Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by LordKerwyn, Jun 8, 2006.

  1. LordKerwyn 3rd time buying cards

    Someone explain to me how this ability actually works.

    What I think: The ability happens when the creature first comes into play, and it takes form again when it leaves play (becomes a creature enchantment).

    Is that about right?
  2. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant


    "Haunt" itself means that when the card goes to the graveyard, it becomes an effect (not a creature enchantment) affecting a creature. The reason why it doesn't become a creature enchantment is because the text specifically says "remove this card from the game", and thus is not affected by Disenchant or something.

    What this generally means is yes, the effect happens twice, but only because in such a limited expansion, WOTC chose to make the effect of Haunt the same as when the creature comes into play and when the creature being Haunted leaves play. If they had more time or it was over more expansions, they could have easily made a card like:

    Haunt Dwarf
    Creature Dwarf
    When this comes into play, destroy a land.
    When the creature this haunts is put in the graveyard, gain 2 life.

    See the difference? Coming into play it does one thing, and when it haunts a creature it does another.

    In other words, the actual ability is independent of Haunt itself.
  3. turgy22 Nothing Special

    Personally, I think haunt is the most worthless and lazily designed keyword of the Ravnica block. The way it works is such:

    1) Creature with haunt comes into play.
    -The comes-into-play ability triggers. Haunt really has nothing to do with this, except the fact that it's redundant.
    2) Creature with haunt is put into the graveyard from play.
    -At this point, haunt triggers, and the creature is removed from the game instead of going into the graveyard. It also targets another creature in play to haunt. (Note that it never becomes a creature enchantment. It just sort of adds an additional triggered ability to the haunted creature, so the haunting can't be disenchanted or anything like that.)
    3) Haunted creature is put into the graveyard from play.
    -The creature with haunt's ability triggers a second time.

    Hmmm... I hope that cleared things up. I actually think I may have been even more confusing. Whenever I tell a new player about haunt, it's always easier to show them than try to describe it.
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It's probably geared toward the Limited formats...
  5. DarthFerret Evil Sith Weasel

    I do have one further question.

    If a creature that is haunted is put into a graveyard, and the ressurected by some means, is it still haunted? Since the Graveyard is deemed in play, it seems to me that it would not lose the haunt, however all counters, damage, and enchantments are removed when it goes to the graveyard, so I am not sure they if they put a contingency in the Haunt ability for that.

    (When did Limited get his own format? :D)
  6. BigBlue Magic Jones

    As I recall, Graveyard removes all effects etc... like if a card is laced, when it comes back, it isn't laced anymore...
  7. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    The only way a card can leave the play zone and come back remembering anything about when it was last in play is when it phases out and back in.
    Any card that makes it into the GY and then comes back into play will be considered and new permenent and not be haunted or laced or etc.....

    The official rules for the haunt ability are as follows:

    502.51. Haunt

    502.51a Haunt is a triggered ability that enables other triggered abilities to work from the removed-from-the-game zone. "Haunt" on a permanent means "When this permanent is put into a graveyard from play, remove it from the game. As long as this card remains removed from the game this way, it haunts target creature." "Haunt" on an instant or sorcery spell means "When this spell resolves, remove this card from the game. As long as this card remains removed from the game this way, it haunts target creature."

    502.51b Cards that are in the removed-from-the-game zone as the result of a haunt ability "haunt" the creature targeted by that ability. When the creature that's being haunted is put into a graveyard, an ability of each card in the removed-from-the-game zone that's haunting it will trigger.

    502.51c If a creature that's being haunted leaves the in-play zone, it stops being haunted.

    * If an instant or sorcery spell with haunt is countered, its haunt ability doesn't trigger.

    * Instants and sorceries with haunt have the same effect when they're played as when the haunted creature is put into a graveyard. Creatures with haunt have the same effect when they come into play as when the haunted creature is put into a graveyard.

    * You may haunt any creature in play, regardless of who controls it.

    * The same creature may be haunted by multiple cards.

    * The cards that are haunting a creature don't return from the removed-from-the-game zone when that creature leaves play.

    * If there are no legal targets for the haunt ability, the card with haunt stays in the graveyard rather than being removed from the game.

    * If a card with haunt is removed from the graveyard in response to its haunt ability triggering, the haunt ability will resolve. But since the card can't be removed from the game, it won't haunt the target creature.

    * The same applies for a token creature with haunt or a copy of an instant or sorcery spell with haunt. The haunt ability will trigger and target a creature in play, but the token or spell copy will have vanished from the graveyard by the time the ability resolves. It can't be removed from the game and won't haunt the targeted creature.

    * If a card that's haunting a creature leaves the removed-from-the-game zone due to a Wish (from the _Judgment_(TM) set), that card stops haunting that creature.

    * The source of an ability that triggers when a haunted creature is put into a graveyard is the card with haunt in the removed-from-the-game zone. The ability is controlled by the owner of that card.

    * If a creature with haunt controlled by Player A but owned by Player B is put into a graveyard, Player A controls the haunt triggered ability. That player chooses the target for the haunt ability and must remove the card from the game. However, when the haunted creature is put into a graveyard, Player B will control the triggered ability of the card in the removed-from-the-game zone and will make any choices it requires.
  8. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    The graveyard is NOT deemed in play.
  9. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    And remember kids, if a critter regenerates, it never touches the graveyard.
  10. DarthFerret Evil Sith Weasel

    What if it phases....I assume it retains the Haunt?
  11. Limited Yes, but we won't care

    Yes, Phasing is removed from play, but it 'remembers' all permanent changes, like counters and haunt.
  12. Lythand Veteran CPA Member

    Correct since the way regenerate now works. It has to get a regenerate "shell" before it is delt lethal damage. SO if someone says. I regenerate <Insert your favorite regenerator here>, after damage has been delt, by technical rules it cant be regenerated. Although this is how it used to work. What you are supposed to do is provide a regen shield to the creature, before damage is resolved. And remember if it regens, its tapped as well.

    I know, off subject, but felt a urge to get into it.
  13. LordKerwyn 3rd time buying cards

    Sounds to me that during the six years I've been away from the game, MTG has become more fun and more of a pain-in-the-azz!!!
  14. Lythand Veteran CPA Member

    Heh. depends on who's side your on. They are trying to make it more fun though.
  15. orgg Administrator

    Really, its a much better and more streamlined system.

    The Stack simplified things quite a bit.

    Oh, wait... 2006. You played with the Stack before. I'm ~~REALLY~~ feeling old, now.

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