Bounce/Blinking Deck

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Rakarth, Sep 14, 2008.

  1. Rakarth New Member

    Upon seeing Mistmeadow Witch from Shadowmoor and the instant based on her, Turn to Mist, I began thinking about all the cool abilities tacked on creatures reading as "When ~ comes into play....". Anything from Vedalken Dismisser to Big Game Hunter could becomes decent reusable effects.

    Anyway, I cobbled together a deck out of anything I could find and it turned out something like this:

    9 Island
    1 Mystic Gate
    12 Plains

    3 Cloudstone Curio
    3 Turn To Mist
    2 Reality Acid
    2 Prison Term
    3 Faith's Fetters

    3 Goldenglow Moth
    1 Twilight Shepherd
    1 Angel of Salvation
    1 Sage of Epityr
    2 Dust Elemental
    2 Stormfront Riders
    2 Flickerwisp
    2 Vedalken Dismisser
    2 Whitemane Lion
    1 Cryptic Annelid
    2 Absolver Thrull
    2 Mistmeadow Witch
    2 Riftwing Cloudskate
    2 Calciderm

    As you can see, this deck is a little all over the place but I feel that this can work if I tune it right :)

    I think that it's better as a control deck and I'm not sure about another colour at the moment. The cloudstone curio was added because it works nicely with the Stormfront Riders and the mana cost of the cards I want to play isn't that high. Also it allows me to rescue a second creature with a Whitemane Lion or rescue itself and another creature.

    I'm having trouble deciding the direction of the deck at the moment. I don't know if the Mistmeadow Witch herself is too higher cost (for her ability) and whether I should just stick to Turn To Mist and the Curio. The Curio allows me to move my enchantments as well which is nice with Reality Acid and Prison Term allowing to kill a creature and attach Prison Term.

    I guess I'm looking for better creatures with CIP abilities, more bounce or kill abilities like Big Game Hunter's. Any help or thoughts are appreciated, on aything, direction of the deck, improvements cards, anything :D

  2. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    You should read this. Abe Sargent is one of the best casual writers, and one of his pet decks is based on Fleetfoot panther and Equilibrium. Fleetfoot panther is a gating creature, like Whitemane lion. I really liked the Equinaut-idea, and after reading that article I started building the deck myself. But then Time spiral block was printed, with cards like Momentary blink and Whitemane lion. And blinking stuff in and out of play was apparently pretty strong, as it became the base of a solid type 2 deck.

    Which pretty much destroyed my enthousiasm about the archetype. Anyway, removing stuff from the game has apparently become a solid part of white's part of the color pie. Still, I think Equilibrium belongs in the deck. One obscure card you might want to look at is Ghostway. Returning creatures at end of turn saves your creatures from Wrath (unlike Momentary blink) and still keeps them in play.
  3. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    I'd say play Aven Riftwatcher over the Moths, you gain the same amount of life when you blink it, but it has a better body.
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    What format are you going for? Standard, Vintage, any?
  5. Rakarth New Member

    No format really, just casual play. I suppose I'm technically on a budget and if pushed I also suppose I prefer to play cards from Extended because they're easier for me to get hold of and the group I play with are more likely to know them.

    I did look at Azorius Aethermage, 1WU for a 1/1 (I think) and pay 1 whenever a permanent is returned to my hand to draw a card. Similar to Equilibrium but I don't know how useful as I could find creatures with draw effects on them like Mulldrifter.


    EDIT: How many equilibrium do you think for this deck, 3 or is it so key that it should be 4?

    How about Familiar's Ruse? A counterspell from Lorwyn for UU that also returns a creature to my hand?
  6. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    It's depending on what kind of deck you want to build. Do you want an equilibrium deck or a blink deck? What lands do you have available? Because with 1UU you're solidly into blue. Plus you need white for gating... (or black for Grave pact :D Because that's the other way you can take with evoke.) Anyway, Equilibrium plus Mulldrifter, that's a good base. I think you'd really want green as well, for Mystic snake. Green is good for mana fixing (something like coiling oracle is solid).
  7. Rakarth New Member

    I think Equilibrium would be solid in a deck that uses the CIP abilities I want to focus on, it means that in addition to getting whatever the ability is, I get to bounce something as well. With a Cloudstone Curio in play then things will be flying off the table :p

    Turn To Mist and Mistmeadow Witch would probably still work in the deck, more so the instant I think, 2 mana and it saves either my creatures or stops an opponents creature for a turn if I can't deal with it.

    It does seem that I'm going to have to go into green to get the best out of this deck although I was looking at black for some of the best effects, mainly for straight out kill effects. Is black viable while still playing this type of deck, i.e not grave pact :)

  8. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    Isn't Equilibrium strictly superior to Cloudstone curio? Besides the double blue in the casting cost, but that's manageable. As for splashing black, if you'd go with cards like Wood elves (plus bayou/overgrown tomb) you can splash any color you want. The question is: for what?

