All Hallows Eve...

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Nightstalkers, Oct 31, 2002.

  1. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    The great thing about this card its that you can always get the best effect when your want it.

    All Hallow's Eve
    Sorcery, 2BB
    Put two counters on this card. Remove a counter during your upkeep.
    When you remove the last counter from All Hallow's Eve, all players take
    all creatures from their graveyards and put them directly into play. Treat
    these creatures as though they were just summoned. You choose what
    order they come into play.
  2. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    nice card there. I've had my eyes on it since I first saw it way back in 1994 (jeez, have I really been playing that long?...). The main problem with it is that its so old its quite pricey. And, back when it was new it was still quite pricey because people thought of it the way they do upheaval nowadays (it=leet).
    If you can pick it up cheap, go for it! That is a dang good card there.
  3. theorgg Slob

    Actually, it has a much better card that is the exact same... well, almost.

    All Hallow's Eve is erratta'd to Enchantment.

    In Invasion, there is a spell that costs 4BB and does the exact same thing. If you pay two more, it can do it as an instant!

    Thus, since All Hallow's activates at the earliest on sixth turn, they're pretty much the same-- except the Invasion Sorcery only costs about fifty cents to two bucks(depending on area, etc.)
  4. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Sixth turn? Bah! If you're playing a format that would allow it you to have that card, there are lots of ways to get the card out on turn one. If you can be creative enough, you can stuff lots of critters into your graveyard - two turns later, you've got a world of hurt coming out to meet your friends.

    -Ferret

    "...behold the power of moldy cheese..."
  5. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    All Hallow's Eve is solid, but I'd go with the venerable Living Death if I had to choose between the two. For the 1 extra colorless, it also has the added benefit of potentially Wrathing away your opponent's stuff. Plus it can't be disenchanted right before it's set to blow up.
  6. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    We still believe that the art could be better.
  7. train The Wildcard!!!...

    The Art should have a Coat-High dark priest raising the dead in the order of his choosing during an eclipse on the fabled night!!!

    That would be cool!!!

    As for the card - What's cool is that you choose the order the creatures come into play - so you can basically stack them to your choosing....:eek: :cool:
  8. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    <addresses CPA members>

    And the Coat head has all of the great ideas!?!?!

    We are ashamed!
  9. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    Not really. All the creatures come into play simultaneously. Then any CIP abilities are placed on the stack in APNAP order.

    (- Steve -)
  10. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    and the poke'mon has the brains around here?
  11. train The Wildcard!!!...

    All Hallow's Eve
    Color= Black Type= Enchantment Cost= 2BB LG(R)
    Text (LG+errata): ~this~ comes into play with two time counters on it. ; At the beginning of your upkeep, if there is a time counter on ~this~, remove a time counter from it. If there are no more time counters on it, each player returns all creature cards from his or her graveyard to play. [Oracle 2001/08/24]

    The creatures are put into play by their respective players, but they enter play simultaneously. For purposes of ordering any effects of the creatures, the active player decides the ordering regardless of which player is putting the creatures into play. See Rule G.34.3. [D'Angelo 2000/03/03]

    A little mis-worded the first time, but still better worded than Puff's... APNAP doesn't matter here - the AP chooses the order of all effects/CIP abilities in their placement on the stack...;)
  12. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Puff - Does this mean you got another one wrong???...:p ;)
  13. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Alongi's animal magnetism could make a deck with All Hallows pretty interesting...
  14. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    I have no idea what you are talking about and I don't see how G.34.3 applies to the ordering of any triggered abilities that would trigger during the resolution of All Hallow's Eve.

    G.34.3 - If more than one permanent enters play simultaneously, then the order in which the effects of those cards enter play needs to be determined. This most commonly occurs when cards "phase in" (see Rule G.27.5). The ordering follows these rules: a) The active player decides the ordering among all cards which are not local enchantments. b) If cards have local enchantments on them, the effects of local enchantments on a card enter play after that card's effects, but prior to any other card's effects. c) If there are multiple local enchantments on a card, then the effects of those local enchantments enter play in the order in which those enchantments originally entered play. [Aahz 1996/12/04] For example, a Sandbar Crocodile is phased out with Flight and Earthbind on it (cast in that order). Feedback is on the Flight. When it phases in, the Crocodile's effects are considered to enter play first, then Flight's effect, then Feedback's effect (since it is on the Flight), then Earthbind's effect.



