Helcomb County Municipal Lake Dredge Appraisal

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Oversoul, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Helcomb County Municipal Lake Dredge Appraisal version 3.1 (current decklist as of December, 2014)

    Commander
    1x Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Creatures
    1x Abyssal Gatekeeper
    1x Angel of Despair
    1x Apprentice Necromancer
    1x Ashen Rider
    1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
    1x Birds of Paradise
    1x Boneyard Wurm
    1x Carrion Feeder
    1x Dark Confidant
    1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1x Eternal Witness
    1x Fauna Shaman
    1x Fleshbag Marauder
    1x Gaddock Teeg
    1x Ghoultree
    1x Golgari Brownscale
    1x Golgari Grave-Troll
    1x Golgari Thug
    1x Greater Mossdog
    1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1x Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
    1x Karmic Guide
    1x Kessig Cagebreakers
    1x Knight of the Reliquary
    1x Llanowar Elves
    1x Lord of Extinction
    1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
    1x Nighthowler
    1x Phyrexian Delver
    1x Qasali Pridemage
    1x Reveillark
    1x Reya Dawnbringer
    1x Saffi Eriksdotter
    1x Shambling Shell
    1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
    1x Shriekmaw
    1x Siege Rhino
    1x Spirit of the Hearth
    1x Splinterfright
    1x Spore Frog
    1x Stinkweed Imp
    1x Sun Titan
    1x Triskelion
    1x Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
    1x Weathered Wayfarer
    1x Wurmcoil Engine

    Instants
    1x Darkblast
    1x Entomb
    1x Gnaw to the Bone
    1x Krosan Reclamation
    1x Pull from Eternity

    Sorceries
    1x Buried Alive
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Dread Return
    1x Life from the Loam
    1x Regrowth
    1x Spider Spawning
    1x Unburial Rites

    Enchantments
    1x Survival of the Fittest
    1x Sylvan Library

    Artifacts
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Sol Ring

    Lands
    1x Barren Moor
    1x Bayou
    1x Bazaar of Baghdad
    1x Command Tower
    1x Dakmor Salvage
    1x Dark Depths
    1x Dryad Arbor
    1x Flagstones of Trokair
    2x Forest
    1x Gaea's Cradle
    1x Golgari Rot Farm
    1x Mana Confluence
    1x Marsh Flats
    1x Maze of Ith
    1x Miren, the Moaning Well
    1x Mutavault
    1x Orzhov Basilica
    2x Plains
    1x Sandsteppe Citadel
    1x Savannah
    1x Scrubland
    1x Secluded Steppe
    1x Selesnya Sanctuary
    1x Strip Mine
    2x Swamp
    1x Thespian's Stage
    1x Tranquil Thicket
    1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Vesuva
    1x Volrath's Stronghold
    1x Wasteland
    1x Windswept Heath

    So I've finally decided that I'm doing this. It's a thing that is going to happen. I am going to put together my own Commander deck, with real cards, and it is going to be a dredge deck. I thought about making it a storm deck (because storm is the best), but no, I'm going with dredge. I don't know when I'll be able to finish this or when I'll actually get a chance to play the thing against real people (there might be an opportunity coming up in a month or so) but whatever—it's happening eventually.

    However, I need help with this, because I'm really bad at building highlander decks. I'm convinced that it'll work, but I'm fuzzy on the details. I plan to do some testing, but I have to have some basic structure fleshed out before I can tinker with it.

    In Vintage, dredge-based decks are fascinating: it's like they aren't even playing Magic anymore, but some other game. These decks rely on Bazaar of Baghdad to initiate a chain of discards and cards thrown from the library into the graveyard, then use their growing graveyard to produce Ichorids and a hoard of zombie tokens through Bridge from Below. They even include Serum Powder to ensure that they can get an opening hand with Bazaar of Baghdad. They're unlike any other decks. Of course, I can't actually do that in Commander, as I don't have access to that level of redundancy. I only get to use one Bazaar of Baghdad, one Ichorid, one Bridge from Below, one Golgari Grave-Troll, etc. And my deck size is 99 cards instead of just 60. But there have been dredge-based decks outside of Vintage too, and there are a lot of other tricks I can use. It's making those concepts work together in a cohesive deck that's the tricky part. So I'm looking for suggestions.

