A bad 5-Color deck

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Mikeymike, Nov 19, 2001.

  1. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Here is my first 5-Color deck, the one I promised Dune Echo about 2 weeks ago. Its not aggro, that's for sure. I guess it focuses on deck and board manipulation. Enough B.S., onto the decklist.

    Restricted Cards at the top of each color
    White 25
    1 E. Tutor
    1 Academy Rector
    1 Balance
    1 Sacred Ground
    4 Armageddon
    4 STP
    4 Dismantling Blow
    3 Orim's Thunder
    2 Opal Archangel
    4 Mother of Runes

    Green 28
    1 Holistic Wisdom
    1 Regrowth
    1 Restock
    1 Crop Rotation
    4 Nature's Lore (combo's w/ dual lands)
    4 Wordly Tutor
    4 Wall of Blossoms
    4 Thornscape Battlemage
    4 River Boa
    4 Thornscape Apprentice

    Red 25
    1 Wheel of Fortune
    4 Demolish
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Thunderbolt
    4 Gorilla Shaman
    4 FTK
    4 Thunderscape Battlemage

    Black 20
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Diabolic Tutor
    1 Diabolic Intent
    1 Mind Twist
    1 Recurring Nightmare
    4 Contract from Below
    4 Ashen Powder
    2 Befoul/Annihiliate
    4 Nekrataal

    Blue 31
    1 M. Tutor
    1 Braingeyser
    1 Stroke of Genius
    1 Bribery
    1 Diminishing Returns
    1 Tinker
    1 Time Spiral
    4 Collective Restraint/Propaganda
    4 Dissapate
    4 Dismiss
    4 Fact or Fiction
    4 Serendib Efreet

    Artifact 15
    1 Sword of the Ages
    1 Citanul Flute
    1 Planar Portal
    1 Memory Jar
    1 Zuran Orb
    4 Erratic Portal
    4 Juggernaut
    2 Masticore

    Artifact Mana 15
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Grim Monolith
    1 Mana Vault
    4 Thran Dynamo
    4 Fellwar Stone
    4 Chromatic Sphere

    Gold 16
    1 Eladamri's Call
    4 Death Grasp
    4 Terminate
    2 Pernicious Deed
    2 Decimate
    1 Iridescent Angel
    1 Rith
    1 Crosis

    Land 79
    Ability lands
    1 Strip Mine
    3 Wasteland
    2 Dustbowl
    2 Volrath's Stronghold
    2 Yavimaya Hollow
    1 Keldon Necropolis
    2 Kor Haven
    4 Maze of Ith
    3 Treetop Village
    2 Fairie Conclave
    Mana lands
    4 Undiscovered Paradise
    3 Gemstone Mine
    2 Savannah
    2 Taiga
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Bayou
    2 Tundra
    1 Tolarian Academy
    Bunch of Basics, I don't feel like doing the mana breakdown yet


    Thoughts I have on the deck
    It lacks focus, a lot of the cards I put in here simply because I feel they'll excel in 5C: examples are the Apprentice, Erratic Portal, Ashen Powder, Death Grasp and the Undiscovered Paradise. Although I don't know that they necessarily belong I feel they would be fun to try.

    I'd like to try and run zero counters, but I guess that's unrealistic. Of course 8 isn't anything to brag about either, maybe I can cut them?

    I really like the Erratic Portals and I'm not going to remove them from the deck, please don't ask me to as it will just hurt my feelings and It'll force me to crawl up into the fetal position under my kitchen sink.

    I feel like the deck can motor, but I see myself having a tough time with weenie rush.

    Thoughts?
  2. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    I already see what cards I should take out but I'm curious to hear other's ideas first.

    Other cards I want to include
    Confiscate (this can't be bad)
    More Mass removal
    Mirari
    Capsize
    More cards that combo with the Erratic Portal (like Corpse Dance, more CiP creatures, Spikes)
    Threshold creatures and spells (namely Mystic Enforcer)
  3. CHA1N5 New Member

    or...

    Here's what you missed :)


    Mikey, thanks for posting your deck and giving me more to talk about:

    On the whole, you've got a great base of utility and card advantage going, here. I'd like to comment on a few card choices, and then touch on some stuff I think you could add...

    Your white cards are all really strong. I don't have much faith in this guy, but maybe he will be fine. If you take up my Tradewind suggestion (to come), he is better.

