Bomb Squad

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Darth Dunk, Dec 6, 2001.

  1. Darth Dunk New Member

    Bomb Squad 3R
    Creature - Dwarf
    T: Put a fuse counter on target creature.
    At the beginning of your upkeep put a fuse counter on each creature that has a fuse counter on it.
    Whenever a creature has four or more fuse counters on it, remove all fuse counters from it and destroy it. That creature deals 4 damage to its controller.

    If I respond to the upkeep ability by tapping to put a fuse counter on a creature that didn't already have one, will that creature get one from the upkeep-triggered ability?

    I think it will since the ability should check for the monsters it will affect when it resolves, not when it triggers. Please confirm or correct.
  2. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I would agree with you but am not 100% positive (it's early :) )
  3. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    I believe that's right.

    The upkeep-triggered ability doesn't target and doesn't ask you to make any choices, so will evaluate the clause "each creature that has a fuse counter on it" when it resolves.
  4. EricBess Active Member

    Such devotion and commitment to your answers, guys :). Well, you are all definitely correct. The only question you have to ask is if the Bomb Squad's ability is a conditional trigger. If it were, it would be worded something like:

    "At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are any creatures with fuse counters..."

    It is not worded like this. It is not a conditional trigger. Further note that it is not conditional on where the fuse counter came from. If you have multiple Bomb Squads in play, you can multiply the effect. Two Bomb Squads is enough to give 2 creatures 3 counters each or to kill 1 creature exactly each upkeep. With 3 in play, you can kill 3 creatures each upkeep.

    What's more, destroying the creature is not a condition of the damage. So, each Bomb Squad will independently trigger and have the creature deal 4 damage to the controller. With 3 Bomb Squads in play, you can kill 3 creatures during your upkeep and your opponent will take 36 pts of damage from those creatures.

    Basically, if you can get around that 1 toughness problem, this card is pretty darn good.
  5. WarWolf New Member

    I had a Bomb Squad at the Prerelease, and everyone is right.
  6. EricBess Active Member

    Uh, thanks, but it was already verified by a judge ;)
  7. rkoelsch Angel Boy

    Eric so your saying if I had 2 active Bomb squads in play. they can kill 1 creature a turn doing 8 damage to the controller 4 for each Bomb Squad?
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    The two will trigger at the start of upkeep, you activate both to place two counters on the creature, and then the two resolved, putting another two on the creature for a total of 4, triggering the rest of the Bomb Squad's ability.
  9. Darth Dunk New Member

    But are you sure? If there are more than one Squad out, will the abilities that try to destroy the creature that went on the stack first still resolve as normal since at that point the creatures have no counters on them? Part of the ability states that it removes all counters from those creatures before destroying them, so surely when they come to resolve they would find no counters on them and be stopped. Would the ability about to detroy it still do so or would it be prevented such as with conditional 'at beginning of upkeep' triggers like Oath of Druids and hence not do 4 damage?
  10. EricBess Active Member

    There are specific rules that handle conditional triggers. Neither of the Bomb Squad's abilities fit into this category. Oath of Druids does. Both Bomb Squads will trigger when a creature has 4 counters on it.

    Next point, notice the difference in wording between Bomb Squad and say, Standstill. Standstill has the phrase "if you do...", Bomb Squad doesn't. That means that Bomb Squad's damage ability is not dependent upon whether or not it can actually remove counters and destroy the creature.

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