    No, I don't know what commander to use yet, but I can narrow it down. The important dredge cards are either black or green, so I need those two colors, and therefore I need a commander that is both black and green. I could go with a third color as well, but not a fourth because there are zero four-color legendary creatures in the game, and five would be a bit silly (also, I associate five-color Commander decks with Hermid Druid shenanigans and I, for one, am swinging for the fences against anyone that brings a five-color Commander deck to the table). So, it's either just black and green or it's black, green, and a third color. That leaves me with the following options...

    Golgari Commanders
    Glissa, the Traitor: Affordable, but how would I make use of that ability?
    Iname as One: Twelve mana? Not going to happen.
    Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord: Mild synergy with dredge, but not great.
    Nath of the Gilt-Leaf: Lackluster for the mana cost, but not terrible.
    Sapling of Colfenor: Doesn't seem like it'd be effective.
    Savra, Queen of the Golgari: I'd have to work in some way to use those abilities.
    Sisters of Stone Death: Eight mana and doesn't seem suited to this.
    Skullbriar, the Walking Grave: Well, at least it's cheap.
    Varolz, the Scar-Striped: Wrong mechanic, but there is mild synergy.
    Vhati il-Dal: Practically useless for this concept, despite how cool Vhati is.

    Jund Commanders
    Adun Oakenshield: Ability costs too much, but could be useful.
    Bartel Runeaxe: Nope.
    Darigaaz, the Igniter: No synergy and too expensive.
    Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund: Seven mana is too much and this isn't a dragon deck anyway.
    Kresh, the Bloodbraided: Some synergy, but five mana is pushing it.
    Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: This isn't that kind of deck.
    Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper: Synergizes, but five mana is pushing it.
    Shattergang Brothers: I don't really see the appeal.
    Vaevictis Asmadi: No, no, no.
    Xira Arien: Ability costs too much and is a bit of a corner case, but at least she's cheap.

    Necra Commanders
    Doran, the Siege Tower: I don't know.
    Ghave, Guru of Spores: Too little synergy with dredge cards.
    Karador, Ghost Chieftan: This synergizes quite well, assuming I have enough creatures in the deck.
    Teneb, the Harvester: Six mana is really pushing it, and this doesn't seem like the right deck for that.

    Ana Commanders
    Damia, Sage of Stone: Seven mana is huge in this kind of deck, but the ability is great.
    The Mimeoplasm: Five mana, but could be game-breaking with the right creatures to fuel it.
    Vorosh, the Hunter: Six mana is really pushing it, and this doesn't seem like the right deck for that.

    I think that's it. So I need to figure out my color scheme. One I know whether I'll have a third color and what that third color is, I can get a better idea for what my card choices will be. Karador and the Mimeoplasm seem like the two commanders with the most to contribute here, but it's actually red that I'd lean toward as a third color for stuff like Faithless Looting, Gamble, Wheel of Fortune, etc. Alternatively, I could try to go two-color, but I'm not sure if two colors are enough here...
  2. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Nothing so far? Well, here are some of the cards I've been considering...

    Dredgers:
    Dakmore Salvage
    Golgari Grave-Troll
    Stinkweed Imp
    Shambling Shell
    Golgari Brownscale
    Nightmare Void
    Life from the Loam
    Darkblast

    Dredge enablers:
    Bazaar of Baghdad
    Extractor Demon
    Fauna Shaman
    Phantasmagorian
    Sylvan Library
    Liliana of the Veil
    Demonic Tutor
    Manabond
    Grisly Salvage
    Vampiric Tutor
    Worldly Tutor
    Lion's Eye Diamond
    Survival of the Fittest
    Greater Good
    Entomb

    Loam tricks:
    Tranquil Thicket
    Barren Moor
    Thespian's Stage
    Dark Depths
    Volrath's Stronghold
    Vesuva
    Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    Scapeshift
    Crop Rotation
    Exploration
    Crucible of Worlds
    Mox Diamond
    Worm Harvest