    For white, consider squeezing in at least 1 Radiant's Dragoons. Those guys are nuts, especially against beatdown.


    This is some good tech. I can't believe more people don't play with this guy. Still, if you find yourself having trouble casting this, may want to switch to Land Grant or Tithe... each of the three has their advantages.


    Allow me to suggest Stormscape over his Horny bretheren. Since you are heavier Blue, and Stormy has a more useful "B" ability.


    I think this is a typo. ;)
    You really meant to type something that has a use against Juggernaught, Shadow guys and Ophidian.
    Heck, Goblin Welder isn't even afraid of the mighty Thunderbolt!


    As for red cards... I'd like you to have access to at least one Avalanche Rider, for those emergency situations... and for general shenanegans.


    These guys are decent, but I think you can do better. Vindicate would be #1... Spite/Malice is also a contender for this spot. (That way, you can still have some counters, in a pinch)


    RFG is nice... and ocassionally, it will be amazing. However, what it more often amazing is Forbid. See also, Dromar's Charm... for more of that coveted does-more-than-just-counter-stuff action.


    Techy Mc. Tektek!


    These guys seem to not fit the "feel" of your deck. (Is that vague enough?) Consider other 4cc threats:
    More Masticore
    Mystic Enforcer
    Mindless Automaton
    More Masticore

    or, The Almighty Himself: Morphling


    This guy is cute, but Multani will stomp a mudhole in your opponent while Rith will be farming/fired/scared/banished and/or tipping his boat.... among other things.

    [Plow/Terminate/Terror/Dark Banishing and Capsize, for reference]



    [snip]
    I don't see any Thaws here.
    hint
    hint




    In the end, the one big suggestion I have for you and yours is:

    TRADEWIND RIDER

    Sorry for the colorful shouting... but this deck really screams for Tradewind.

    Oh, and one fun thing to play against beatdown is Defense of the Heart. Fetch yourself a Tradewind and an Auramancer... booya. Or a Tradewind and a Dragoon.


    Let us know if you have success with this deck. It looks like a good one.

    CHA1N5
  4. rkoelsch Angel Boy

    suprised you don't have dragon mask wouldn't htat fit the deck
  5. CHA1N5 New Member

    Dragon Mask would serve a similar purpose as Erratic Portal. I think that Mikey was going for removing his opponent's creatures... but I have to say that Dragon Mask could be really useful in combat and get you a few 2-fers in ways that the Erotic Portal would not.

    Might be worth a shot. A 4/3 Nekrataal is a pile of beef.

    CHA1N5
  6. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Dragon Mask is perfect for this deck! I will at least add 2.

    Hey CHA1N5 thanks for the hefty response and the great observations. I will reply fully a little later when I have more time, but I plan on using a few (or more) of your suggestions. I'll include cuts and additions and my thought process behind it.

    Mike
  7. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    White 25
    1 E. Tutor - Good, you've got plenty of targets for this.
    1 Academy Rector - Good. After playing CHA1N5's deck before, I'm sure what you'll be doing against weenie decks is blocking with this and getting your Penicious Deed out.
    1 Balance - Against 3-2-1 Contract styled decks, you're going to have a lot more land. This is a killer against a drawing deck or after someone kills a lot of your permanents.
    1 Sacred Ground - This can be good, but only if you're playing against 3-2-1 Contract which is known for Armageddons or Global Ruin.
    4 Armageddon - I'm not sure this fits in a Control type deck. Check with CHA1N5.
    4 STP - Excellent creature removal.
    4 Dismantling Blow - Excellent.
    3 Orim's Thunder - Might be a little over kill on the enchantment/artifact removal, depends on your metagame.
    2 Opal Archangel - You may want to consider Radiant's Dragoons here. It helps stop the weenie rush and works great in conjunction with Erratic Portal.
    4 Mother of Runes - Good creature.

    Green 28
    1 Holistic Wisdom - Good.
    1 Regrowth - Good.
    1 Restock - Good.
    1 Crop Rotation - Can be good.
    4 Nature's Lore (combo's w/ dual lands) - Hrm... Could be much better than Land Grants. I want to see this in action.
    4 Wordly Tutor - Good.
    4 Wall of Blossoms - Good. Beatdown decks hate this thing.
    4 Thornscape Battlemage - Excellent choice.
    4 River Boa - Good.
    4 Thornscape Apprentice - The tapping ability is really good. Nice idea.

