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cranial extraction

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chris92

Guest
everyone here is raving about cranial extraction, prices are way up.

do you guys think its over rated? well i do. do you think it's the best card that came out of champions?
 
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Reverend Love

Guest
Rampant Growth in creature form.
That crazy little goblin that makes tokens.
Hinder
The black dragon

These are better in my opinion.
 

Killer Joe

New member
I have to take Cranial Extraction off of my trade list. Last night I got a Masticore, Meloku tCM and a Rofello's for it.

I'd say some folks think it good.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
It is better than Lobotomy, but Lobotomy isn't particularly good...

It is not a bad card, but I don't see myself using it. It's not all that fast, for one thing. You could easily change that with Dark Ritual. But that same Dark Ritual could power out Hypnotic Specter, Mind Twist, Necropotence, or whatever. Is Cranial Extraction worth the Dark Ritual? Probably not...

Also there is the question of what it's being pointed at. Against control you could name Force of Will or Mana Drain or something. The problem with acting against countermagic in this manner is that if they can counter it, especially with Mana Drain, then they might as well. Duress or Cabal Therapy would get the job done for a single mana, which is A LOT better.

You could also try to name a kill condition or some such card. I can't think of any instances where this card would be particularly good against control, but I could be wrong.

This thing doesn't scratch aggro and I think it would be a wasted play.

It might seem to be a good anti-combo card. This runs into two problems. Firstly, there are already cards that can hose combo decks and do a better job. Secondly, even if it is successful, most combo decks run an alternative kill of some sort, so this doesn't exactly kill the combo player. For example, some TPS builds can Cunning Wish into Brain Freeze or Tinker out Darksteel Colossus. Many Dragon decks run something huge like Sliver Queen which can bust a player up quickly enough.

Prison decks also have multiple ways to kill you and I don't think they are fragile enough for this to be amazing against them.

As for being the best of the COK, I'm not sure. It not exactly an overpowered set. I vote Orchard though, for making Oath all evil and psychotic-like...
 
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Tabasco

Guest
I think the most important phrase on Cranial Extraction is "Remove them from the game"

Think of what happens to FCG if they lose all of their Food Chains or Recruiters/Ringleaders.......or where a TnT deck is going without Survival or Welder....there isnt much welder prison without the welder part, or the mindslaver for that matter.

I think the card is great it can single-handedly wreck a deck...
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Since you're talking about FCG, you must mean that it would be good for use in Vintage (or a casual format of some sort where Goblin Recruiter is allowed).

Firstly, what deck would you be using this in?

Unless it has not yet been drawn, FCG will have no problem whatsoever dropping Food Chain BEFORE you manage to Cranial Extraction. Cranial Extraction costs a mana more than Food Chain.

I have played against FCG (mostly proxied) and even with enough countermagic to make sure Food Chain never hit, I was overwhelmed by goblins that were dropped by the first turn Lackey. It is a very solid deck and midgame removal of all copies of a single card from the hand, graveyard, and library will not cripple it. When you tap out to get rid of Food Chains, you make yourself vulnerable to some nasty goblin beatings.

I don't have first-hand experience against TnT, but doesn't seem like Cranial Extraction would be ideal for "wrecking" it.
 
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Tabasco

Guest
2 word for you....Proxied Power

yes, but with a lotus in play first turn, that 4 mana doesnt really seem too hard to achieve. anydeck thatcan splash duress can splash this card...it is not black heavy.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
You only get one Lotus and can't reliably draw it every game. For every game you get a Lotus and cast Cranial Extraction first turn (which as I have already stated doesn't do as much damage as one might think) there will be a game where I get a first turn Lotus and eat you alive with something broken.

Anyway, that still leaves the question of what Vintage deck is actually playing this card. I don't know of any that do (even though it was the most hyped card in the set). But that doesn't mean there aren't any.