    Recursion-based stuff:
    Genesis
    Reassembling Skeleton
    Eternal Witness
    Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
    Ichorid
    Bloodghast
    Nether Traitor
    Nether Shadow
    Regrowth
    Krosan Reclamation
    Dread Return
    Bridge from Below
    Oversold Cemetery

    Utility:
    Miren, the MoaningWell
    Shriekmaw
    Dark Confidant
    Triskelion
    Lord of Extinction
    Maelstrom Pulse
    Krosan Grip
    Abrupt Decay
    Pernicious Deed
    Powder Keg
    Damnation
    Nevinyrral's Disk
    Garruk Relentless
    Leyline of the Void
    Helm of Obedience
    Innocent Blood
    Abyssal Gatekeeper
  3. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Well, I haven't gotten any farther with this, but I'm hoping to put the deck together by Saturday, because I might have a chance to play some Magic then. Building the decklist and acquiring the cards in less than a week is probably not going to happen. But we'll see...

    While I don't have a list, I'm not reasonably convinced I know which commander to use. Karador seems like the right choice for this deck. I guess it'll be part Dredge and part Reanimator.

    White cards that might work...

    Pull from Eternity
    Karmic Guide
    Qasali Pridemage
    Reveillark
    Knight of the Reliquary
    Weathered Wayfarer
    Iona, Shield of Emeria
    Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    Saffi Eriksdotter
    Angel of Despair
    Sun Titan
    Gaddock Teeg
    Eladamri's Call
    Oblation
    Swords to Plowshares
    Path to Exile
    Vindicate
    Wrath of God
    Mirari's Wake
    Magus of the Disk
    Spirit of the Hearth
    Reya Dawnbringer
  4. WickedBoy6 Captain of the Atog Army

    Karador looks like a really good Commander. Jarad looks like he could be pretty fun, as well as Valorz. Dredge is a really good mechanic for EDH, since you have almost double the deck of a regular constructed. You look like you have a good hangle on things, a list of good cards that work well together. The best thing to do with EDH decks are just construct them, go for some synergy, and playtest. Always make sure you have the mana base, so dual lands - not exactly Bayou, Savannah, and Scrubland, though hats off if you have those - but stuff like the filterlands from Shadowmoor/Eventide, the "Karoo" lands from Ravnica block, Guildgates, Temples, and the shocklands from both Ravnica blocks. Those are REALLY good, since they count as their basics, as well. Obvious mana rocks are ovcious, like Sol Ring, Thran Dynamo, Sisay's Ring.Ur-Golem's Eye, possible Signets and Cluestones. Just like my Bosh Commander deck, best thing to do is build what you think might work, playtest, playtest, playtest, and adjust on the fly.
  5. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I might eventually change commanders if the Karador concept isn't working here, but I think he's probably best. And I already bought the precon commander deck he comes in, so I'm committed to him for now.

    Well, the other side of that is that I have a larger deck with only singleton copies of my good dredgers. I can't rely on always getting Bazaar into Golgari Grave-Troll and such. But I think I have it worked out. Even though the deck can't operate the way a 60-card, non-highlander dredge deck does, I can supplement some of the lost consistency with more of a reanimator approach. I'm sure that I'm not the first person to utilize Karador in this way, since it seems obvious that he does well with graveyards full of creatures and that dredge enables this.

    Yeah, I was going to do some digital testing, but I'll have an initial physical version of the deck together pretty soon anyway, so we'll see. Unfortunately, I found out that I will be on the other side of the state for work on the day that I'd hoped to be in Seattle to actually play this against people. I just started my new job, so I knew it was a possibility. I'm bummed out about that, although I guess since I'll be working that day, at least I'll be making money that can later go to finishing off the decklist...

    Yeah, good point. I should be OK on the manabase, although it won't be ideal right away. I have some Revised duals, but apparently I'm missing Savannah, which I didn't realize. I also have some Onslaught/Zendikar fetchlands, including the ones that are relevant for my color combination. So that's a good start, but I may be a bit sparse on the rest of the manabase (pretty sure I have zero shocklands at the moment). I won't be buying Savannah any time soon, but I'm tentatively planning to keep this deck around for a long time, so I may eventually get one (good to have dual lands in general, although Savannah isn't one I'm likely to need for my Legacy decks).

