donate balck vice

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by tyger51, Aug 7, 2000.

  1. tyger51 New Member

    what happens if i donate a balck vice? who is the new target?

    [Duplicate thread deleted, no changes made here. --Zadok001]
  2. DÛke Memento Mori

    You would become the new target.
    It will start counting the cards in YOUR hand, and it will deal the damage to YOU. There, but why would anyone want to Donate a Black Vice?
  3. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    The target won't change.

    It's only checked when the card is played. After that, it only cares about who it targetted in the first place after that.

    There's no point in Donating it. Neither does it do any good to take control of one that has you as a target.
  4. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    TECHNICALLY SPEAKING... I'm sure there is a reason to Donate it. Perhaps you have a Complex Automaton, or your opponent does. Perhaps you need to lower the number of cards in your hand to avoid your opponent's Rack. Perhaps you're just stupid.

    "My point? There's always SOME stupid reason you can come up with!"
  5. DÛke Memento Mori

    Off TOPIC:
    I once donated a 3x Yawgmoth's Bargain, all for the same player, can you guess why?
  6. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    He was at 1, and kept Disenchanting them? That's one possible reason...
  7. tyger51 New Member

    so he couldnt draw cards
  8. DÛke Memento Mori

    no because he payed me money for them.
    I TRICKED ALL OF YOU, I didn't say I 'Donated' the cards, I said I 'donated' the cards, meaning that I 'donated' them, not by using Donate or anything, but donating them, not Donating them. Ooooooooooooooooooooooak, this is getting too confusing for you guys :) I hope you get it :)
  9. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    'Donation' is usually not associated with payment. :) Oops, there's a hole in Duke's story! :) J/K
  10. DÛke Memento Mori

    Yes, I KNOW, but IN MY world it's associated with MONEY :)
    Nah! There's even a bigger whole in your story :)
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Regarding CT's question:
    Couldn't you Flicker the Black Vise then and declare your opponent as the new target?
  12. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    I'm not going to guarantee that I'm right on this one, but I believe that the controller of Flicker gets to make the choices for the permanents.

    If that's the case, then yes, you can choose one of your own opponents as the target.

    I'll look for something official to back this us, or dispute it.
    Of course, if someone else knows for sure, please let us know.
  13. DÛke Memento Mori

    The person playing Flicker, control Flicker.
    The person Flickering the Vice gets to choose the new target.
    I'm almost positively sure about that...
  14. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, assuming you become the OWNER of the Black Vise (not controller), I couldn't find anything explicit from crystalkeep about Flicker to this situation. The only thing I could find was that it "resets" the permanent as if freshly cast, but I don't know if that means the target still remains the same or you get to choose a new one.

    Good luck!
  15. BigBlue Magic Jones

    not that anyone is reading this thread, but flicker would return it to the owner, and their opponent would be the target. in a multiplayer game where you use the convention that only one opponent is targeted, you could retarget it to a different opponent. I know if you do a local enchantment you can pick a new target. You could equally change the target of a copy card(clone, copy artifact etc.)

    Not sure if this helps.
  16. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Not sure what you're getting at, BigBlue...

    I think we were talking more single duel situations, which is why I emphasized OWNER. Otherwise, if I took control of it and Flickered it, it would go right back under my opponent's control and I'd still be the target (nothing changed). If I became the OWNER and Flickered it, then we're not sure what would happen.

    Here, you'd have to have a very accomodating opponent to first take control of it, then Flicker it so it goes back to you so you can re-target it (unless they didn't know what they were doing :)). Although I could see the case where you'd want to Flicker your own Black Vise to try to target someone else.
  17. BigBlue Magic Jones

    ahh. spidey. when you donate something to someone they gain "control" of it, you still "own" it. If you were to play shaharazad you would put it back in your deck. does this help?
  18. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I guess I wasn't clear in my posts above. I assumed we had moved away from the Donate scenario (which I know just makes you the controller) and were just talking about if you gained ownership of the Black Vise by ANY other means possible (which I don't know of off-hand, only Juxtapose comes to mind but without checking I don't know if that changes ownership. I doubt it). A Jinxed Idol effect (THAT changes ownership, doesn't it?). Then what happens when you Flicker it. That's the set-up I was operating under. Sorry for confusing you.

  19. BigBlue Magic Jones

    with jinxed idol, you don't actually own it either, just control it. only ante cards change ownership(jinxed idol, tempest efreet, etc.) Not sure if this is what you're driving at either.
  20. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I wonder if there's ANY cards that will transfer ownership... for cards in play. Otherwise, this speculation about Black Vise is a moot point.

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