Estilo Ransac

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by EricBess, Dec 2, 2002.

  1. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    By "resolved" he means that the effect was generated by a spell or an activated or triggered ability. That is, as a result of something that "resolved," as opposed to a static ability. (Like the difference between a spell that says, "All creatures become white," and an enchantment that reads, "All creatures are white.")

    The example given is of a land that has been animated so that it's also a creature, then was the target of Ashnod's Transmogrant, which as part of its effect causes a target non-artifact creature to become an artifact in addition to its types.

    The ruling was that, once the animation effect wears off, the land is still an artifact, since the Transmogrant's ability does not depend upon the affected permanent being a creature.

    A difference would be if, instead of Ashnod's Transmogrant, you had an enchantment in play reading, "Nonartifact creatures are artifacts in addition to their types." Once the animating effect wears off, the enchantment would cease to affect it since it depends upon the animating effect.

    I'm not sure what this has to do with Sleight of Mind, though.

    It seems that the Rules Team wants us to interpret the Sleight of Mind (and Alter Reality) effect as continuously watching the targetted permanent, changing instances of words when they appear, rather than simply changing the words when the spell resolves.

    That would mean that Sleight creates one continuous effect that in turn creates another continuous effect when appropriate.

    It makes sense, but some clarification of this someplace in the CompRules would be welcome.
  2. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    Minor nitpick: The Sleight only creates one continuous effect that substitutes one color word for another.

    IHMO, no clarification is necessary. The rules for how continuous effects interact with each other is pretty clearly defined. The sticking point here was that the Sleight apparently creates a continuous effect that substitutes a color word for another when appropiate rather than editing the text once and then going away.

    (- Steve -)
  3. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    That might be what I meant; I'm not sure. :p
  4. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    It was close, but close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and making out. Not that I would know anything about any of that.

    (- Steve -)
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Don't forget "and government work" :p
  6. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Isn't that an oxymoron???...:confused: :p
  7. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    I'm confused? Am I right or not?

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  8. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Sorry Ransac... but that was funny as Hades to see at that point in the thread...

    I understand though... I got lost early on too...
  9. EricBess Active Member

    Rune, who usually replies within minutes, didn't reply last night before I turned in. As such, he either wasn't available at the moment, or he's discussing the issue with someone and/or considering it. Let me check something.
  10. EricBess Active Member

    Aparently, I need to brush up on dependency rules. Of couse, I'm in good company.

    Rune responded and said that my original assessment was correct. Of course, he initially thought that I was creating a dependency loop with the Crusader (I used Mystic Crusader in my question instead of Sabertooth Nishoba to avoid the whole pro:Blue problem).

    He then sent a follow up saying that there was no dependency loop, but he had read the question wrong. His official response was that the Disciple has pro:Black and the Nishoba (extrapolating from his answer) also has just pro:Black.

    Apparently, Jeff Jordan later sent him a private email and between the two of them, they decided that Sleight of Mind, while a continuous effect, cannot depend on anything because continuous effect 1 depends on continuous effect 2 if CE2 changes one or more of the following:

    1. The set of permanents CE1 applies to.
    2. The static ability that is producing CE1.
    3. What CE1 does to the permanents it applies to.

    So, Disciple does end up with pro:Blue and Nishoba ends up with pro:Black and pro:Blue.

    But this certainly has been a stimulating conversation. :D
  11. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    So does this mean that I was actually right on the Green Ward/Opalescence question from this thread?

    (- Steve -)
  12. train The Wildcard!!!...


    I got one right?!!!....


  13. theorgg Slob

    *theorgg's Brain(and how appropriate for a thread on Sleight of Mind!): *FIZZLE!*
  14. train The Wildcard!!!...


    The Power of *Fizzle!...*!;)
  15. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I guessed right! And I'm sure my reasons were incorrect even if I was unable to explain to to y'all :p
  16. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Spidey - We both couldn't have been right - we had different answers...:)
  17. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    You're right! I thought we had the same answers...

    So does this mean they're taking away that E.13.Ruling.1?
  18. EricBess Active Member

    No, but recent talk about Sleight of mind and similar abilities is rather odd. Apparently, the mindset is that the text is always changed from the original text on the card.

    For example, a Disciple of Grace has pro:Red. If I Sleight the Disciple, changing red to green, it will have pro:Green. Later, if I want to Sleight the Disciple to pro:Blue, I need to change red to blue (not green to blue) since "red" is the word that is actually on the card.

    More is certain to follow, but I don't see this as an intuitive way to apply it myself. Regardless, I guess this was the mindset behind the ruling that Sleight cannot be dependant on anything, which would be true under this ideal.

    Also, that would mean that E13.Ruling.1 still applies, Spidey.

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