By means of introduction: my first post

H

Heavy B

Guest
I've removed all of the introductory text from this post and will - going forward - update the deck and my current thoughts here until I get a winner.

Revised 05/10/2006

Deck List:

Lands:

Swamp 18
Strip Mine 4

Creatures:

4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Bottle Gnomes
4x Insidious Bookworms
4x Khabal Ghoul
4x Hells Caretaker (added)


Spells:

4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Duress
1x Mind Twist
4x Skullclamp
4x The Rack
3x Grave Pact
1x Demonic Tutor
Removed 3 Haunted Crossroads
Removed 2x Dark Ritual, 2x Drain Life. Add 4x Duress

05/10 - Out of respect for Limited I' won't change any future posts (sorry guys, I'm new here and on a non-gaming board that I frequent it's common to give updates in early posts).

Since this one has already been chopped up I'll keep rolling with it.

I've addressed my discard woes to a degree with the 4 Duress. I like the Gravepact comboed w/ the Gnomes and the Clamp to help w/ creature control.

I have the typical Black problem of no artifact or ench control and I still think I may need more discard. Thanks for all the help. Back to the drawing board. Also considering some form of token critter. Without DR it will be tough to use Triskelion or Tetravus versus weenie swarms unless I cycle them with Caretaker (which also comes late versus Sligh, Suicide Black, or Stompy) Will advise.


Prior post below :::::

Looking at this...now I wonder if it has sufficient discard ?!?!? Grr... 4 Hymns will come up...the Hippie will get me some...but damn...I like the Skullclamp on the Gnomes and even on the Bookworms...xcept that it requires B2 / round to Clamp the worms and utilize their discard effect.

Then again B2 for a three card advantage is a winner.

Question: Do token critters trigger the Clamp's card drawing ability? When last I was about it was adjudged that token critters went briefly to the graveyard before leaving the game and thus would trigger "go to graveyard" effects. Is this still the case?

If so I'm thinking about getting rid of the Worms and subbing some Token generators as chump blockers and working the Triskelion, Mindless Automaton type of combo. The other concern is still permanent removal but I think I'm stuck if I want to run it straight black.
 

Ransac

CPA Trash Man
WHOA! Talk about getting right to the point!

Welcome to the forums! The others should be around shortly to help you with your deck.

Me? Why, I'm just here for the free samples....



Ransac, cpa trash man
 
J

jorael

Guest
Welcome!

One deck can't have all the answers you might theoretically need. And when I make a deck based on some idea it often takes a lot of cards to work, without even thinking about adding cards for removal (creatures, enchantments, artifacts, lands). I just accept it.

Then again, our playgroup has many players that regularly make new decks. So even if I lose to an enchantment I can't do anything against, I know that my chances will be different the next game. Some capability for removal is always nice, though...

With your deck, I would add blue for Recoil. That common takes out any permanent if you have emptied their hand! I would drop the Strip Mines (isn't that card restricted or banned in all formats?) for islands (or Ravnica Guildlands). Adding blue gives you access to counterspell, card drawing and more bounce. Consult the Necrosages is also a good common that fits the theme. And a black rare that is cute to add is Abyssal Nocturnus (a walking Megrim, sort of...).

Haunted Crossroads is a very cool card that combo's with a lot of different cards, but if I see correctly you only use it to return creatures. Aren't there better ways? Hell's Caretaker, Death Denied, etc.

Khabal Ghoul is awesome, but is it perfect in this deck? I would use it with milling cards (see the black-blue cards in Ravnica) or dredge creatures like Stinkweed Imp (a personal favorite of mine).

Anyway, I suggest a lot of cards and I don't know if you got them. My advice is to obtain a playset of all the commons (and uncommons) of the latest sets. For not too much cash you get a lot of cards use and design decks :D

Good luck!
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
jorael said:
I would drop the Strip Mines (isn't that card restricted or banned in all formats?)
In tournament formats yes, but his playgroup has its own rules (it says so in his sig).
 
L

Lythand

Guest
Heavy B said:
Hello to everyone. I came across these boards via a Google search and I really like the overall tone and tenor here and decided to register. .....Thanks to everyone.

Lol stay away from the "you are a punk" thread then.

To these forums I welcome you. Your post, interesting it is. Long gone, I have been as well. Returned recently I have. Around Invasion I did quit. Enjoy it here you will.
 
H

Heavy B

Guest
Oversoul said:
Would you consider Necropotence?
(Maniacal laugh) When I played regularly I had a really spiffy Necro deck and I have fond remembrences of the power of the Dark Side during the Black Summer. Matter of fact...I still have that deck...it's changed a bit but it's still fun.

I hadn't considered Necro in this deck but that certainly doesn't mean that I won't. Necro's so specialized and this deck isn't built around it. I've play-tested it against my Sligh and Suicide Black decks and it plays from behind against those. I'm using Skullcap / Gnomes just to stay alive and in several rounds versus I rarely had sufficient life to spend on Necro.

Maybe a one-shot like Necrologia ?

