Engineered Plague

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Apollo, Apr 1, 2000.

  1. Apollo Bird Boy

    If I have an Engineered Plague out targeting Goblins, can my opponent play a Mogg Fanatic and sac it before it dies?

    Apollo
  2. supascrub New Member

    No. The mogg would come into play as a 0/0 creature and die before you could do anything.
  3. arhar Member

    Sorry, but it's wrong.

    The answer is YES, he can.

    Under 6th edition rules, when Mogg Fanatic comes into play, the Plague goes on the stack. In response to it going on the stack, he can sack it to deal 1 damage.
  4. supascrub New Member

    It would work that way if it were a triggered ability-"when a goblin comes into play it gets -1/-1 until end of turn". But this is a continuous ability and it modifies it as it comes into play, so it will come into play and immediately die.
  5. GreenGiant New Member

    yes you can cause when you get mogg Fanatic and sac it. its an instant that works before engineered plague takes effect
  6. The Magic Jackal Veteran CPA Member<BR><font co

    to supascrub

    <-----(5)-----
  7. Ura Feline Lord of the Pit

    Sorry guys, but scrub is right on this one.
    Because the Plauge is a constant effect it takes place immediatly before anything else can, just like a crusade or bad moon with white and black creatures.
    By your reasoning, you could play a white knight with a crusade out, but I could shock it as a fast effect so it dies before the crusade kicks in.
    Just doesn't work that way. Sorry.
  8. supascrub New Member

    Thanks Ura. Like I said before I know I can be wrong too but I just believed that I was right and I don't want anybody to think that it works the wrong way.
  9. arhar Member

    Well, the only reason I'm so sure is because this situation has come up in a draft not so long ago, and the store owner, a certified judge, has told me you can sack the goblin in response to plague's effect going on stack. But now that another judge had ruled otherwise....
  10. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    The Plague is a continuous effect. As the Mogg comes into play, all continuous effects are applied. The Mogg becomes a 0/0. Before any players gain priority, all state based effects are checked. Both players are theoretically above 0, so that is ignored. The Mogg, however, has toughness 0, and is buried as a state based effect.

    NOW the active player gets priority, but since the Mogg is already gone, it can't be activated.

    "MTG-L is a ruling haven..."
  11. Apollo Bird Boy

    thanks to everybody that responded, right or wrong. What Supascrub, Zadok et al said makes sense to me.

    Apollo
  12. GreenGiant New Member

    gotta question if ya gonna sack a creature isint that a instant?? well if it is that sacked creature gets out and sacks it before a enchantment begins and thats my theory and i got acouple of peeps that should back me up on this one
  13. Duel Has Less Posts Than Spiderman

    Close, GreenGiant, but no cigar. You cannot sac a creature before it comes into play, and it comes into play as a 1/1. If you cast a ghitu slinger, it deals the two damage before your opponent can terror it. Same here. If you cast the mogg, it becomes a 0/0 before any instants can affect it. If the mogg is already in play, and someone casts an engineered plague, on the other hand, the case is different:

    Stack 1
    Mogg comes into play
    status checked
    status resolved (mogg dies, being a 0/0)
    instants go off.

    I know you think you can sac the mogg in response to casting it, but that doesn't make sense, it's not in play yet, how can you use it?
  14. supascrub New Member

    Just wondering what kind of basis you guys have to make this call. I'm not saying I can't be wrong but I am a certified judge and I have had something like this come up in a qualifier I was in where a level 3 judge ruled the similar to what I posted above.
  15. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    supascrub and Zadok (and those who have since agreed with them) are correct.

    The Engineered Plague's effect is a continuous one (not a triggered one). The Fanatic comes into play as a 0/0 and is destroyed as a state-based effect before anything can be done to or with it.

    arhar, be advised that low-level certified judges have something in common with WotC customer service (whom, by the way, one should never call for rulings)...they are both often wrong.

    Apollo, just to clarify so that no one misunderstands, Engineered Plague does not "target" anything. It only "affects" creatures of the "named" type.

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