    Anyway, I should have an actual deck constructed soon enough. Maybe next week I can get some playtesting in and figure out what, if anything, is working.
  6. WickedBoy6 Captain of the Atog Army

    Sounds good. The shocklands are about $10-$15, depending on the land and where you look. Sol Ring is surprisingly expensive as hell, despite being reprinted in all of the Commander decks. I've seen Savannah's go for $65, $45 for the squarecut Collector's. I've seen one of those even go for less than $35, but again, not tourney-legal.
  7. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Yeah, I just bought a bunch of cards and can't afford to do that all the time, so I'll have to hold off on those. I think I'll get a good idea of how the deck runs and how to modify it without necessarily having an optimal manabase.

    I'm not one of those bigshot deck-pimping people, but I'll be using my Beta Sol Ring because I can. :cool:

    Yeah, as duals go, Savannah isn't so bad. I can understand people refusing to pay $65 for a land, and it is ridiculous, but at least it's not Underground Sea.
  8. WickedBoy6 Captain of the Atog Army

    ...yeah, my oink just clenched seeing the prices of Underground Sea. I'll stick with Watery Grave, thank you. It's one of the cheaper shocks.
  9. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I have physically constructed an initial version of the deck. I was unsure about some of the choices I made to get it down to 100 cards, but I'm going to do more testing before I revise the list...

    Helcomb County Municipal Lake Dredge Appraisal version 1.0

    Commander
    1x Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Creatures
    1x Golgari Grave-Troll
    1x Stinkweed Imp
    1x Golgari Thug
    1x Greater Mossdog
    1x Shambling Shell
    1x Golgari Brownscale
    1x Bloodghast
    1x Ichorid
    1x Nether Shadow
    1x Nether Traitor
    1x Ashen Ghoul
    1x Reassembling Skeleton
    1x Extractor Demon
    1x Dark Confidant
    1x Fauna Shaman
    1x Knight of the Reliquary
    1x Eternal Witness
    1x Qasali Pridemage
    1x Abyssal Gatekeeper
    1x Gaddock Teeg
    1x Tarmogoyf
    1x Karmic Guide
    1x Reveillark
    1x Spirit of the Hearth
    1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
    1x Reya Dawnbringer
    1x Angel of Despair
    1x Triskelion
    1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed

    Instants
    1x Darkblast
    1x Swords to Plowshares
    1x Abrupt Decay
    1x Grisly Salvage
    1x Crop Rotation
    1x Vampiric Tutor
    1x Entomb
    1x Eladamri's Call
    1x Worldly Tutor
    1x Krosan Reclamation
    1x Pull from Eternity

    Sorceries
    1x Life from the Loam
    1x Unburial Rites
    1x Dread Return
    1x Regrowth
    1x Call to the Netherworld
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Diabolic Intent
    1x Scapeshift
    1x Buried Alive
    1x Worm Harvest

    Enchantments
    1x Bridge from Below
    1x Leyline of the Void
    1x Oversold Cemetery
    1x Sylvan Library
    1x Survival of the Fittest

    Artifacts
    1x Mox Diamond
    1x Chrome Mox
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Helm of Obedience

    Planeswalkers
    1x Liliana of the Veil

    Lands
    1x Dakmor Salvage
    3x Plains
    3x Swamp
    3x Forest
    1x Flagstones of Trokair
    1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1x Dryad Arbor
    1x City of Brass
    1x Command Tower
    1x Bayou
    1x Scrubland
    1x Marsh Flats
    1x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Windswept Heath
    1x Golgari Rot Farm
    1x Orzhov Basilica
    1x Selesnya Sanctuary
    1x Barren Moor
    1x Secluded Steppe
    1x Tranquil Thicket
    1x Volrath's Stronghold
    1x Miren, the Moaning Well
    1x Mutavault
    1x Strip Mine
    1x Wasteland
    1x Bazaar of Baghdad
    1x Maze of Ith
    1x Dark Depths
    1x Thespian's Stage
    1x Vesuva
  10. WickedBoy6 Captain of the Atog Army

    Looks good. I had to go through about five revisions of my Bosh one before I got it right, and it's STILL waiting for a couple extra cards. It's good for what I need it to be, though, so as I said. Playtesting time, get a feel for what it can do. IT looks like you have a good handle on it, though.

