Chimeric Idol, should it be errata-ed?

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Hellion, Jun 11, 2000.

  1. Hellion New Member

    Chimeric Idol
    3
    Artifact
    Uncommon
    0: Tap all lands you control. Chimeric Idol becomes a 3/3 artifact creature until end of turn.

    I'm pretty stumped by this card. Here are the following questions,

    1. Does it need lands to tap as part of it's activation cost?
    2. If you do not control any lands, can u activate it into the creature?

    I still do not believe that without lands, you can activate the Idol for beatdown. My friend told me that having no lands and tapping all lands are the same. I'm not a beginner but am very much confused by the wording.

    I'd prefer if DCI errata it so it sounds clearer.

    All thoughts and suggestions welcome and thanks in advance.
  2. mogg bomber Veteran CPA Lurker

    You tap all your untapped lands when you activate it. If all your lands are already tapped, or if you have no lands, the activation cost is free.
  3. Hellion New Member

    Wat? Even without lands you can activate it? That's so unfair! Why on earthy would they print such a monstrosity?

    I don't think it would be banned but a errata would be nice, the thing is clearly broken!

    If anybody is skeptial about this, imagine getting beatdown by it when you least expect it.
  4. Apollo Bird Boy

    It would be broken if it cost 0 mana to cast. There's nothing wrong with it. If you can make a deck that works using the stupid thing to prove it's "broken," I'd like to see it.

    Apollo
  5. Seeker of Truth New Member

    Hellion:

    I'm also wondering why you think this card is broken. If you have no lands, you'd be at a severe disadvantage (unless you played Armageddon or something), so activating Chimeric Idol without a drawback actually has a high price.

    In any other situation, Chimeric Idol will leave you tapped out in order to attack with it, which I would think is quite a drawback (unless you're playing green or heavy artifact mana). I'm not saying you can't build a deck around it (Armageddon decks would work well with this card), but I seriously doubt you could make a superpowered deck based on Chimeric Idol and abusing its activation cost.
  6. Hellion New Member

    Remember Masticore? Everybody thought it was just a
    normal artifact creature. Remember Cursed Scroll? A cheesy
    artifact I heard some say. Remember Voltaic Key? What?
    Untap artfacts? I believe that once, Black Lotus was also
    given the miss.

    Artifacts are never noticed fully whenever a new set is
    released. Of all the artifacts in Masqerade Block, there's only
    a handful that are good enough for Constructed play and
    they are;

    Tangle Wire
    Rishadan Pawnshop
    Mercadian Atlas

    And now, Chimeric Idol.

    Why? you ask frantically?

    Well, I'm not really sure yet, but I do have a strange feeling
    that a new type of control deck will be created that uses
    the Idol for beatdown. This deck uses mass destruction
    spells like Tectonic Break, Flowstone Slide, Armageddon or
    Wrath of God. It might even run cards like Mageta.

    This deck will use artifact Diamonds or/and Grim Monoliths +
    Voltaic Keys for fast mana. What does Chimeric Idol do you
    ask? Well, it just sits there innocently while you blow up
    everything except it and whenever the opponent doesn't
    have a threat, have it as a beatstick.

    I have played against a Chimeric Idol deck that runs mass
    damage and mass destructive spells, it wasn't pretty. After
    the 4th turn, the only permenent left on the table was a
    lone Chimeric Idol. Honestly, I didn't like the way Chimeric
    Idol is worded. Tapping lands should be part of the
    activation cost.

    I will not reveal the decklist or contents but assure you that
    Chimeric Idol must be errata-ed. Mind you, it's voted one of
    the Top 10 cards for Prophercy in Inquest for a reason.
  7. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Think of the Idol as a kind of replacement for the old Steel Golem (you can't play creature spells) and/or that land that turns into a critter for 6 mana (Sandstone Warrior?).
    The Steel Golem was popular in Draw-Go type decks because it's drawback was irrelevant (there were no other creatures in the deck). The man-land was a logical addition, as it was not a creature spell (and it stayed a creature, colorless to boot, not like the Saga man-lands).