    Red 25
    1 Wheel of Fortune
    4 Demolish - Your deck is a little heavy on anti-artifact/enchantment effects... Avalanche Riders would possibly suit you better here.
    4 Lightning Bolt - Standard, but excellent.
    4 Thunderbolt - I prefer Incinerate. Depends on your metagame.
    4 Gorilla Shaman - Good. Again, you have a lot of anti-artifact/enchanment effects. I wouldn't neccessarily recommend all of these.
    4 FTK - Very good in a bounce deck.
    4 Thunderscape Battlemage - Good.

    Black 20
    1 Yawgmoth's Will - Excellent.
    1 Demonic Tutor - Standard, but excellent.
    1 Diabolic Tutor - Good.
    1 Diabolic Intent - Do you have enough creatures for this?
    1 Mind Twist - Excellent.
    1 Recurring Nightmare - Good in conjunction with the CIP creatures you have.
    4 Contract from Below - :) Required for every 5.
    4 Ashen Powder - Hrm... Can be great... But I'm not sure... I would consider Necromancy over this.
    2 Befoul/Annihiliate - Diabolic Edict perhaps? Land destruction is decent, but you want something more than one use. Trench Wurm perhaps.
    4 Nekrataal - Consider Bone Shredder instead because of the single mana cost.

    Blue 31
    1 M. Tutor - Good.
    1 Braingeyser - Good.
    1 Stroke of Genius - :) Good.
    1 Bribery - What's good for your opponent will be good for you.
    1 Diminishing Returns - This can bite you... You don't want to Mind Twist and then cast this. Also, will you be emptying your hand fast?
    1 Tinker - Good. :) Now if only you could make a Mono-Brown deck, you would like this even more.
    1 Time Spiral - See Diminishing Returns.
    4 Collective Restraint/Propaganda - The general consensus seems to be Collective Restraint over Propaganda. Personally, I prefer to play consistency over possibility.
    4 Dissipate - Consider Forbid instead. It's reusable and removing a card from the game is not all that great because of the slower nature of 5.
    4 Dismiss - Great card.
    4 Fact or Fiction - Great card.
    4 Serendib Efreet - Great creature. Not good to have in play for a very long time. Morphling if you have it.

    Artifact 15
    1 Sword of the Ages - Interesting choice. Let me know if you get it into play often enough to be of value.
    1 Citanul Flute - Great.
    1 Planar Portal - Good. Kinda pricey, but good. You might have enough artifact mana to back it up.
    1 Memory Jar - Hrm... Can be very good.
    1 Zuran Orb - Evil card! I personally hate seeing it on the other side of the board.
    4 Erratic Portal - Okay, I won't suggest cutting it. :)
    4 Juggernaut - You may want to replace this. 3 toughness is kinda low when everyone plays Lightning Bolt/Incinerate/Chain Lightning.
    2 Masticore - Excellent.

    Artifact Mana 15 - All of these are good. The only thing missing is Mox Diamond.
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Grim Monolith
    1 Mana Vault
    4 Thran Dynamo
    4 Fellwar Stone
    4 Chromatic Sphere

    Gold 16
    1 Eladamri's Call - Good.
    4 Death Grasp - Good "burn" spell.
    4 Terminate - Excellent.
    2 Pernicious Deed - The bane of weenie decks everywhere. Another card I HATE seeing on the other side.
    2 Decimate - :) If you get this to work, you must tell me about it.
    1 Iridescent Angel - Multani is possibly better if you get more drawing effects.
    1 Rith - Haven't used, nor seen, this card in play. Supposedly, it's good. ;)
    1 Crosis - See above.

    Land 79
    Ability lands
    1 Strip Mine - Excellent. Lock someone with Holistic Wisdom. :)
    3 Wasteland - Excellent.
    2 Dustbowl - Good.
    2 Volrath's Stronghold - Good.
    2 Yavimaya Hollow - I'm not too fond of this for your deck.
    1 Keldon Necropolis - Can be good for getting creatures into the graveyard. But I'm not to fond of this because of the 4R activation cost.
    2 Kor Haven - Man, you hate weenie decks.
    4 Maze of Ith - See above.
    3 Treetop Village - Good.
    2 Fairie Conclave - Good.
    Mana lands - All of these are great lands. Looks a bit like my collection of duals too, which is amusing.
    4 Undiscovered Paradise
    3 Gemstone Mine
    2 Savannah
    2 Taiga
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Bayou
    2 Tundra
    1 Tolarian Academy - You've got enough artifacts to make this interesting.
  8. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Okay, here what was said doesn't work in the decklist:

    2 Opal Archangel - My logic was that someone had to play creatures, but it is very easy for a smart player to get around this card until they enchantment remvoal.
    They get the Axe!