    Black's 187 is good for killing creatures (most notably Shriekmaw), but why kill if you can bounce or steal (Gilded drake! That card seems to come up a lot recently)? If you really need to kill creatures, play StP and Eternal witness to recur it. As for everything else black is good at, discard and tutoring, do you really need that?
  9. Rakarth New Member

    I see your point about black, killing is the only thing I was really looking at but if I get consistent bounce then I'll be ok :)

    I don't know how Equilibrium is superior to the Curio, could you explain? I look at it in terms of the Curio giving me the option to bounce another of my creatures for free. I suppose that Equilibrium does the same thing for anything and a single mana so I'll see how they fare in the same deck. I did use the Curio to bounce stuff like Reality Acid and to move Faith's Fetters and Prison Term around although I doubt they'll be in the deck anymore considering the amount of control from creatures.

    Is Meddling Mage worth it for this deck? I do play against a lot of single creatures and spells that ruin me, most notably the spirit avatars from Shadowmoor and Eventide. Other players have a penchant for playing combo or storm decks and the ability to see the threat and thwart it for a while would be helpful I think.

  10. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    With Equilibrium you can bounce your opponent's creatures, with Curio you can only bounce your own stuff. The difference is that with Curio if you want to bounce an opposing creature you'd need a card that bounces opposing creatures. If you play Equilibrium, you don't need that specific card but you can focus on ""good cards". Curio lets you replay your creatures, Equilibrium lets you replay your creatures AND control the board. That's a huge difference.

    Meddling mage seems like a good creature for any UW(and green) control deck. If you have it, why not? If you don't... well, a bunch of counterspells seem just as good. Try Counterbalance. There are some creatures that fit the theme and that are good against combo: Seht's tiger, Aven mindcensor and Stonecloaker. Counters plus bounce should take care of Avatars. Oh, and Gilded drake. And so does StP.
  11. Rakarth New Member

    I can see your point on the Curio and I'll see how the deck performs without it.

    How would you build the mana base for this, evenly spread all three colours or go for more green and use it to fix the other two with coiling oracle and Rampant Growth/Kodama's Reach etc?

    How many Equilibrium would you run, for something so vital it has to be four doesn't it? Especially as having another in your hand and one in play isn't going to be as bad as not having one at all.

    Is Stonecloaker better than Whitemane Lion as a rescue creature? 1 more mana and the ability to remove cards from the graveyard is better now that the Retrace is starting to filter into casual play.

  12. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    You can have multiple Equilibriums on the board ;) Yes, I think 4 is the right number. As for mana fixing, I'd go for Wood elves if you have duals, or Civic wayfinder if you don't. It's depending on the lands you have available. If you have fetches, play brainstorm. Well, play Brainstorm anyway, it's good. You could also play Wall of roots, or just simply Birds of Paradise. I wouldn't play non-creature land search (well, try terramorphic expanse; I mean: no kodama's reach). I think green is the third color in the deck, and you need more blue than the other colors.

    As for the gating creatures: I'd run several, but not all of them as a four-of. 4 Stonecloakers seem like a lot, but then again: it has evasion and more power. Whitemane lion is cheaper, but sucks in every other aspect. You already have the Dust elemental, which seems like a good finisher. 4x Stonecloaker, 2x Dust elemental, and 4x Equilibrium, if you can't bounce enough of your own creature with that setup... don't forget to add some other creatures with flash (to return evoked creatures), like Aven mindcensor and Mystic snake (Draining whelk?). Cloudthresher against weenie flyers and as a finisher, Scryb ranger for utility (but doesn't work with Equilibrium)... You could also add Saffi and Reveillark.

    Some cards I found searching for "flash" that are worth noticing: Teferi and Venser, Voidmage husher and Plaxmanta.

    EDIT: don't forget momentary blink.
  13. Rakarth New Member

    For the mana base I've a few of the Shadowmoor and Eventide non-basic land, Wooded Bastion, Mystic Gate and Reflecting Pool, and otherwise Coiling Oracle seems solid.

    Plaxmanta is one cards I've been looking to get hold of, 1U for one-shot total shroud is great. Teferi I think might be out of range of the mana base but Voidmage Husher is good :) Saffi seems good and one or two might be helpful but Reveillark would have to go in based on the creatures I have already, it can return Whitemane Lions, Mystic Snake, Mulldrifters and Venser so maybe 1-2 as the evoke cost is expensive?

    Is Aven Mindcensor worth it when I could have cheaper flash creatures like Zealous Guardian? Is Momentary Blink strictly better than Turn To Mist in this case even though it only targets my creartures? I suppose the offensive power will come from blinking and bouncing as opposed to 'misting' the opposing creatures?