    From the Comp Rules themselves:
    410.3. If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, pseudospells controlled by the active player go on the stack first, in any order he or she chooses, then those controlled by the opponent go on the stack in any order that opponent chooses. Then players once again check for and resolve state-based effects until none are generated, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based effects are generated and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.

    And from Crystal Keep:
    A.4.8 - If multiple triggered abilities are being placed on the stack at one time, ones controlled by the current player go on the stack first, in any order that player chooses. Then ones controlled by the other player, in any order that player chooses. [CompRules 1999/04/23]

    (- Steve -)
  15. train The Wildcard!!!...

    All Hallow's Eve
    Color= Black Type= Enchantment Cost= 2BB LG(R)
    Text (LG+errata): ~this~ comes into play with two time counters on it. ; At the beginning of your upkeep, if there is a time counter on ~this~, remove a time counter from it. If there are no more time counters on it, each player returns all creature cards from his or her graveyard to play. [Oracle 2001/08/24]

    The creatures are put into play by their respective players, but they enter play simultaneously. For purposes of ordering any effects of the creatures, the active player decides the ordering regardless of which player is putting the creatures into play. See Rule G.34.3. [D'Angelo 2000/03/03]

    G.34.3 - If more than one permanent enters play simultaneously, then the order in which the effects of those cards enter play needs to be determined...

    That's all G.34.3 says, the rest is example... But the card specifically states that only the active player determines which order the CIP abilities/effects will be placed on the stack. So NAP doesn't really matter.

    Quoting from the Comp. and C.C. rules is general... this card has the golden rule applying to it...

    103. The Golden Rule

    103.1. The Magic Golden Rule: Whenever a card’s text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence. The card overrides only the rule that applies to that specific situation.

    So the oracle card text and the ruling on the card as of 3/3/2000, Allow the AP to determine the order upon which all CIP abilities/triggers will be placed on the stack...

    That's what I'm trying to get across... The NAP doesn't really matter here...:)
  16. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    Hold up a second here. The Golden Rule doesn't apply anywhere here. Nowhere on the card does it mention the active player. That's from a ruling, not the card text. You can't treat the rulings as though they were part of the text for the purposes of determining whether the Golden Rule should apply.

    And the ruling states that the active player will determine the order that effects will be applied, not the order that CIP abilities will be placed on the stack. G.34.3 doesn't mention the stack or triggered abilities.

    (- Steve -)
  17. train The Wildcard!!!...

    So r u saying the AP orders the effects - which is putting them on the stack - because the stack determines the order they resolve... but the NAP still chooses targets?... If so I agree... All I said was APNAP order does not matter here - the AP decides the order these go on the stack, and that NAP does not matter in this instance...

    Understood on the Golden Rule bit... but doesn't the ruling contradict the rules because of what Hallow's eve actually says on the card?...

    :D
  18. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    The Golden Rule only applies to card text. It doesn't apply to any rulings made on the card by anyone. Not even God.

    I think you might be getting confused by the difference between "abilities" and "effects". Effects occur when a spell or ability resolves or from a static ability on a permanent. They don't use the stack. Abilities are text on a card that create effects.

    402.1. An ability is text on a card or permanent that's not reminder text, flavor text, characteristic-setting text, or spell text (see rule 400.1). The result of following such an instruction or of following a spell's text is an effect. (See rule 416, "Effects.") Abilities can affect the cards or permanents they're on; they can also affect other cards, permanents, and/or players. Abilities can grant abilities to other cards or permanents or to the cards or permanents they're on; they do so when the words "has," "have," "gains," or "gain" are used.

    And it's possible that the ruling is out-of-date.

    (- Steve -)
  19. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Don't ask us, we lost you guys on the first page...

    but we might look it up.
  20. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    I 100% agree with the Nightstalkers...

    What the heck is going on? This type of legal schmegal crap really is just lame. I mean, it takes a huge geek-bible to even run MTG anymore...just friggen sad.

    Oh glory to the days when a small little rulebook was all that was needed. It could even fit into a deck box alongside your deck.

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