    4 Thornscape Apprentice vs. 4 Stormscape Apprentice - I guess the question is which non-tap ability is better, First strike or a 1 point clock? I hear your argument CHA1N5 but the threat of a creature gaining first strike makes your opponent overthink a lot of the time, making it more likely for them to make a combat mistake. Especially in a long game. I'm not sold either way yet.

    4 Thunderbolt - My logic was that I had very little flying defense against big guns like Efreets, Angels and such. However, Incinerate is better 90% of the time.
    They get the Axe!

    2 Befoul/Annihilate - Versaitility vs. card advantage vs. Vindicate, hmmm. Yeah Vindicate is better.
    They get the Axe!

    4 Dissipate - I honesty I'd rather not run any counters, but common Magic know-how tells me I have to. Forbid or the Charm both look more attractive.
    They get the Axe!

    1 Sword of the Ages - I know you guys both like this, but I'm probably going to end up taking this out b/c I don't have enough big creatures in this deck to support a Sword bomb. Its in for now, but its days are numbered.

    4 Juggernaut - They totally don't fit the idea of the deck, I caught a case of "I want to use efficient old-school creatures"-itis....
    They get the Axe!

    1 Rith - This guy has won a lot of games for me in MP, but this isn't MP.
    He gets the Axe!

    1 Balance - Good point DE, I didn't take that into consideration
    It gets the Axe!

    4 Armageddon - I wanted a reason not to run them anyway
    They get the Axe!....twice!

    3 Orim's Thunder - I put in so much art./ench. removal b/c I don't know the enviro. yet. I used myself as a litmus tester, and I play way too many arts/enchs.
    They get the Axe!

    4 Demolish - These are snoozers, I definitely don't mind removing them. Guess what?
    They get the Axe!

    4 Gorilla Shaman - Jealousy selection, however it does wipeout a lot of 0 CC artifacts which are sure to run amok.
    -2 (maybe minus 0)

    1 Diabolic Intent - I plan on running more creatures with the new decklist.
    It stays in!

    4 Ashen Powder - This is my 5-Color tech. I running a ton of creature destruction, this way I can steal a creature without depending on a creature enchantment. I should have no problems playing this. Down the road they might get cut, but I'm going to play test them first.

    4 Nekrataal vs. Bone Shredder - Eh, I'm split. I think the extra black is worth it for First Strike, +1 power, and no echo. He stays for now, but it could change.

    1 Diminishing Returns / 1 Time Spiral - This is a good example of how greed can get the better of you.
    They get the Axe!

    Collective Restraint vs. Propaganda - I'll probably end up running both just to be a prick. They both kick booty. If I had to select one it'd definitely be Propaganda, b/c it still works after your opponent Armageddons.

    4 Serendib Efreet - Another case of "I want to use efficient old-school creatures"-itis. This deck isn't fast enough to support their upkeep.
    They get the Axe!

    1 Planar Portal - Its got to stay, the card is unfair in 5-color

    2 Yavimaya Hollow - I've been playing this card since destiny and it has never let me down. Its got to stay.

    1 Keldon Necropolis - The 6 mana activation is alot, but it is colorless damage. Yet colorless damage isn't as important in 5-Color as it is in duel.
    Its gone!

    I own zero Mox Diamond's or Morphlings unfortunately, but I could probably borrow them if necessary.

