Attention EricBess... and Others...

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by train, May 14, 2003.

  1. train The Wildcard!!!...

    The reason I'm asking EB, though others may answer, is that it has been brought to my attention that a ruling was posted on the net stating that protection does not apply when Contested Cliff's ability is being used... I'd like a printable answer from a lvl 3 or higher to show the person stating this...

    Okay - my take on Contested Cliffs is that if your Raveonous Baloth is used and you target a Cerulean Wyvern, that both creatures live... because of the protection. Isn't this correct.

    Contested Cliffs
    Color= Land Type= Land Cost= None ON(R)
    Text (ON): {Tap}: Add {1} to your mana pool. ; {R}{G},{Tap}: Choose target Beast you control and target creature an opponent controls. Each creature deals damage equal to its power to the other.

    Cerulean Wyvern
    Color= Blue Type= Creature - Drake Cost= 4U MI(U)
    Text (MI): 3/3, Flying, Protection from Green.

    Ravenous Baloth
    Color= Green Type= Creature - Beast Cost= 2GG ON(R)
    Text (ON): 4/4. ; Sacrifice a Beast: You gain 4 life.

    I'm aware of the errata to Comp.Rules: 413.2a, and it's not valid to this situation, but is to a situation where the player would want to sac an avarax if it was used in place of the baloth in my example above...

    Doesn't protection work in this instance since it replaces the 4 damage with 0?... Am I losing my mind in thinking protection is replacing damage?...

    Am i losing my mind.
  2. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I believe Contested Cliffs states that each creatures deals damage to other, the source of the damage is the creature, not the Cliffs (where it would be colorless and protection would not apply unless Pro: Lands was somehow granted in between). As such, the damage to the Wyvern is prevented - not replaced; it never happened.
  3. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    In the situation as it's described, 413.2a does not apply because the Wyvern and the Baloth are being targeted by the Contested Cliffs and not by each other. The Cliffs ability would resolve as normal and then the Wyvern's pro-green would prevent the damage done by the Baloth. If instead I targeted my Avarax and my opponent's Wyvern and I sacked the Avarax to my Baloth before the ability resolved, by 413.2a no damage would be dealt to the Wyvern.

    (- Steve -)
  4. EricBess Active Member

    I can certainly back them up, but Spidey and JP are correct. The cliffs targets the two creatures. They do not target each other. So, if one becomes illegal (no longer in play or gains pro:land - or someone Laces the Cliffs making it green), then it will have an illegal target. Cliff's ability will attempt to resolve, but since the still legal target has nothing to damage and is taking damage from nothing, not much significant happens. Note that the ability still resolves. Both targets would need to become illegal for the ability to be countered on resolution.

    Now, Baloth takes 3 points of blue damage from the Wvyrn and the Wyvrn takes 3 points of green damage from the Baloth, which is prevented. The damage to the Baloth is not prevented, but is not sufficient to kill it (though a Lightning Dart could finish the job).
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Onslaught FAQ says
    Is this the same as what you're saying, it's not the same but doesn't make a difference, or it's not the same and could make a difference in some way?
  6. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Well i knew as much, but without access to the judge boards, I wasn't sure if something had changed...

    Rigth Spidey;) , when writing it I was thinking of replacement/prevention effects, and that 0 damage would be dealt - in which case no damage is dealt...

    "As long as I understand me, it's the rest of the world needing translators...":p
  7. EricBess Active Member


    Yes, that is the same as what I'm saying. I'm just explaining why nothing happens. Does nothing happen because the ability is countered, or does nothing happen because there is nothing to happen? Answer: because there is nothing to happen.

    AFAIK, nothing triggers from an ability being countered, but it's still a distinction. IOW, nothing happens when the ability resolves, but the ability actually does resolve.
  8. kriz_riktr Member

  9. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Anyone can post there? Even non-judges?
  10. EricBess Active Member

    Post to the "archive" Spidey?

    No, you can't post, but it does have some search capabilities, so if the question has been asked before on the list, you should be able to find it as long as the subject lines were meaningful.
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It's got a posting option, second choice down...
  12. kriz_riktr Member

    Yes and if you are not a certified judge on the list it will deny your post.
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Ah, I didn't want to try it because I don't have a question anyway and it's better asking for that sort of thing :)
  14. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    I believe that the Red and Blue hotdog vendor is right on this one.

    See ruling on other cards with the same ability as the cliffs.
  15. train The Wildcard!!!...

    i'll take a foot-long coney with extra chili and cheese please!...

    I really didn't know that i could view the archives - thanks Kriz...:D :cool:

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