    Also, my next Commander deck? It's tribal, it has to do with a creature type I love so much. Can you guess what it is?
  11. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Well, if you're captain of the atog army, I'm guessing Atogatog. The problem is, anyone using a five-color commander is to be eliminated with extreme prejudice.
  12. WickedBoy6 Captain of the Atog Army

    Actually, I have been meaning to ask if there was a way to change the status, as I had mentioned in one of my return posts that the Atogs aren't happy with me anymore.

    The Dew is back, and while I tend to dip into Dorito's every now and again, the damage was done. Besides, Reese's are the ****, anyway. I also realized that I gave away the Commander deck in that quote.
  13. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Well, I knew this first version of the deck was going to be a rough draft. I haven't changed my decklist quite yet, but I've come to some conclusions about this...

    Karador: I'm now convinced that Karador is a very good commander, maybe the very best, for attempting to use a lot of Dredge in Commander. A few dredgings with Stinkweed Imp and I can easily cast this guy. At 3/4, he's not impressive on his own. But his ability is very nice. I could use more creatures that synergize with that second ability, but my dredgers are good with the first one, which was the main concern.

    The manabase: May be a bit too low on lands for a Loam deck. I intend to add a few more lands, but I need to figure out which ones. I will be getting a Savannah next time I buy cards, whenever that is. Horizon Canopy would also be good here, although not nearly as amazing as it can be in other formats. Dryad Arbor has surprising utility here.

    The dredgers: Working better than I'd hoped. Drawing Golgari Grave-Troll or Stinkweed Imp early on really gets things moving, but I can force it with tutors if necessary. Dredging gives me a chance to get Loam shenanigans going, to get Karador online, to use Knight of the Reliquary, and to use recursion cards in order to find my two-card combos.

    The traditional Ichorid plan: This didn't pan out. I'll be cutting several cards. For a Commander deck, I have something reasonably fast that can also put up a reasonable amount of power, but I'm weak on defense, can't outscale everyone else's armies, and I'm rather inconsistent. It may seem out of character for me not to want to play a deck that outraces everyone and goes crazy or one that inexorably reaches a dominant board state, but I'm actually OK, this one time, with going sort of midrange-ish. It's just because this is my first real Commander deck and I want to get a feel for building them. Once I've finalized this thing and gotten a chance to pilot it in some real games, I'll probably look to build something more my style, which will be obnoxious and probably Esper with Oloro or something. Anyway, Ichorid clashes with Karador. Bridge from Below clashes with being in a highlander deck and in being in multiplayer. Dredge still works here, which was what I wanted to find out, but it works differently. I can still sit around milling myself to replace my draws, but I have to focus on creature and land recursion, not on token-generation.

    Probable cuts...

    Bridge from Below: Without a Leyline of the Void, this will die too quickly to be worthwhile. In a 60-card deck with four of them, it's easy to dredge them into the graveyard and start making an army. I can't count on that here and can't really build around it.

    Worm Harvest: That could be a really strong late-game Loam synergy, but I don't have a sufficiently controlling deck to make that an attractive option. I end up with a five-mana sorcery that I don't bother casting because I have better things to do.

    Extractor Demon: I realized just how ineffectual unearthing this is in a big multiplayer game with opponents that start at 40 life. I'm unlikely to cast it, so it becomes little more than Ichorid fodder.

    Helm of Obedience: Four-mana slots have to do something big to be viable in this deck, and this is really only good with Leyline of the Void or if I get lucky. I don't want to rely on luck that much. It's an artifact and Leyline of the Void is an enchantment, so assembling that two-card combo is difficult in this deck. Also, if people see that I'm trying to assemble that combo, they'll focus me.

    Ichorid: Just not as good as in the Vintage or Legacy dredge decks. I have to shift my approach here. Ichorid will very likely be cut.