    Is there anything for returning my evoke creatures just in case I lose them or need them without being able to rescue them? Evolution Charm maybe? It can help fix land if I need it or create a flying blocker?

    Thanks for all your help :D

  14. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    What a lot of questions ;)

    OK. You have reflecting pool, try the Simic land as well. If you don't need to have the deck Extended legal, try Sensei's divining top. It's great with Coiling oracle, only uses colorless mana and helps smooth out draws. Look for some shuffle effect.

    You do know about the combo, don't you? The Equinaut article mentions Momir Vig. That seems like a solid choice. Or something like Worldly tutor. Tutor effects also shuffle your deck, good with aforementioned SDT!

    It's good and annoying utility. I'd run 1.

    Blink has flashback. If you run enough Eternal witnesses you don't need the flashback.

    Eh, bring back from where? The yard? Try Eternal witness.

    EDIT: fixed tags.
  15. Rakarth New Member

    Gotta love questions, they make the world go round :p

    I should think more before I suggest an instant in a deck based around CIP abilities when Eternal Witness is there :) Momir Vig is definately going in as a tutor as I don't have access to any others.

    What about cards which return creatures to your hand as a drawback like Trusted Advisor or Cache Raiders? The Raiders might be too expensive, 3UU for a 4/4 with "return a permanent I control to it's owners hand at the beginning of my upkeep", but Trusted Advisor increases my hand size by two and makes me return a blue creature to my hand at the beginning of my upkeep and is only U.

    I think I have to run Eternal Witness but I see how often my creatures die as to how many I take :p

  16. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    I was thinking: instead of Equilibrium you could also go with Astral Slide. I'm not sure if you need a lot more creatures that return your own creatures back to your hand. Sure, it fits the theme, but you will get dependent on having a creature in play to begin with. Beware!
  17. Rakarth New Member

    One other question I've been turning over in my head. Should Stormfront Riders be in the deck at all? A 4/3 flyer isn't bad but it's 4W and makes me return two creatures I control to my hand. Every time a creature is returned I get a 1/1 Soldier token but the riders seems a little bit slow and aren't really a finisher at all. Dust Elemental or Sabertooth Nishoba make the main punch at the moment. I'm thinking of cutting them unless I here anyarguments as to why not :)

  18. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    It's white, so it doesn't trigger Momir Vig. I'd cut it.
  19. Rakarth New Member

    Right then, after a little while away from this post I present to you what I have :) The deck is still a little unfinished as I'm having trouble getting hold of a fourth and final Equilibrium but it's close.


    5 Plains
    7 Islands
    5 Forests
    1 Tranquil Garden
    1 Mystic Gate
    2 Wooded Bastion
    1 Reflecting Pool
    2 Seaside Citadel (The three colour land from Alara in GUW for those unfamiliar)

    Main Deck
    3 Equilibrium (Need 4 but still not got it)
    3 Drift of Phantasms (Finds Equilibrium at the moment and can be bounced to hand to get another if they kill an Equilibrium in play)
    2 Coiling Oracle
    2 Momir Vig (great combo with the above, gets my creatures and land :))
    2 Elvish Visionary (Cheap card draw on a green creature to trigger Momir Vig)
    2 Civic Wayfinder (Lack of Coiling Oracle led me to these but will be cut when I get more Oracles)
    3 Sage of Epityr (Great at smoothing out my land draws and cheap as I get bounce as well)
    3 Ashcoat Bear (Green flash for two, decent size and triggers Vig)
    2 Zealous Guardian (U or W flash, really annoys people when he comes out of nowhere as a chump and bounces a creature, think I should run more?)
    1 Aven Mindcensor
    3 Momentary Blink (Awesome :))
    1 Absolver Thrull
    1 Nikko-Onna (Both of these are enchant destruction on cretures)
    1 Meddling Mage
    3 Stonecloaker
    1 Whitemane Lion
    2 Dust Elemental
    1 Qasali Ambusher

    Ok then, there it is. There are cards in there that I am full aware are not exactly seeing tournament play :p but they're what I've got at the moment. Equilibrium is a must and I will get hold of one asap but the rest of the deck is kind of a make do with that which I have. At the moment Eternal Witness isn't in the deck but it hasn't really been tested against stiff opposition yet so I don't know how useful it will be. There are also no evoke creatures in here, mainly because I have nothing from Lorwyn/Morningtide, but also because I didn't feel that there was anything worth putting in in place of anything else.

    Any suggestions are always welcome, Rakarth
  20. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    Looks solid. As a land you could run Treva's ruins, a lair from planeshift (or something). I'd say it's almost better than Seaside citadel because it doesn't come into play tapped, but you do have to return a land to your hand. Worth to take a look I guess.

    I also like the single Qasali ambusher. That's guaranteed to annoy some people.

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