Confused and in need

[Purple_jester]

The deal: I got 4 mint-condition Megrims for a single Stormbind in a recent trade.

The problem: I know it's a good card, and I want to build a deck around it. My problem is, with so many options, just what would be a good deck? I have some ideas, like using Memory Jar and Time Spiral for maximal damage. But beyond that, it's all a confusing swirl of cards and a vague deck concept.

ARGH! Somebody help me!

I want to stick with either mono-black, black-blue, or black-red. Type Casual. I want this to be a fun deck. Did anyone out there play wth this card when it was still Type 2 legal?

This is what happens when you take a leave of absence from the game for a half-dozen expansions...

 

[Spiderman]

Megrim and Jar caused Jar to be banned...

If you're looking for casual, Anvil of Bogardan might be an option. It's usually an unexpected discard...

Of course, I'm sure you'll get a lot of suggestions to go with traditional discard. I'm not sure how casual you'd like to make it.

 

[Killer Joe]

Black/Blue
High Tide and Prosperity
It's "fun" to win.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I can't remember what was in the Jar deck but it
was really fast. If your just playing for fun you
could build one of those decks. I_think_it looked
like this:

4 Ritual
4 Jar
4 Lotus Petal
4 Tinker
4 Duress
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Megrim
4 Vampiric Tutor
4 Grim Monolith
3 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Windfall

20 land

Almost all of the cards are banned but were casual right?

 

[Mikeymike]

First off: Casual discard decks are never fun for your opponent

Time Spiral doesn't work with Megrim b/c Time Spiral states that you shuffle your hand into your library: you never actually discard.

I personally like Blue/Black the best for Megrim decks b/c A) Blue gives you mass card drawing/discard to use to your advantage like
Windfall
Prosperity

Red offers
Wheel of Fortune (brutal)
Blazing Spectre
Void
Shocker (1/1 can't do much w/o evasion, but if it hits, fugedaboudit)

And there is Crosis the Purger of course, Anvil of Bogardan and Memory Jar

Here's a deck list for you (stick w/ restricted list)

Creatures
2 Crosis
4 Hypnotic Spectre
4 Blazing Spectre

Permanents
4 Megrim
4 Propaganda
1 Memory Jar
3 Anvil of Bogardan

Spells
1 Mind Twist
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Windfall
3 Properity
1 Wheel of Fortune
2 Void
1 Tinker

Mana
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
4 Dark ritual
Heavier Black, then Blue, then Red. Go heavy on the multicolor

Hope this helps!

 

[DÛke]

...dislike it when someone asks for "help" and he or she ends up getting "deck lists"!

Ok, for the "help", I think I know what you're looking for: make it mono-Black. There are enough good options to make it that way.

We all know Duress WILL be in there in one form or another, right? Then add the Duress. Stupor comes to mind also.

Add 4 Howling Mines. This will keep you opponent's mind filled (and yours too), and with that, they'll be drawing more cards than to know what to do with, but YOU'LL be drawing discard spells, to HURT them with. Unmask will suit this situation really well; it combines like a dream with Howling Mine.

I would add in some fast creatures and maybe Avatar of Woe in there. Both of your graveyards will be filled so fast due to the discard, so 2 Avatar of Woes might come handy with the chance of costing only BB.

Diabolic Edict is the best creature removal spell ever to come to Black, so add that in there. Maybe Extinction? I like Extinction; it's an over costed Diabolic Edict.

That's all for now, since I'm in school, and I really don't like the teacher to see me typing this.

 

[Mikeymike]

Duke: That's odd, I was talking to my friend "Decklist" the other day and he told me he dislikes you too

If Purple Jester had a deck list up, then I agree. It would be rude to say "play this deck, its better". But she doesn't, I put a list up to give Purple Jester some ideas considering she doesn't know where she wants to take this sucker. You get different concepts as to which cards you might want to use by seeing them posted in a decklist. Plus its easier to put a deck of your own together when another deck shares components with it.

I gave her a B/U/R, The Captain gave her a Mostly B, and you gave her a Mono Black without putting it into a deck format. Might as well have, you listed about 60% of the deck components.

 

[Captain Caveman]

"I have some ideas, like using Memory Jar and Time Spiral for maximal damage." I thought this might be
an inquire for a Jar decklist.

