Discard/Scion

T

Terentius

Guest
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Scion of Darkness
1 Blood Celebrant
4 Dark Supplicant
4 Mother of Runes
1 Dromar, the Banisher
1 Guiltfeeder
2 Order of Yawgmoth
1 Abyssal Specter
1 Silent Specter
4 Hypnotic Specter

2 Noetic Scales
1 No Mercy
4 Necromancy
3 Vindicate
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Traumatize
3 Ostracize
1 Tsabo’s Decree
2 Dark Ritual

4 Tainted Isle
4 Tainted Field
2 Island
4 Plains
10 Swamp

Total: 64


I originally wanted to make Scion the priority, but after some tests, I thought the discard part should come first, hoping to draw into a Necromancy. If not, I could hope for Noetic Scales on defense, and Dromar, Woe (Woe is in here because I usually play multiplayer matches, so she'll be really easy to get out after I've gotten some discard going, and even easier if I get the Traumatize), and Guilt on offense. Think this'll work? Also, cards to take out to get it down to 60?
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
If you can use Hymn to Tourach and you want discard to be the primary theme, I think you should use all 4 copies of it as it's one of the best discard cards (random even!). However, that would put you at 67 cards so not sure what 7 you ought to take out... maybe someone else can help with that :)
 
J

jorael

Guest
Seems to me there are 2 themes in the deck: discard + animation and clerics + scion of darkness.

The scion can also animate creatures out of opponents graveyard, but the added idea takes a lot of space in the deck. If this is the way you like it, great, it looks like fun to play. If you want it done to 60 cards I'd go for one idea ( discard & animation or B/W clerics & scion) and tune the deck in that direction for more effectiveness.

For example, the whole discard & animation idea could be made mono black and instead of dark supplicants with scion you could use animate dead...

How does the deck do against creature light opponents? ostracize is fitting for the theme, but as spiderman said, hymn to tourach is way better (perhaps even too nasty for casual play).
 
T

Terentius

Guest
Well, naturally, if I had more Hymn to Tourachs, I'd put them in (it's the best discard spell ever printed). Same with Vindicate.

Yeah, I've gotten that several times: "It seems like you're trying to do too much with this deck...". But I usually play multiplayer games, so my energies don't need to be TOTALLY focused on discarding the hell out of someone; I also have other resources.

I once posted this deck at XeroCreative, and learned how to turn it from casual to competitive: I'd toss the splash of blue entirely, lose the suboptimal discard creatures, and a full complement of Vindicate, Hymn to Tourach, Gerrard's Verdict, lose the Ostracize+Necromancy in favor of Duress, and some other stuff... and if I were playing competitively, I would. But it's just casual, and it works fine as is.

To whittle it down to 60, I'll probably lose the Noetic Scales, a Yawgmoth, and something else...
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
If you need more Hymns and Vindicates, perhaps that's a goal to strive for. You did ask for suggestions (without a disclaimer of something like "one of <x card> is all I have right now and can't get any others") ;)
 
J

jorael

Guest
If you want some more discard sorceries, do you have any Gerrard's verdict? Fits nice in the colors and is one of the best non-random discard spells.

I should have remembered them....
 
T

Terentius

Guest
After sifting through about 5000 cards this weekend, I found some more discards spells I can play, but some I'm still testing.

Here's my deck:

1 Avatar of Woe
1 Scion of Darkness
4 Dark Supplicant
4 Mother of Runes
1 Dromar, the Banisher
1 Guiltfeeder
1 Order of Yawgmoth
1 Abyssal Specter
1 Silent Specter
4 Hypnotic Specter

3 Necromancy
3 Vindicate
1 Hymn to Tourach
2 Gerrard's Verdict
1 Recoil
1 Traumatize
2 Ostracize
1 Tsabo’s Decree
3 Dark Ritual

4 Tainted Isle
4 Tainted Field
4 Island
4 Plains
8 Swamp

Total: 60
 
T

Terentius

Guest
This thread is pretty old, but I hope someone can catch this update (my apologies for the double post) and comment.


1 Scion of Darkness
4 Dark Supplicant
4 Mother of Runes
1 Confessor
4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Nezumi Shortfang

3 Necromancy
4 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Dark Ritual

4 Tainted Field
7 Plains
13 Swamp

Total: 60

Sideboard:
(This isn't techincally a real sideboard, but these are some fun cards I will put in for larger multiplayer (4+) games that I feel will expand this deck's resources. Certain cards in my maindeck are marked with silver card covers rather than black, and those cards will be swapped out for these which are in blue card covers.)

1 Avatar of Woe
1 Guiltfeeder
1 Dromar, the Banisher
1 Silent Specter
1 Abyssal Specter
1 Traumatize
2 Island
4 Tainted Isle


Comment Away!...please.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
I would probably do one less Tainted Field and one more Swamp. Your deck has a very strong focus on black, and an opening hand with a Plains and a Tainted Field is essentially a dead draw.

Also, ditch Dromar - he's amusing and all, but you don't have the blue mana to make his ability go off, and you should waste sideboard space and/or risk diluting your mana to three colors just in case you happen to find your one Dromar. I like him too, but he's for a specific deck, and this isn't it. Surely you can find better substitute fatties.
 
N

Notepad

Guest
Actually, with a lot of testing, I found the tainted lands to be just about worthless. They only work well if you're playing heavier black than 50/50. But, in that case, you're better off with even a basic land of that other color than a tainted land. Because, like Isty said, nonswamp and tainted is a dead hand. That, and tained alone is even worse.

