Counter-Istanbul!

[DÛke]

Hey.
This deck is dedicated to Istanbul, the counter guy. You know it or not, he challenged me to build a legal Extended deck that was mono Blue. The trick about it was that it is supposed to be counter-less; not having any single countermagic card in it.

Well, I took my time, and looked at the unfimiliar environment of Extended, and came up with a deck that has everything Istanbul asked for; however, mean while my search for the cards, I have found that Blue has a lot of other 'unexplord' strategies that doesn't have to use countermagic as part of the design.

Yes, I do agree with you all that this deck is not the greatest Extended deck you'll ever see, but guess what, it wins, and it has a chance of winning almost against any type of decks in Extended.
The point was (I think) that the deck has a fair chance at winning, and that's exactly what this deck is all about.

Here it is, Counter-Istanbul:

Spells:
4x Boomerang
4x Hoodwink
4x Mystical Tutor
4x Impulse
1x Sunder
1x Mind Games

Enchantments:
4x Propaganda
4x Volrath's Curse

Artifacts:
4x The Rack
4x Tamgle Wire
2x Sphere or Resistance

Lands:
4x Rishadan Port
24x Island

(Note that I don't know if Rishadan Port is bannd/restricted in Extended, so I just added, if it is banned/restricted, then the 4x Rishadan Ports should be replaced with 3x Crystal Vein and 1x Island.)

Here's how the deck works:
Your first three turns should focus on disrupting the opponent with Mind Games, Hoodwink, and Boomerang. Return or tap their lands with these. If you don't get any of these, than use Mystical Tutor to get one ASAP. (Note that if you draw Mind Games earily, disrupt them, don't keep it until you could pay the Buy Back cost.)

After controling their mana supplies, it's time to play either Propaganda, Tangle Wire, Sphere of Resistance. Then play The Rack.
All these cards should be easy to find with the 4x Impulse.

They shouldn't have to have a lot of creatures and permenants at all in the first place, but just incase you do, Volrath's Curse and Porpaganda will take care of them in a snap.

The Rack combined with Tangle Wire is a game by itself, not to mention the combination of The Rack with Sunder. The Rack should proove too powerful in this deck because of the deck's own nature.
Opponent's hand should be filled with unplayable cards.

Sunder + Propaganda = creatures can't attack for a limited time.
Sunder + The Rack = you win the game.
Tangle Wire + The Rack = a lot of damage for the opponent.
Tangle Wire + Propaganda = creatures can't attack for some time.
Sphere or Resistance + The Rack = you kind of win the game.

All these combinations are easiy to find due to the 4 Impulse and 4 Mystical Tutor.

All in all, I think this deck is pretty great and powreful, and the most important of all, I didn't use counter magic, just like Istanbul asked.

The deck looks great, and now, I look great too
I need to know what you guys think...Do you think this deck is good or bad? Is it great, especially for not having any counter powr in it? How would you rate this deck in a scale of 1-5, 1 being the worst, and 5 being the best. How would you rate it's originality, on the same scale?

Thanks yall.

 

[Istanbul]

Bad. Really, REALLY bad. First of all, anything white would COMPLETELY destroy it. Secondly, all Stompy needs is to main-deck Tranquil Grove. Thirdly, most combo decks will *savagely beat* this deck. Fourthly, it doesn't appear to have a kill mechanism. (Filling your opponent's hand and playing The Rack does...nothing.) Fifthly, burn decks would disassemble this deck like crazy. I could keep going...

 

[DÛke]

And how exactly are they gonna play Tranquil Grove if they don't have enough lands? From turn 2 till 4, they are gonna be on major lock down, how exactly are they gonna play a lot of cards?
Do you even know what Tangle Wire does? Propaganda?
By the way, no one play a main deck Tranquil Grove, because no one would expect such a deck to pop up.

Anything White could completely destroy it? How?
Unless your deck is built to destroy this deck. White can do nothing about this deck until SB. The only main deck card that white could pack inorder to ruin this deck is Disenchant, other wise, White Weenie is no big deal for this deck.

Red burn? Not really. Again, if they're locked down, they won't be playing burn. Yet, I could see where red could destory this deck. Atleast this one makes sense.

Green? Muaaaaa haaa haaaaa. Green has no chance against this deck.

 

[theBruce58]

Not a criticism, really, just a clarification...

