Another one of those "I don't think it is right"

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Nightstalkers, May 23, 2005.

  1. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    The guy plays Genju of the Realm on a Blinkmoth Nexus and claims that he can now turn the Nexus into a 1/1 flyer, and then an 8/12 trampler... that keeps the previous flying ability.

    Now from what I see, it's replacing the Nexus' effect.
  2. jorael Craptacular!

    It's replacing the power and toughness, but that doesn't remove the flying.

    I think that works just as he did.
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I agree, based on the Gatherer ruling for Blinkmoth Nexus that says if the Nexus was activated and then turned into a Forest, it's the types artifact, land, creature and subtypes Blinkmoth and Forest, meaning it seems to keep the Nexus creature ability even if it's turned into something else. So I guess with the Genju of the Realm, you get a verrrry big flying dude coming at you. :)
  4. kriz_riktr Member

    'The guy' is correct. Look at it this way, when you animate a land, does its mana ability go away? It does not so then why should the ability granted by one animation effect be removed when another animation effect is applied.
  5. DarthFerret Evil Sith Weasel

    I think y'all are right. An 'animation' effect is not a 'replacement' effect. If you have a trample creature then play Jump on it, it still has trample. Maybe that is too simplified an example, but I think that it applies. Same thing with banding, if something has an ability, banding does not take that ability away (although it cannot cross the whole band unless every other creature in the band has that ability as well).
  6. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Well, what I still don't get is how he's playing a Genju of Fens or one of those land specific spells on an Artifact Land. His deck does not have anything that changes it's type.
  7. EricBess Active Member

    DarthFerret...Actually, your example isn't quite right. You are talking about giving flying to something that is already a creature. Both Blinkmoth Nexus and Genju of the Realms deal with type-setting effects because they both involve changing something that isn't normally a creature into a creature. Certain things are preserved and certain things aren't when that happens...

    Nightstalker - Genju of the Realms is just an "Enchant Land", not specifically to "Enchant Swamp" like Genju of the Fens is.
  8. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    The guys deck runs all of the Genju enchant land cards in his deck. I don't see how he can use them if his deck is full of artifact lands and nothing that would change them so he can use them.
  9. orgg Administrator

    In short, No, he cannot play the 'basic' genju, as theymay only enchant a basic land of the appropriate type.

    The reason the Blinkmoth/Relm trick works, however, is the same reason the Genju of the Fields multiple activation trick works. The ability doesn't remove any abilities from the land, it simply change sthe Power/Toughness of the creature into what is listed. (thus, a thrice activated white genju would give the spirit link ability to itself three times, or the Relm would keep the Nexus's flying)
  10. jackal_pup UnRegistered User

    I'm fairly positive that you are all mistaken...
    Becomes is a replacement effect. When something becomes something else, it no longer is what it was, it now is what it became. When you activate a Genju of the Realm on a Blinkmoth Nexus, even if the Nexus already was a 1/1 flier, the Genju ability replaces that with it being a 8/12 trampler. If you then activated the Nexus again, it would go back to being a 1/1 flyer and that's it. Genju doesn't add onto an existing landcreature, it changes it into an 8/12 legendary creature with trample.
    A thrice activated Genju of the Fields also does not give it the spirit link ability three times over. Each time you activate it you ovveride the previous activation since it also is a replacement effect like the genju of the realm.
    And you are correct, he cannot play the single color Genju's on artifact lands as they are not basic lands as required by the Genju's.
  11. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    jackal pup, you are incorrect.
    A thrice-activated Genju of the Fields DOES give the Spirit Link ability three times over. Seen it on Magic Online, and that's having a level 5 judge watch you at all times.

    Sorry, man. Going against the flow on this one was wrong. 8/12 flying trampler, coming atcha.
  12. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Additionally, kriz_riktr is a Level III judge (seen in his sig) and EricBess is a level ? judge also (forgot which you are, sorry man).

    Now judges can be wrong too :) , but you probably need to back up your thinking with something from the Comp. Rules so we can better understand where you're coming from.
  13. EricBess Active Member

    Level 3 Spidey (thanks a lot...)

    Jackel_pup...It's not a replacement ability, it is a "type-setting" ability.

    Istanbul....Using Magic Online as proof that a rule works a certain way is prone to problems :D
  14. orgg Administrator

    I'm also a Level 1 judge, and the 'guy' whom the Star City Games question that started the sparks around the Genju of the Fields refers to.
  15. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Sorry EricBess, you just haven't been on enough lately :)...

    Apologies to you too orgg for not mentioning your judge status.

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