
+Llanowar Elves
+Apprentice Necromancer

In my previous post, I talked about the cards I wanted to cut. I'll briefly explained my rationale for the replacements. Notably, all seven cards I've put in are creatures and none of them are particularly associated with the dredge mechanic. I concluded that the Ichorid plan wasn't going to work out, so I want to strengthen the Karador plan. Some of my testing showed that I could dredge into casting Karador for WBG easily enough, only to be unable to take advantage of his ability because the creatures in my graveyard were my dredgers or were too expensive to cast. These additions could solve that problem.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
I still haven't had a chance to test this with live victims. But I made some very minor changes...

-1 Abrupt Decay
-1 Plains
-1 Forest
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
+1 Savannah
+1 Horizon Canopy

I needed my third copy of Abrupt Decay for the updated sideboard of the Legacy TES deck. Too lazy to switch back and forth, and seeing that Maelstrom Pulse might be better anyway, I made the switch. If I find that I'd prefer Abrupt Decay, I'll switch back. I also got two lands that would have gone in initially, had I owned them. This change slightly lowers the potential of Knight of the Reliquary in my deck, but I'll stick with it for now.
 

Terentius

The Instigator
I don't really get what makes Dredge good; I'd need to see it in action to understand it. But what about Tombstone Stairwell?
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
The article that I submitted for this week (I didn't send it out until yesterday morning, which may have been too late) is on the topic of "what makes Dredge good." I don't use specific examples because that's the sort of thing that can be found in features matches from tournaments and such. So I took a different approach, which hopefully turned out to be coherent.

My article doesn't talk about my own deck very much, so I'd better finally get around to Tombstone Stairwell, which is a very cool card that I'd love to use if I could. It doesn't work for this deck. The cumulative upkeep makes it ephemeral, I don't have any cards that provide some synergy for the tokens, and I'm often digging too many creatures out of my graveyard for Tombstone Stairwell to become impressive.

My next revision to this deck is probably going to trim the noncreature, nonland cards that do not have built-in recursion. Not all of them, but some of them need to go. This deck can start replacing most or all of its draws with dredging as early as turn one, and usually manages to go into all-out dredge mode after only a few turns. And that means that I'm probably going to see my cards in my graveyard, rather than in my hand. For anything in my deck that's a creature, this is not really a problem. I can use Karador to replay them. For lands, it's a bit more difficult, but I have multiple ways to get at lands in my graveyard. Other card types are harder to play from my graveyard. I have to either have Regrowth in hand and cast it, use Eternal Witness, or Krosan Reclamation and draw into the desired card. For the sake of completeness, here's everything in my deck that isn't a creature, a land, or a card with some form of built-in graveyard usage (generally Dredge or Flashback).

Sol Ring
Swords to Plowshares
Diabolic Intent
Crop Rotation
Buried Alive
Survival of the Fittest
Scapeshift
Eladamri's Call
Sylvan Library
Maelstrom Pulse
Pull from Eternity
Vampiric Tutor
Regrowth
Mox Diamond
Demonic Tutor
Oversold Cemetery
Liliana of the Veil
Crucible of Worlds
Worldly Tutor
Entomb
Grisly Salvage
Chrome Mox

Some of that stuff has to go. I'm just not quite sure which cards yet, nor what to replace them with.
 

Terentius

The Instigator
My article doesn't talk about my own deck very much, so I'd better finally get around to Tombstone Stairwell, which is a very cool card that I'd love to use if I could. It doesn't work for this deck. The cumulative upkeep makes it ephemeral, I don't have any cards that provide some synergy for the tokens, and I'm often digging too many creatures out of my graveyard for Tombstone Stairwell to become impressive.

Ah, yeah. At first glance of Dredge Return I thought you could use it, but you're not even running that card. I run it in my Mono B Zombie deck to combo with Vengeful Dead, Grave Pact, Nantuko Husk, and Undead Warchief, and pay for it with Cabal Coffers.

I'm not familiar enough with many of these cards to offer any good advice (which is the reason I don't comment on many deck posts).
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Ah, yeah. At first glance of Dredge Return I thought you could use it, but you're not even running that card. I run it in my Mono B Zombie deck to combo with Vengeful Dead, Grave Pact, Nantuko Husk, and Undead Warchief, and pay for it with Cabal Coffers.
You mean Tombstone Stairwell, right? I am running Dread Return and probably always will for this deck (the manaless Flashback cost is pretty accessible for such a powerful effect).

And of course Tombstone Stairwell with Grave Pact sounds like great fun.

I'm not familiar enough with many of these cards to offer any good advice (which is the reason I don't comment on many deck posts).
It's not certainly not bad advice. Like I said, I'm a fan of Tombstone Stairwell. It seems like a card that would be very nice to have in Commander games. It's just too much of a departure from what I've already built. Same reason I cut Helm of Obedience. That card is great, but this deck just can't use it to its full potential.
 
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