The Rack deals 1 damage to target opponent for each card in their hand fewer than three. I don't see how this would deal damage with your deck returning everything...they'd have like seven cards in hand all the time.

I think what you meant was Black Vise, which deals damage to target opponent for excessive hand size. Unfortunatley, Black Vise is no longer legal for Extended, since it wasn't reprinted in 5th, nor was The Rack. However! You could simulate this with Viseling from Nemesis, however, it would be considerably slower.

Another nasty trick to play would be use the bounce theme in conjunction with Ankh of Mishra, possibly utilizing Parallax Tide in the deck, as well. Worth a look, anyway,

Anyway, enlightening article, good show!

 

[nodnarb24]

Tag Guard

My creatureless burn deck could totally wreck that deck. There is some much cheap burn in my deck it isn't even funny. The sphere of resistence doesn't hurt it much because almost all my spells cost R or 1R. The propaganda does absolutely nothing to me. Those bounce and tap cards are a minor inconveniences to me and my land.

 

[DÛke]

Oh, how stupid of me. I didn't mean The Rack! Why would anyone play The Rack here?
I meant Iron Maden, or whatever the hell it's called from Urza's Legacy.
Ankh of Mishra/Paralalx Tide combo is great too, and the deck could be built without using counter magic.

Istanbul, you just didn't want to admit for my effort because you hate me or something, but I believe that my deck is good.
Come one, do you realy think that someone would main deck a Tranquil Grove? WHY?

 

[nodnarb24]

Tag Guard

I do, it's very helpful

 

[DÛke]

Nodnarb24, I know that red is bad against this deck, I already admit it to that, but you have to admit that this deck is great against Green/White/Blue/Black. Green and White always use creature decks, so that's a gonner. Blue needs hell of mana, that's a gonner. Black might be a problem with discard, but I don't think it would be very great.

The deck is great over all, isn't it?

 

[DÛke]

You would main deck a Tanquil Grove? Well, sorry, I didn't know there was so much of you people out there, are you like Istanbul's more-evil clone or something...

Well, HERE, they DON'T main deck a Tranquil Grove, sorry, I've seen a main deck Disenchant, but not a maind deck Tranquil Grove.

 

[theBruce58]

Duke--

I'd have to admit that this deck would be most annoying to play against. Of course, everyone's going to have another deck that they play that would destroy it. Would they be playing that deck in a local game when you brought this beast out? Most likely not.

I myself run a few decks, and I have to admit that my three main decks would cough and choke against the onslaught of bounce. I don't know if I'd lose, but I'd be totally unprepared for the strategy and would definitely need to PLAY to make it through.

So, I thought it was a decent idea, and I might even build a deck on the side with this theme, to test against. And besides, that list is bugging me being built around Ankh/Tide...hmmm...

Also, yeah, the thing from Urza's Legacy is called Iron Maiden, I'd forgotten about that one. So, there's still Iron Maiden and Viceling in Type 1.5.

 

[DÛke]

You see, that was the truth being said
I know it's not the greatest deck in the world, but you have to admit it really a great deck to play with and against. Sure there's a chance of not winning, but there's a chance of winning too.

theBruce58, you are a true support thanks.

As for the Ankh of Mishra/Tide deck, it would be really cool to see a deck like that, but the challenge is to make it counterless, just to proove Istanbul wrong.

The deck should have bounce, Ankah of Mishra, and Parallax Tide.
Tangle Wire should also be used to stall them, and Sphere of Resistance should be played inorder to create a lock.
Sunder could be considered.

You don't even NEED COUNTERSPELL or counter magic to build that deck. Bounce is a form of disruption too, just like discard and LD, so there, Istanbul, you have all the truth. If you don't like it, than I would like to see your GREAT ASS deck that KICKS ASS and WINS WITHOUT playing DARK RITUALS; I WANT to see how PLAYING DARK RITUAL WOULD BE A BAD DRAW...SHOW ME...

 

[nodnarb24]

Tag Guard

I also have a kick ass black deck that doesn't run a single dark ritual. It is a Creature/Land destruction deck. I can see how a dark ritual can be a bad draw because it is only useful in the beginning of the game. I really hate when i get a Dark ritual in the middle of the game.

 

[theBruce58]

Duke--

How's this sound?

