Convoluted rules question based on a YouTube comment I saw...

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Oversoul, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I saw a comment on a YouTube video in which someone described a 14-card combo, but there was some confusion as to whether it actually functions. The author seemed to think that it would not longer function, but that at some point several years ago before a rules or Oracle text change, it would have. I'm a little unclear on it, but I believe that I'm spotting the point of failure. I want to check. We still have one or two rules people here, right?

    The components are as follows...

    -Jackal Pup played at some point. Donate is used to transfer Jackal Pup to opponent. Opponent now has Jackal Pup.
    -Muzzle on Jackal Pup. All damage that would be dealt by Jackal Pup is prevented.
    -Farrel's Mantle on Jackal Pup. Now whenever Jackal Pup attacks and isn't blocked, its controller may deal its power + 2 to another target creature instead of dealing combat damage.
    -Grand Melee is played. Jackal Pup must attack each turn if able.
    -Mossdog is played. Coalition Flag is played on Mossdog, making it a mandatory target. This looks to me like it's where the combo breaks down. The Oracle text on Coalition Flag specifies spells and activated abilities, so triggered abilities (as in the case of Farrel's Mantle) wouldn't interact with it.
    -Aysen Highway is used to make all white creatures gain plainswalk. Plains is out, so white creatures attacking the player cannot be blocked.
    -Balduvian Shaman edits Aysen Highway to give red creatures plainswalk and to have a cumulative upkeep.
    -Chronatog is used to skip turns, mitigating the cumulative upkeep on Aysen Highways that was imposed by Balduvian Shaman.
    -Each turn, opponent is forced to have Jackal Pup attack (Grand Melee) and no creatures can block Jackal Pup (Aysen Highway edited by Balduvian Shaman). Jackal Pup deals no damage (Muzzle) and because it went unblocked, it triggers Farrel's Mantle. The opponent may choose not to have the Farrel's Mantle ability do anything, but it still triggers, and Coalition Flag makes Mossdog the only choice (except by my understanding, this is no longer the case, if it ever was). This triggers Mossdog's ability,
    which adds a +1/+1 counter to it. This keeps happening until the opponent can stop it or until Chronatog is no longer used to keep skipping turns.
    -Once Mossdog is sufficiently large, Chronatog isn't used to skip turns anymore (author stipulates the use of Obelisk of Undoing to bounce Muzzle, but that doesn't appear to have any effect on the combo). Great Wall is played, allowing Jackal Pup to be blocked.
    -Opponent still must have Jackal Pup attack. Mossdog (with a large number of +1/+1 counters on it) blocks Mossdog. Jackal Pup's ability kills opponent.

    As stated, the point of failure I think that I'm spotting is with Coalition Flag. If I understand correctly, it doesn't interact with Farrel's Mantle. Is that the only rules issue preventing this from working? Am I missing something else? Would this have ever worked under older rules? Is this the stupidest rules question ever posted at the CPA?
  2. turgy22 Nothing Special

    This exact situation happened to me in a game once (in fact it's actually quite common) and if I recall correctly, your interpretation is spot on.

    PS: I hope my blatant lie shuts down this thread immediately, as my head started to hurt after reading the 6th or 7th bullet point.
    Spiderman and Oversoul like this.
  3. Terentius The Instigator

    Need auto-card
  4. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Judges already have all of these cards memorized, especially Farrel's Mantle, which comes up all the time in judge calls.
  5. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    I am no longer a certified judge and don't have to remember anything..... mwaahahahaha
    But, even the original rules text seems to support your theory
    "If an opponent plays a spell or ability that could target a Flagbearer in play, that player chooses at least one Flagbearer as a target."
    112.3c Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as “[Trigger condition], [effect],” and include (and usually begin with) the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” Whenever the trigger event occurs, the ability is put on the stack the next time a player would receive priority and stays there until it’s countered, it resolves, or it otherwise leaves the stack. See rule 603, “Handling Triggered Abilities.”

    my [IMG]
    Oversoul likes this.

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