It isn't that tainted lands are 50/50 of two colors, its more like they're 50% the nonswamp color, and 50% NOTHING. Trust me, they suck.
 
J

jorael

Guest
I love the tainted lands and seems to me the ratio should be fine. with 13-14 swamps in the deck it will be rare to have a tainted land but no swamp.

I like them especially in heavy black decks that have a splice of another color. They give you the double black mana required, but also mana in the color you need besides black.
I would not drop a tainted, but a plains for an extra swamp, if I'd change anything at all.

The deck looks cool by the way. It has a lot more focus, while still combining discard and the scion theme.
How does it play? Any good multiplayer stories?
 
T

Terentius

Guest
Firstly, my side deck has changed, again (it now has the required 15 cards):

1 Avatar of Woe
1 Guiltfeeder
1 Dromar, the Banisher
1 Silent Specter
1 Traumatize
3 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Recoil
2 Island
4 Tainted Isle


I know, I've gotten this before about how the Tainted Fields only look good on paper, but in reality they should just be tossed in favor of good ol' reliable pain lands. But this deck is just casual, and I've hardly experienced any missed land drops, and if I do, it's recoverable with Dark Ritual.

I know I shouldn't be running Dromar. I should probably toss him in favor of another Guiltfeeder, Woe, or some more Recoils. But he's so l33t! Actually, the thing I'm about to ditch is Nezumi; in the few tests I've run with him, he's actually more trouble than he's worth. Suggestions on that?

Multiplayer stories? Well... my friends all complain "n00b!!1" whenever they see me using Hymn to Tourach on them, because don't we all hate discarding... But the best hand I've ever seen came yesterday: first turn Swamp, 2 Dark Rituals, 3 Dark Supplicants, Hymn to Tourach. BOOM! Other than that, nothing too interesting happens, and I often find Mother of Runes being more than just a one-drop cleric; she protects my more important creatures from bounce and the like.
 
L

Limited

Guest
Tsi said:
I know I shouldn't be running Dromar. I should probably toss him in favor of another Guiltfeeder, Woe, or some more Recoils. But he's so l33t! Actually, the thing I'm about to ditch is Nezumi; in the few tests I've run with him, he's actually more trouble than he's worth. Suggestions on that?
Click to expand...
Nezumi is soooo good. It's a cheap rat which will have your opponents discard a card at instant speed? How can you consider dropping it?

And I still think the Hymn is broken and should be avoided at all costs.
 
T

Terentius

Guest
Well, I just ran some more tests with Nezumi, and he still didn't live up to the expectations set by those who praise him. Whenever I finally flipped, I was already in control of the game and didn't need him. But he'll stay for now.

Also, for solo play, I'm now running 12 Swamps, 6 Plains, and 3 Tainted Fields, totaling 21 lands. I did this so I could move Ill-Gotten Gains from the side to main deck in hopes of making more use of Shortfang.
 
L

Limited

Guest
Seems like a small manabase (*plays with a 24 land minimum*)...
How do you see the Shortfang and Ill-Gotten Gains interacting? Sure, Ill-Gotten Gains is in some way a discard spell; but isn't a accelerator for your own deck? Playing agressively with Dark Rituals and Blood Pets so the turn three Ill-Gotten Gains will negate all the card disadvantage you got putting threats on the table turn one and two?
 
T

Terentius

Guest
Finally got around to replying to this.

Okay, Ill-Gotten Gains is back in the SB.

Blood Pet? What I need him for, hell I got 4 Dark Rituals and my most expensive spells are Vindicate, Hippie, and cycling Scion of Darkness, unless you count playing Scion himself, which I never do. But anywho, I added another land, and decided to keep 3 Nezumi Shortfangs after seeing the beauty of "instant speed" discard. "Oh what, did you draw something? Say BYE BYE! :D "
 
L

Limited

Guest
The idea is that 4 blood pets makes sure your first two turns can get two threats on the table. This will give you carddisadvantage (pitching a Dark Ritual or a Blood Pet has that effect) which a turn three Ill-Gotten Gains can compensate for. Example
Turn one: Swamp, Blood Pet.
Turn two: Tainted Field, Dark Ritual, Hypnotic Specter, Confessor.
Turn three: Swamp, Sac BP, Ill-Gotten Gains (returning Dark Ritual and some discard like the Shortfang)

Admittedly, it's mostly the Dark Ritual doing the work.. but you won't always have one in your starting hand. A turn one Bloodpet makes for a aggresive turn two, or so I've experienced.
 
T

Terentius

Guest
Okay here's my deck again:

4 Dark Supplicant
4 Mother of Runes
2 Devoted Caretaker
1 Confessor
1 Scion of Darkness
3 Nezumi Shortfangs
4 Hypnotic Specters

4 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Gerrard's Verdict
1 Mind Twist (I found this card, is it good? If not, I'll put the Verdict back in)
3 Necromancy
4 Dark Ritual

12 Swamp
6 Plains
4 Tainted Field

I reckon I've no room for this Blood Pet, and I think my mana curve is fine. It usually goes like 1st turn: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Dark Supplicant, Hymn to Tourach; 2nd turn: Plains, Dark Supplicant, Mother of Runes, Sacrifice for Scion of Darkness. And I think that setup works just fine.
 
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