Spells:
4x Boomerang
4x Hoodwink
4x Mystical Tutor
4x Impulse
1x Sunder
1x Mind Games

Enchantments:
4x Propaganda
4x Parallax Tide

Artifacts:
4x Iron Maiden
4x Tangle Wire
2x Sphere or Resistance
4x Ankh of Mishra

Lands:
4x Rishadan Port
20x Island

I cut down the land, added in the Ankhs and Tides, but kept it about the same, as the basic idea is sound. Whatcha think?

 

[DÛke]

nodnarb24, I don't care.
theBruce58, I think the deck rocks, atleast for now. It needs some play testing though. There are a lot of more cards to consider in Extended, but I'm not familiar with the envrionment. Sorry. Great deck over all.

YOU see Istanbul, YOU DON'T need counter magic in your blue decks inorder to build an ORIGINAL deck.

 

[Zadok001]

Which is not to say Force of Will wouldn't fit the deck admirably. Ok, ok! Shutting up on that topic...

Re: Maindeck Groves: They are out there. Some fast Green decks run one or two, since they don't need the extra slot for a creature, and combos are really, really Bad Things(tm). But not too many.

Re: White: Yeah, white will wreck this. Four Disenchants maindeck is the _minimum_. Most white decks in Extended also like to have a few Aura of Silence, and possibly even Seal of Cleansing. (Does it ever feel to you like decks in Extended have like 80 slots? How do they do that?) Admitably, creatures won't be real agressive, but they have one and two mana drops out the rear, and they _will_ get two land at some point. And with all the Disenchanting action going on (I remember one deck with Abolish, now that I think about it), the creature will get through. I'm not saying you can't beat White, just that it won't be anything remotely resembling easy. Like playing Bargain against a deck with 4 FoW and 16 other counters. Not smart.

On a whole, though, the deck will own most Green, all Black, most Blue, and some White. Red is trouble. Looks good!

 

[DÛke]

Thanks Zadok
I really appreciate someone who tells me the truth.
You told me the faults of the deck, and you told me the goods, that cool I wish everyone would be as cool as Zadok here

 

[Gizmo]

HOWLING MINE!
And Temporal Adept - landlock the bastard!

Hoodwink, Boomerang, Rescind, Capsize, Capsize, Capsize...
Burn in Iron Maiden hell!

Still crap, but it`s not THAT crap.

 

[Istanbul]

I hate to break this to you, but I'm seeing a LOT of maindeck Tranquil Grove in green around here. Why? No more Replenish, no more Bargain, no more Pebbles, etc, etc.

White weenie? Is this the same White Weenie that packs four Disenchants, and has three of its weenies being Devout Witness? (I WRECK people with Devout Witness. Hard.) Pop your Iron Maidens and Propagandas, and you lose.

Burn...well, duh. No creatures = no defense.

Black would have some serious trouble against this deck, I'll give you that, but that's mostly due to its lack of enchantment destruction; black has trouble against Light of Day, COP: Black, and any other enchantment or artifact heavy deck, too.

Blue...well, blue with COUNTERS (which is how it should be) would simply prevent you from casting your key cards (Iron Maiden, Tangle Wire, Sunder, possibly Propaganda) and would beat you down eventually with a Morphling or somesuch thing.

As for your 'bounce their lands' argument...perfect! No problem. If you're bouncing my lands, that means you're NOT casting any of your important cards. You're slowing me down, but you're slowing you down, too. It simply won't give you enough time advantage.

I'm sorry, Duke. I have nothing personal against you. And yes, I've seen blue decks without counters that do work. (Ankh/Tide is one, even if it's not yours.) But this deck will struggle with an uphill battle to win, IF it can. And against most serious decks, I don't think it can.

 

[Gizmo]

Isn`t Tinker a mono-blue deck with no counters?

This certainly is - TinkerTide.

4 Impulse
4 Boomerang
4 Tinker
4 Parallax Tide
2 Capsize

2 Rainbow Efreet

4 Howling Mine
4 Ankh Of Mishra
4 Tangle Wire
2 Storm Cauldron
1 Phyrexian Colossus
1 Crumbling Sanctuary

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
16 Island

 

[Spiderman]

Why don't you play each other with Apprentice or something? DUke using his blue deck and Isty using his whatever decks, then switch and Isty use his Dark-Ritual-less deck against whatever DUke has. You can even write an articel about it! Front page!

Please don't say you can't use Apprentice