    Anyway....
    When is a drawback not a drawback? When it doesn't matter.
    The Idol obviously won't fit into the mana-hoggin Draw-Go decks, but another kind of counter (free counters) deck might be viable. The Idol is a teaser card, designed to have a bunch of people trying to find a way to use it. It's not nearly as good as Steel Golem, but it's pretty good...considering what we have to work with once Saga rotates from Standard.
  8. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    ****!
    A Vurt quote!
    :D

    I was about to reply to say that a 3/3 for 3 mana is never likely to be considered broken. Quick - BAN GRIZZLY BEARS!
    It`s good, and it`ll see play in MBC in non-Green decks, might even make it into T2 WWeenie as bit of muscle (unlikely, not affected by Crusade).
    But comparing a 3/3 vanilla monster (with a disadvantage) to Masticore is a bit rich, IMHO.

    Anyway - I had no idea that Noon was widely-read, I actually live in Manchester so whenever I read his stuff I actually know all the roads and housing estates he talks about, but that also meant I kind of always thought of him as a 'local writer', and not one with a larger following.
    Cool!
    I find him hard to follow - often I get knocked adrift by some turn of phrase and just have to keep on reading until I can grab onto something recognisable. But experiencing his imagination more than makes up for the humbling eperience of reading him.

    Oh yeah, and did anybody else note that in Neal Stephenson`s "Cryptonomicon" they actually go to a Magic store to meet somebody? The character`s girlfriend looks around in bewilderment at all the kids pretending to be wizards by flopping cards at each other.
    :)
    Sounded pretty ultra-realistic to me.
    :(
  9. Gryphonclaw New Member

    When rating a card for power, I generally compare it to a similar card, so;

    Chimeric Idol
    3 mana for an artifact that can become a 3/3 artifact creature until end of turn tapping all your lands.

    Very similar to Mishras factory
    0 mana for a land that can become a 2/2 artifact creature until end of turn for 1 mana, approximately tapping 1 land.
    Plus it can tap to pump itself or another factory up.

    Casting cost: The factory

    Activation cost: The idol has a very slight edge here, the factory is a constant 1, the Chimeric Idol is both 0, and all your land. So the Idol can be activated any time, while the factory is way less expensive.

    Damage dealing power: About even, with a slight edge to the idol, as it's a constant three, whereas the factory is about 2.7 on average, i.e. 2 much of the time, 3 some of the time, and 4 occasionally.

    Mortality: The factory is, on average, easier to kill, but not by much.
    They are both susceptible to artifact destruction, the idol all of the time, the factory part of the time.
    The factory is only a tad more susceptible to damage, and then only when it's attacking, but it's two toughness brings it in the shock/seal of flame range.
    The factory is susceptible to land destruction, wich is common but not commonly played.

    So I'd say that the idol is not broken, any more than mishras factory is broken.

    I know that this is very rough, but that's my opinion.
  10. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    It was the cover to Vurt that first grabbed my attention. The US edition I got is bright orange, like Day-Glo(tm) Orange, with Noon's name in the comlimentary sky blue. There are two Yellow feathers on the cover as well. It hurts my eyes to look at it...

    With an Arthur C. Clarke Award and positive cover blurbs from Clive Barker (whom, by the way, I don't read much...talk about hard to follow :)) and review excerpts from The Times (London) and BBC I, how could I not give it a try? Especially considering that it was in the discount bin at Wal-Mart for like two dollars! It's amazing what the general public misses out on...

    On topic:

    C'mon, Chimeric Idol is a great thing to bust in sealed, and it's a killer draft pick. But broken? Not by any means.

    And...
    Since it's so damned cool, here it is again... (until I change it)
  11. Im not a great magic player, I only play for fun I really dont get a chance to play in tournaments. I dont think the idol is that great of card, Im sure it will be good in some decks in my eyes I just see a 3/3 for three, and with the fat thats being played now a 3/3 isnt all that. Then again what do i know im just your average player. I think the best deck it may be good for is a ld deck.
  12. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Having a lot of the older cards, this looks good with Power Surge.
  13. Major Crime New Member

    How about putting it in burn decks, which use a lot of the "do damage to all creatures in play" decks. Would work well, esp' for defending, eg, Annouce attackes, tap all land into burn, announce blokes step, make creature(s) for zero & oh tap that last land, right I block with these creatures which are at full strength still.