As a general rule I try to give a decklist for reference.

I'm not trying to say_this_ decklist is the way to
go. Its just an option. I should have probably
just given a few card choices.



Caveman

 

[DÛke]

...sorry if I sounded too mean about the "deck list" thing; I wasn't trying to be; HEY! I was in school!

As for the deck, Mind Twist is also handy (one copy though). I would also play fast creatures that discard some cards one way or another. Ravenous Rats really fits in well. Maybe you should have a unique way of winning! Like some Corrupts/Drain Life/Soul Feast or whatever that is of that nature.
If you do that, forget the many small creatures.

Make it more like control (my suggestion); don't make it like "suicide" because that wouldn't be unique (not much anyway). I hope I helped.

 

[krichaiushii]

Bottomless Pit has been argued to be better than Anvil of Bogarden due to the Pit forcing a random discard, while the Anvil effectively lets people filter thier decks. Regardless, I only use the Anvil.

Zur's Wierding can work, but only in a duel. Otherwise everyone gangs up on you...

Disrupting Sceptre is a reusable form of discard, provided you have mana.

Ravenous Rats force a discard when played, while Recoil is a Boomerang and discarder in one. If taking the B/U route, Lobotomy is a mean variation on discard, and should at least be considered.

Ill-Gotten Gains forces everyone to discard their hands, but they get three cards of their choice from their graveyard in return.

Carrion Beetles let you remove cards in graveyard's from the game, as does Cremate and a few others. Tormod's Crypt removes the whole graveyard... but Planar Void is king of them all.

An interesting (and difficult) variation might be the addition of Bazaar of Wonders. This would force your opponents to do little to nothing if you have this in play, and a wide variety of permanent discard (especially the Sceptre and Anvil) in play.

Pox forces a discard, and can be a secondary win condition.

There is an enchantment that allows you to sac a creature to force a player to discard a card. I think its called Mind Slash. This could be supplemental to a Breeding Pit deck, that has additional kill power in LotP and Fallen Angel.

To echo D?e, Avatar of Woe works great in a discard deck.

If you want this for multiplayer, don't forget Unnerve!

Crosis is fun, as is Nicol Bolas, should you be fortunate enough to own one. Multicolor is now a very viable option with Invasion being out.

I think that is enough for now.

 

[Purple_jester]

Thanks for the help, boys. But let's just clarify a few things.

In Type Casual (aka. Type 1 without the P9), I remember that the Jar is restricted, yes? So is the Mind Twist ("Let's twist again, like we did last summer...") after it was removed from the banned list. I heard that Windfall was restricted, too?

Regarding the Spiral, I was thinkng of using it to refill my hand and my opponent's hand, then immediately cast more discard spells with my freed up mana. Casting Windfall after a Spiral with a Megrim in play can really hurt someone.

Here's an idea that was just reminded of (thanks, krichaiushii): What about Ill-Gotten Gains? I think that would work well with this sort of deck. I don't want to remove their graveyard cards (such as with Tormod's Crypt), because in a Megrim deck, you want them to have cards in hand for you to discard (Anvil is a great step in that direction).

[Edited by Purple_jester on 11-16-00 at 05:25 PM]

 

[Whimsical]

Megrim is pure evil. Danged schmucky card. <laughs> Enough griping. On with advice!

Try B/R. You have the added option of cheese in addition to the Megrim damage ... plus you get access to that cute Shocker feller. Put a Fire Whip on the little pest, and with a couple of mines howling away ... and pretty soon, your opponent will be demanding you play something else.

 

[Duel]

After the first 2 games, this deck got the "boo-hiss" treatment at my playgroup, and they never let my megrim resolve again, or if they did, they killed me right after.

4 Megrim
4 Prosperity
4 windfall
3 Library of leng
3 Ill-gotten gains
3 Iron maiden
4 High tide
3 Bubbling muck
4 Turnabout
4 Ivory tower
2 Crawlspace
2 Forbid
12 islands
10 swamps

 

[krichaiushii]

Other cards and themes I have tried with varying success in discard decks include:

Evacuation and Sunder -- fill those hands!

Reanimate, Animate Dead, and/or Dance of the Dead. All these cards let you pull creatures from ANY graveyard and put them in play. Bonedancer and Ashen Powder dig in others' graveyards, too.