    Leyline of the Void: Inherently weaker than in 60-card decks. Without Bridge from Below or Helm of Obedience, it does little for me. Commander makes getting any individual card harder. Better to just ditch the whole package and focus on what is working here.

    Call to the Netherworld: Too situational.
  14. WickedBoy6 Captain of the Atog Army

    It looks like you have a good hold on how Commander works. It always seems like a good idea to just put in the best of the best, but sometimes, that doesn't work. What may work in Legacy or Modern may as well be another non-basic in Commander. My Bosh Commander went through a LOT of revisions before it got to a suitable state. Hell, I STILL don't feel comfortable with it, and I'm not done yet. I still have a couple of choice cards I want in it before I ca say I'm done, but that's how Commander is: playtest, playtest, playtest.
  15. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I haven't actually had any time for more testing, but I'm making changes now because I'm reasonably confident about the cuts I mentioned earlier and I'm ready to test an updated list, once I get around to it...

    Helcomb County Municipal Lake Dredge Appraisal version 1.1

    Commander
    1x Karador, Ghost Chieftain

    Creatures
    1x Golgari Grave-Troll
    1x Stinkweed Imp
    1x Golgari Thug
    1x Greater Mossdog
    1x Shambling Shell
    1x Golgari Brownscale
    1x Bloodghast
    1x Nether Shadow
    1x Nether Traitor
    1x Ashen Ghoul
    1x Reassembling Skeleton
    1x Dark Confidant
    1x Fauna Shaman
    1x Knight of the Reliquary
    1x Eternal Witness
    1x Qasali Pridemage
    1x Abyssal Gatekeeper
    1x Gaddock Teeg
    1x Tarmogoyf
    1x Karmic Guide
    1x Reveillark
    1x Spirit of the Hearth
    1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
    1x Reya Dawnbringer
    1x Angel of Despair
    1x Triskelion
    1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
    1x Weathered Wayfarer
    1x Shriekmaw
    1x Fleshbag Marauder
    1x Birds of Paradise
    1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
    1x Llanowar Elves
    1x Apprentice Necromancer

    Instants
    1x Darkblast
    1x Swords to Plowshares
    1x Abrupt Decay
    1x Grisly Salvage
    1x Crop Rotation
    1x Vampiric Tutor
    1x Entomb
    1x Eladamri's Call
    1x Worldly Tutor
    1x Krosan Reclamation
    1x Pull from Eternity

    Sorceries
    1x Life from the Loam
    1x Unburial Rites
    1x Dread Return
    1x Regrowth
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Diabolic Intent
    1x Scapeshift
    1x Buried Alive

    Enchantments
    1x Oversold Cemetery
    1x Sylvan Library
    1x Survival of the Fittest

    Artifacts
    1x Mox Diamond
    1x Chrome Mox
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Crucible of Worlds

    Planeswalkers
    1x Liliana of the Veil

    Lands
    1x Dakmor Salvage
    3x Plains
    3x Swamp
    3x Forest
    1x Flagstones of Trokair
    1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1x Dryad Arbor
    1x City of Brass
    1x Command Tower
    1x Bayou
    1x Scrubland
    1x Marsh Flats
    1x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Windswept Heath
    1x Golgari Rot Farm
    1x Orzhov Basilica
    1x Selesnya Sanctuary
    1x Barren Moor
    1x Secluded Steppe
    1x Tranquil Thicket
    1x Volrath's Stronghold
    1x Miren, the Moaning Well
    1x Mutavault
    1x Strip Mine
    1x Wasteland
    1x Bazaar of Baghdad
    1x Maze of Ith
    1x Dark Depths
    1x Thespian's Stage
    1x Vesuva

    Changes:

    -Bridge from Below
    -Worm Harvest
    -Extractor Demon
    -Helm of Obedience
    -Ichorid
    -Leyline of the Void
    -Call to the Netherworld

    +Weathered Wayfarer
    +Shriekmaw
    +Fleshbag Marauder
    +Birds of Paradise
    +Avacyn's Pilgrim
    +Llanowar Elves
    +Apprentice Necromancer

    In my previous post, I talked about the cards I wanted to cut. I'll briefly explained my rationale for the replacements. Notably, all seven cards I've put in are creatures and none of them are particularly associated with the dredge mechanic. I concluded that the Ichorid plan wasn't going to work out, so I want to strengthen the Karador plan. Some of my testing showed that I could dredge into casting Karador for WBG easily enough, only to be unable to take advantage of his ability because the creatures in my graveyard were my dredgers or were too expensive to cast. These additions could solve that problem.
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I still haven't had a chance to test this with live victims. But I made some very minor changes...