I mean, there could be some new version of EBA or Keeper that uses Cranial Extraction as part of a successful strategy. It don't see how it would be done exactly, but it seems plausible enough. The card is good, after all. I think I've already said that it is good. I just don't think that it is amazing or that it is the best card in the set (after what Orchard has done for Oath).
 
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Seeker of Truth

Guest
Initial reaction to this card's effect was incredible, and many predicted that B/x control would rise to the forefront based on this card and Kokusho. However, the hype surrounding this card quickly started to cool off due to the (somehow startling) realization that this card does nothing to impact the game as it stands at the time you play it. Unless your opponent has two copies of the card you name in his or her hand at the time you play the spell, Cranial Extraction is no better than a Distress that removes the card from the game, plus you have to name the card before you see your opponent's hand.

Still, I just like playing this card based on the effect it can have on your opponent psychologically when you start removing key cards from their deck. I run it in G/B control, and opponents quickly get frustrated and depressed as win condition after win condition gets removed, especially if you start recurring it with Eternal Witness. One person I played against at States was running a March of the Machines deck, and with no permanents in play except lands, I played Extraction, naming Mycosynth Lattice. His jaw dropped as I looked through his deck and tossed out two Lattices that I did not even know were in there. He conceded two turns later, without me having a win condition on the board and him having a Darksteel Ingot running unopposed.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Wow, that is a cool anecdote...

I look at the card as a completely superior version of Lobotomy. It trades the opportunity to see the opponent's hand before making a choice for nailing all copies in the graveyard, hand, and library of whatever card it is you name with the lack of a blue mana requirement thrown in almost as an afterthought.

So, any sightings of successful decks running this card in either of the "Eternal" formats?
 
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Seeker of Truth

Guest
It's also better than Lobotomy in the sense that your card choices aren't just limited to whatever your opponent has in hand at the time. You can choose any card in their deck, with the added risk that if it isn't there, you get nothing. I think that G/B decks in extended are running it to help eliminate combo-based threats or control-based answers to their own threats.

If by "Eternal" formats you're referring to Type 1 and 1.5, I would hazard a guess that the card is too slow to work consistently, and with the mountain of counterspelling in those formats, it would be next to impossible to sneak it through, although the number of combo-based decks in those formats would suggest that it could be effective. Although it would be interesting to see how something like Dragon works without its namesake card, or Tog (although there's an awful lot of counterspelling in that deck).

I haven't seen any Type 1 decks running this, so that's just a guess on my part.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
It's definitely not too slow. It's just that it's not effective enough. Fact or Fiction, Academy Rector, Juggernaut, Nevinyrral's Disk, Nether Void, Deep Analysis, Tendrils of Agony, Goblin Charbelcher, and several other bombs cost four mana and are good cards in either Vintage or new format that doesn't have name.

It seems though, that the card is just not a powerful enough effect. It can weaken any deck, but most decks can fight around it easily enough. It has no impact on board position at all. If one could use it at a time when the opponent's hand held multiple copies of the offeding card, that would be quite powerful. But other than that it is a preventative measure along the same lines as Meddling Mage--except Meddling Mage costs half as much and makes a decent attacker.
 
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Seeker of Truth

Guest
True, but Cranial Extraction can't be killed once it has been played. If a Meddling Mage is removed from play, its effect no longer works, right?

Of course, you could argue that removing the copies of the named card from the game is worse than leaving them in with an active Meddling Mage, where they could potentially be dead draws.

Also, in Type I, there are so many restricted cards that using Extraction on one of those cards will remove at most one copy, unless you go for something like Mana Drain or Force of Will (which will almost certainly be countered).
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
They can kill Meddling Mage, but they can also wish back in cards removed by Extraction. Also there's the bigger factor of the dead draws with Meddling Mage.

I have never tested it for EBA or sideboards of control decks. I don't know if it would fit in something, but it seems so far that it lacks a place in Vintage decks...

"Type 1.5" is a much newer format without as established of a metagame, so it's tougher to tell...
 
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Mikeymike

Guest
I look forward to getting Cranial Extraction, because it will act as very good trade fodder.
 
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