    -2 Opal Archangel
    -4 Thunderbolt
    -2 Befoul/Annihilate
    -4 Dissipate
    -4 Juggernaut
    -1 Rith
    -1 Balance
    -4 Armageddon
    -3 Orim's Thunder
    -4 Demolish
    -2 Gorilla Shaman
    -1 Diminishing Returns
    -1 Time Spiral
    -4 Serendib Efreet
    -1 Keldon Necropolis
    38 cards to swap, that should create some serious room

    Cards to Add
    Utility creatures
    2 Radiant's Dragoons
    2 Tradewind Riders (don't worry I heard you ;))
    1 Crater Hellion/Desolation Giant
    1 Spike Weaver
    1 Squallmonger
    1 Yavimaya Ganger
    1 Deranged Hermit (for the Tradewind)
    2 Monk Idealist (I like the artwork better than the Auramancer)
    11
    Spells
    4 Vindicate
    1 Pernicious Deed (can't resist the Deed)
    2 Defense of the Heart
    4 Dromar's Charm/Forbid
    4 Incinerate
    2 Dragon Mask
    2 Eladamri's Call
    19
    Beatdown
    4 Mystic Enforcer
    1 Multani
    1 Spirit of the Night (Defense of the Heart Surprise)
    2 Avatar of Woe
    8

    I've actually got a bunch more dual lands I can add but I was trying to stay away from too many b/c I didn't want to lose them to ante. Screw it, I'm only young for so long.
    More Duals
    2 Thawing Glaciers
    2 Terminal Moraine

    ----------------------------
    New Decklist:
    White 19
    1 E. Tutor
    1 Academy Rector
    1 Sacred Ground
    4 STP
    4 Dismantling Blow
    4 Mother of Runes
    2 Monk Idealist
    2 Radiant's Dragoons

    Green 35
    1 Holistic Wisdom
    1 Regrowth
    1 Restock
    1 Crop Rotation
    4 Nature's Lore (combo's w/ dual lands)
    4 Wordly Tutor
    2 Defense of the Heart
    4 Wall of Blossoms
    4 Thornscape Battlemage
    4 River Boa
    4 Thornscape Apprentice
    1 Multani
    1 Spike Weaver
    1 Squallmonger
    1 Yavimaya Ganger
    1 Deranged Hermit

    Red 18
    1 Wheel of Fortune
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Incinerate
    2 Gorilla Shaman
    4 FTK
    4 Thunderscape Battlemage
    1 Crater Hellion/Desolation Giant

    Black 21
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Diabolic Tutor
    1 Diabolic Intent
    1 Mind Twist
    1 Recurring Nightmare
    4 Contract from Below
    4 Ashen Powder
    4 Nekrataal
    2 Avatar of Woe (his ACC shouldn't be a problem)
    1 Spirit of the Night (not necessary but its quite a beating)

    Blue 19
    1 M. Tutor
    1 Braingeyser
    1 Stroke of Genius
    1 Bribery
    1 Tinker
    4 Propaganda
    4 Dismiss
    4 Fact or Fiction
    2 Tradewind Riders

    Artifact 13
    1 Sword of the Ages
    1 Citanul Flute
    1 Planar Portal
    1 Memory Jar
    1 Zuran Orb
    4 Erratic Portal
    2 Dragon Mask
    2 Masticore

    Artifact Mana 15
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Grim Monolith
    1 Mana Vault
    4 Thran Dynamo
    4 Fellwar Stone
    4 Chromatic Sphere

    Gold 30
    4 Death Grasp
    4 Terminate
    4 Dromar's Charm
    4 Vindicate
    3 Pernicious Deed
    3 Eladamri's Call
    2 Decimate
    4 Mystic Enforcer
    1 Iridescent Angel
    1 Crosis

    Land 79
    Ability lands
    1 Strip Mine
    3 Wasteland
    2 Dustbowl
    2 Thawing Glaciers
    2 Terminal Moraine
    2 Volrath's Stronghold
    2 Yavimaya Hollow
    2 Kor Haven
    4 Maze of Ith
    3 Treetop Village
    2 Fairie Conclave
    Mana lands
    1 Tolarian Academy
    4 Undiscovered Paradise
    3 Gemstone Mine
    3 Savannah
    3 Taiga
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Bayou
    3 Tundra
    2 Badlands
    2 Volcanic Islands
    2 Scabland
    2 Plateau
    1 Underground Sea (all I own)
    22 Basic Lands

    Boy, I'm tired.
  9. CHA1N5 New Member

    Glad to see that you made some healthy revisions... and not just because I suggested some of them :)

    What I'd really like to see, now, is some reports of how all of these new decks are doing!

    I know that some of you probably are in the process of cajoling your friends to build 5's... so get to it!

    CHA1N5

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