Veiled Crocodile can be fun, what with people emptying their hands all the time...

And Duel -- no one likes my Megrim deck either, and I wasn't even rude enough to use Prosperity AND Ivory Towers. So I adapted by adding Avatars of Woe and the aforementioned Veiled Crocodiles and I just beat people to death.

But if you go the Prosperity route of forcing discards, Propaganda is a great defense, because opponents will be too worried about being able to cast stuff instead of discarding, leaving no mana to attack you with.

 

[Purple_jester]

Okay, based on your various suggestions and lookng at my available cards, here's what I've come up with so far:

The Evil Card (4):
4 Megrim

The Abuse (17):
4 Prosperity
4 Ill-gotten gains
4 Recoil
2 Wash Out
1 Windfall
1 Memory Jar
1 Black Vise

The Mana Boost (8):
4 Dark Ritual
4 High Tide

The Utility (9):
4 Forbid
2 Ivory Tower
2 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Demonic Tutor

Lands (22):
4 Underground River
12 Islands
6 Swamps

Any comment? I don't want people to hate me, so I'm not putting in 4 copies each of the Jar and Windfall. Y'know, if I follow the Type 1 restrictions maybe they'll play the deck more than once?

[Edited by Purple_jester on 11-18-00 at 11:37 AM]

 

[krichaiushii]

Overall, it looks pretty good. But...

I know the Vise is there for the Prosperities, but with all the discard in there, is it worth it?

Then again, the worst case scenario is the removal of the Megrims from the game (long shot, but possible). Aside from the single Black Vise, how do you defeat opponents?

A Faerie Conclave or two might put you over the edge, damage wise, though they do eat up mana.

It seems you have no Mind Twist available. A shame, really... (a first turn Twist for seven is EVIL).

Something that removes threat cards from opponent's graveyards may be worthwhile, as they are going to take those threat cards with Ill-Gotten Gains. Tormod's Crypt would probably work best.

An indirect method might be using Misdirection, from Alliances, I believe. Anyhow, for B, you take three cards of your choice from your opponent's graveyard, and place them on top of his library in any order you choose. An amusing stalling tactic...

Good luck with the deck!

 

[Duel]

Look, the thing about the deck is: If megrims doesn't resolve, you don't play discard, you play vise, or iron maiden (I lve group games), and watch as they groan for using their counters on megrim. Oh, and windfall, that's fun.

PJ: Type 1? Wimp. If you're gonna go for janky combos, go all they way, huh?

 

[Apollo]

I have a friend that plays more or less typical discard stuff with 4 Megrims, Hyppies, and various Drains for the kill.

4 times out of 5, the Megrims are absolutely useless for him (we play mostly fast decks and empty my hand anyway). That one other time, though, he does ridiculous stuff with Ill-Gotten Gains and ends up doing 14 damage to me in 1 turn.

I tried making a deck entirely based around this combo, for Dune Echo's contest some time back. It's an article, buried somewhere. The deck was never made, though, cause no one else I know (except my friend) has Ill-Gotten gains. So take it with a grain of salt, if you do look at it.

 

[rakso]

I would've kept the four Megrims.

I traded for four early, too, as a curiousity but never used them.

They don't work with Pox or traditional discard since you will cast the discard first with few exceptions. For similar reasons, it doesn't really work with Bottomless Pit, either, since they will end up with empty hands unless they are playing a counter-based deck.

Anvil of Bogardan isn't very good, either, since it lets them filter through their cards while taking damage, and Anvil may just help them come back into the game.

In short, for simple damage related to discard, you just can't beat the efficiency of The Rack.

Thus, Megrim is more logical with mass discard spells such as Wheel of Fortune, Windfall and Memory Jar.

Since these are restricted, you can probably base things around Shocker or whatever equivalents are playable.

I wouldn't advise pure draw effects like Howling Mine, though, since these can backfire, unless you pair these with something like Cursed Rack or Winter Orb.

 

[Duel]

ooh, shocker! Now there's a card I wish I'd thought of...

Shocking!
4 Megrim
4 Shocker
4 Hypnotic specter
4 Dark rituals
4 Wheel of fortune
3 Ill-gottne gains
3 Dark rituals
4 Vendetta
4 Snuff out
4 Lightning bolt
4 Hymn to tourach
18 lands