    Also how about with that white creature wraith of god. You will just have to play all cards before attacking.
  14. Seeker of Truth New Member

    Spiderman:

    Inquest actually printed a decklist that used the Idol with the new Power Surge, Citadel of Pain. Since Citadel of Pain deals damage equal to the number of untapped lands a player controls at the end of his or her turn, the Idol is a great idea for being able to tap out at will.

    Hellion:

    Even if the errata said that the Idol's ability was "tap all lands you control: Chimeric Idol becomes a 3/3 artifact creature until end of turn," I don't think it would affect the way the mechanic works because if you have no lands, you can still tap all lands you control; you don't have any lands, but you're still fulfilling the wording of the ability. Maybe if they added "if you control no untapped lands, you may not play Chimeric Idol's ability" it would agree more with the way you want it to work, but I think the result would be a card no one would want to play, and I'd rather have a card that people play because it's broken than a totally useless card no one wants to play with.
  15. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Actually, if Chimeric Idol read "Tap all lands you control: ~blah,blah~" you would have to have all untapped lands in order to play it.
    Tapping as a cost requires you to be able to actually tap something (that isn't already tapped). That's why the ability is worded the way it is.
  16. Hellion New Member

    That's why I want the card to be errata-ed. It's quite confusing and the activation cost is unrealistic. Rystic Cave got errata-ed. Why not this?

    I still feel strongly that tapping lands should be part of it';s activation cost, not condition.
  17. Y The Alien Deity

    Tag Guard

    Actually, anything that requires you to tap, discard, or otherwise use an unspecified amount (I.E, all your X, half your X) of a resource does not actually require you to have that resource available to you. You can use a Null Brooch when you have no cards in hand. Under 5th Edition rules, you could Infernal Contract at 0 life. ProsBloom regularly used that little cheat to find a Drain Life to get back in the positives. Plus, Chaos Turtle, Chimeric Idon IS worded "Tap all lands you control: ~blah blah~". The official FAQ stated that you can use the ability when all your lands are tapped, and when you have no lands.
  18. Y The Alien Deity

    Tag Guard

    I seem to be slipping. Ignore most of my last post.
  19. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    (heh-heh)
    No worries, Y, it happens to the best of us (that being me, of course ;)).

    Hellion, pay attention, now...

    The "tap all lands you control" is not part of any "condition."* It is in fact part of the effect of the ability. Tapping lands is in no way a cost. You can have any number of lands, tapped or untapped, even zero lands, and still use this ability. This is how it is intended to work, so there is no need for errata.
    Yes, Chimeric Idol can work very well with Wrath of God, or Armageddon, or spells/abilities similar effects. These combos are far, far from broken.

    How is it confusing? You simply go, "I activate Chimeric Idol's ability." When that ability resolves, you tap all your lands and the Idol becomes a 3/3.

    What errata would you suggest? Make tapping the lands a part of the activation cost? How would you word it? I've already pointed out what "Tap all lands you control:~blah~" actually means. Maybe you think the ability should include "you may only play this ability if you control a land." Again, that is clearly not what R&D intended (as evidenced by the FAQ).

    For reference:
    Cheers. :cool:

    *If it was a condition, it would use the word, "if." Maybe "0: If you control a land, tap all lands you control..." But that's not what it says, and hopefully not what you're suggestiong it should say.

    ps - About Masticore... I knew Masticore. Masticore was a friend of mine. Chimeric Idol, sir, is no Masticore.
  20. Hellion New Member

    Yes, I agree with you.

    However, this is not the first time R & D gave the players something they thought wasn't broken and in fact it is. R & D always makes mistakes. I think in MM block, Chimeric Idol is the first one.

    At least make Chimeric Idol a rare instead of an uncommon.

    Well, if it can't get errated, let it be banned in MM block constructed. If Lin Sivvi and Rishadan Port can be banned, so can it be for Chimeric Staff.

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