    -1 Abrupt Decay
    -1 Plains
    -1 Forest
    +1 Maelstrom Pulse
    +1 Savannah
    +1 Horizon Canopy

    I needed my third copy of Abrupt Decay for the updated sideboard of the Legacy TES deck. Too lazy to switch back and forth, and seeing that Maelstrom Pulse might be better anyway, I made the switch. If I find that I'd prefer Abrupt Decay, I'll switch back. I also got two lands that would have gone in initially, had I owned them. This change slightly lowers the potential of Knight of the Reliquary in my deck, but I'll stick with it for now.
  17. Terentius The Instigator

    I don't really get what makes Dredge good; I'd need to see it in action to understand it. But what about Tombstone Stairwell?
  18. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    The article that I submitted for this week (I didn't send it out until yesterday morning, which may have been too late) is on the topic of "what makes Dredge good." I don't use specific examples because that's the sort of thing that can be found in features matches from tournaments and such. So I took a different approach, which hopefully turned out to be coherent.

    My article doesn't talk about my own deck very much, so I'd better finally get around to Tombstone Stairwell, which is a very cool card that I'd love to use if I could. It doesn't work for this deck. The cumulative upkeep makes it ephemeral, I don't have any cards that provide some synergy for the tokens, and I'm often digging too many creatures out of my graveyard for Tombstone Stairwell to become impressive.

    My next revision to this deck is probably going to trim the noncreature, nonland cards that do not have built-in recursion. Not all of them, but some of them need to go. This deck can start replacing most or all of its draws with dredging as early as turn one, and usually manages to go into all-out dredge mode after only a few turns. And that means that I'm probably going to see my cards in my graveyard, rather than in my hand. For anything in my deck that's a creature, this is not really a problem. I can use Karador to replay them. For lands, it's a bit more difficult, but I have multiple ways to get at lands in my graveyard. Other card types are harder to play from my graveyard. I have to either have Regrowth in hand and cast it, use Eternal Witness, or Krosan Reclamation and draw into the desired card. For the sake of completeness, here's everything in my deck that isn't a creature, a land, or a card with some form of built-in graveyard usage (generally Dredge or Flashback).

    Sol Ring
    Swords to Plowshares
    Diabolic Intent
    Crop Rotation
    Buried Alive
    Survival of the Fittest
    Scapeshift
    Eladamri's Call
    Sylvan Library
    Maelstrom Pulse
    Pull from Eternity
    Vampiric Tutor
    Regrowth
    Mox Diamond
    Demonic Tutor
    Oversold Cemetery
    Liliana of the Veil
    Crucible of Worlds
    Worldly Tutor
    Entomb
    Grisly Salvage
    Chrome Mox

    Some of that stuff has to go. I'm just not quite sure which cards yet, nor what to replace them with.
  19. Terentius The Instigator


    Ah, yeah. At first glance of Dredge Return I thought you could use it, but you're not even running that card. I run it in my Mono B Zombie deck to combo with Vengeful Dead, Grave Pact, Nantuko Husk, and Undead Warchief, and pay for it with Cabal Coffers.

    I'm not familiar enough with many of these cards to offer any good advice (which is the reason I don't comment on many deck posts).
  20. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    You mean Tombstone Stairwell, right? I am running Dread Return and probably always will for this deck (the manaless Flashback cost is pretty accessible for such a powerful effect).

    And of course Tombstone Stairwell with Grave Pact sounds like great fun.

    It's not certainly not bad advice. Like I said, I'm a fan of Tombstone Stairwell. It seems like a card that would be very nice to have in Commander games. It's just too much of a departure from what I've already built. Same reason I cut Helm of Obedience. That card is great, but this deck just can't use it to its full potential.

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