In any case, Skullcap + Gnomes or + Worms generates a moderate opportunity for card drawing in addition to the occasional life gain and discard. I really like those cards in combination - really good for a casual deck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jorael
I would drop the Strip Mines (isn't that card restricted or banned in all formats?)
In tournament formats yes, but his playgroup has its own rules (it says so in his sig).
Yes. The group that I play with is OK w/ Strip Mines. Well. Not OK as in "Thanks for Strip Mining me!" But OK w/ including 4 in a deck. I'm open to substituting them; they're there mostly because they're also in my Necro deck and my (former) MB Control deck and they serve well in both those decks as disruption.

Haunted Crossroads is a very cool card that combo's with a lot of different cards, but if I see correctly you only use it to return creatures. Aren't there better ways? Hell's Caretaker, Death Denied, etc.
I hadn't considered the Caretaker. That would combo well with Skullcapping the sacced creature and has the benefit that the graveyard creature is returned directly to play. I like that. The only thing that causes me some concern is that it's a pretty fragile creature. Then again this is a Black deck. Nothing should stay dead for very long :)

Thanks for the responses. Please keep 'em coming if you see something that needs fixing.
 
D

DarthFerret

Guest
If you are hesitant about including the Hell's Caretaker, there is a simple alternate combo that may change your mind. Put in 2 Caretakers, and 2 Triskelions and 2 Tetravus. Cycle them when needed to either pop a creature (Triskelion) or create a ton of 1/1 flyers for defense....(you can also add all of them back to a Tetravus later for a large creature defense or swing to win).

If you cannot tell, the Caretaker is one of my favorite black cards, although I usually trend more towards blue (Library removal especially).
 
L

Limited

Guest
Welcome to the boards!
And the award for clearest opening statement goes to ... HeavyB!

I didn't start playing until Mirage, so I am used to decks which are more budget minded (in my playgroup, there is no need to ban the power 9 :) ) but I'll throw out some suggestions and you can pick the ones you like.

Add blue
Oh, Jorael beat me to it. Anyway, I wanted to reiterate how nice bounce complements discard; Boomerang and Recoil take care of artifacts and enchantments. Do you happen to have any Shadowmage Infiltrators?

Add white
This will give you acces to Disenchant and Vindicate, but also new spells like Shrieking Grotesque or something cool like Gerrard's Verdict.
Do you play mostly multiplayer or more one-on-one duals? With multiplayer decks I usually find upping the amount of creatures gives a deck some resilience. You could expand on the Haunted Crossroads-Skullclamp theme by adding Ravenous Rats or Chittering Rats. Perhaps even a Ghost-Lit Stalker?
If you choose to add more creatures, Lifeline becomes very nasty (especially when combined with Skullclamp and Ravenous Rats).

Oh, and Akroma's Vengeance is a nice reset button, especially after you empty their hand :)

Add Red
Well, at least it gives you artifact destruction, but enchantments will still be a problem :(
You could play or even Blazing Specter or the new Hellhole Rats.. And Lavaborn Muse might be a back-up for the Rack.
I had a B/R discard deck once that used Chain of Smog and Guerilla Tactics..
Do you still buy cards? How you seen the Hellbent mechanic in Dissension?

Or just keep it mono-black
But then I would add discs or up the number of direct damage (aka Drain Life). Dropping the Strip Mines for Cabal Coffers and adding some additional Swamps might give you an alternate win condition (but this might turn the deck away from being a discard deck and turn it towards becoming a MBC deck)

What are the enchantments/artifacts that hinder you the most? Which are played in your playgroup?

edit: Some of the links seem to be dead.. very strange.
Hellhole Rats, Ghost-Lit Stalker, shrieking grotesque
 
L

Lythand

Guest
Just to let you know, the dew sets recently released, were designed to wreck the old cards. Playing with some friends who continued to play through out the years, have amassed cards that just totaly destroy my decks. Keep that in mind.
 
L

Limited

Guest
Huh? Can you give some examples of cards designed to wreck old cards/decks?
 
H

Heavy B

Guest
Wow.

Such good and immediate input for a new guy.

Thank you all very much.

I really want to keep this deck mono black simply because that's how I remember it.

I'll be building a blue / black deck w/ Lobotomy, Jester's cap, and similar cards for disruption. I'm busily searching the various sites w/ search engines to come up to speed on the new cards so maybe Lobotomy and the Cap make you guys giggle but when I left the game they were pretty stout in casual constructed and even saw play in my the PT qualifiers. The theme will be to either sacrifice my recursing creatures or steal theirs and sacrifice them to the Altar of Dementia. Also a player is the new card the name of which I cannot recall but I believe it's UB target player mills 10 cards (do people say "mill" anymore? :) ).

But never fear, Limited. I truly appreciate your suggestions and though they may not go in this deck your time was not wasted. I'll certainly use your suggestions as I continue to upgrade my current decks and build future ones. I assure that Shadowmage Infiltrators will be in the mail headed to me soon because they fit perfectly to help me with card advantage in the above deck.

To answer another question - I love duels. I don't want to post too much background on what I've played in the past b/c I don't want to appear to be establishing phantom board cred but I've played "competitively" in the past (on a comic/card shop sponsored team that was prepped for Pro Tour Qualifiers before the team broke up b/c someone had to leave town for a family emergency and we couldn't find a suitable replacement on short notice).

I will be getting together with this playgroup in July. The four of us are getting together for a week and among other things (Texas hold 'em, anyone?) a lot of Magic will be played. Much if not most of it will be group games which are generally played free-for-all. The dueling decks will be for those times where we get tired of multiplayer or when I and someone else get knocked out of a game quickly enough to squeeze in a duel on the side.

I understand the deckbuilding concepts that were prevalent at the time - mana curve, card advantage, card synergy, cluster decks, casting cost efficiency etc. However. By no means do I know it all and it's clearly obvious that I don't know the current card mix so anything that you'd like to teach me I'd love to use to beat my friends into gooey red spots across the table.

Thanks again, everyone. I'll test the Caretakers w/ some "comes into play" critters if I can find some that work in this deck and with the counter bearing creatures noted above.
 
D

DarthFerret

Guest
For the U/B deck with Lobotomies, try a few cards that I used. Tormod's crypt will take thier entire graveyard out of play, then you can Time Spiral to reset the game (minus their RFG gards...heh heh.)

Braingyeser is an excellent win condition in the end. High Tide will help get the blue mana needed to power it (also works good for a time spiral so you can continue playing after you draw the cards and untap your land....).

There is also a black card (help me out with the name guys) that will take every card in your opponents graveyard, and remove it along with every copy in thier hands and library....
 
H

Heavy B

Guest
Lol...thanks, Ferret.

The idea has me excited.

I generally gravitate to various control related decks: primarily mono black, blue/black discard/board control and blue/white permission.

My buddies will frequently admonish me to "Stop all that sissy sh** and come out and fight like a man!" I know that I'm in good shape when I hear "Just let me know when I can play again."

I'll introduce the U/B Lobotmoy deck in a new thread once I have my discard woes wrapped up. I don't want to go too far off-topic in this thread but I thank you for your input.

BTW, we're almost neighbors: I'm near Dallas.

:Tips cap to fellow Texan:
 

Ransac

CPA Trash Man
I used to be a Texan! I lived in El Paso!


*DarthFerret and Heavy B snub their noses at Ransac, who used to live in the OutHouse of Texas.*



Ransac, cpa trash man
 
H

Heavy B

Guest
I used to be a Texan! I lived in El Paso!


*DarthFerret and Heavy B snub their noses at Ransac, who used to live in the OutHouse of Texas.*
Umm...yeah. El Paso doesn't really count.

Disclaimer: I'm not a native Texan so Darth may be snubbing his nose at me as well. I moved here from Louisiana 11 years ago. In about 80 more years the locals may accept me as one of their own. :)
 
L

Lythand

Guest
Limited said:
Huh? Can you give some examples of cards designed to wreck old cards/decks?

Well for example there has been more emphisis on multicolor decks in Standard format. Cards like Voidslime which not only counters spells, but abilities as well. Industrucable artifacts like Darksteel ingot. Basically what6 I am getting at is that tWOTC is slowy trying to work away from a Metagame and more towards a randomness in winning. Instead of having the "I win" deck, you have more of a chance of not knowing whats going to go down. Although there will never be an elimination of the metagame, it has been braudend(sp?).
 
D

DarthFerret

Guest
Heavy B said:
Umm...yeah. El Paso doesn't really count.

Disclaimer: I'm not a native Texan so Darth may be snubbing his nose at me as well. I moved here from Louisiana 11 years ago. In about 80 more years the locals may accept me as one of their own. :)
Well, now, I am not a Native Texan either, but I got here as soon as I could! :D

Oversoul, I found that with my deck, Megrim and Urza's Guilt got in the way of my library removal. I run Megrims with the Guilt, Recoil, and Warped Devotion in a different deck, and it is nasty....
 
H

Heavy B

Guest
Lythand said:
Well for example there has been more emphisis on multicolor decks in Standard format. Cards like Voidslime which not only counters spells, but abilities as well. Industrucable artifacts like Darksteel ingot. Basically what6 I am getting at is that tWOTC is slowy trying to work away from a Metagame and more towards a randomness in winning. Instead of having the "I win" deck, you have more of a chance of not knowing whats going to go down. Although there will never be an elimination of the metagame, it has been braudend(sp?).
I hope this is true.

Back in the day it was Necro or anti-Necro. Sligh or Prot Red White Weenie. Super fast goblin decks or slow white/blue control / mill.

Too much depended on match ups. Then again, the game was not as mature as it is today and the internet was not as common a resource for deckbuilders.

While overall I am a total internet junkie it did contribute to the proliferation of "recipe decks". I'd love for the Standard to become a format more similar to casual in that a large and diverse number of deck ideas would be viable rather than the focused one-trick pony killing tools that often cycle onto the tournament scene as blocks change.

On the other hand I'm sure that it contributed to the popularity of the game and that without it the game would be dramatically different today if even it was remembered at all.
 
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