Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by avengingangel, Feb 14, 2000.

  1. avengingangel New Member

    Personally,I would love for WotC to bring back all the "power" cards that they have banned and/or erratted to death.They could put their "VII" symbol on them so they don't drive down the value for collectors of the Alpha,Beta and Revised versions.For tournaments,leave all bannings and restrictions in place.I may be greedy,but I would love for the chance to crack open a pack and find a Black Lotus or a Mox or a Timetwister.Wouldn't you love the chance to collect and play withn all the great cards from the past?I didn't start playing Magic until Ice Age,but should I be penalized foa that?Come on Wizards,give us players who made your company by buying box after box of cards(I have a brand new box of Nemesis right next to me)a chance to play with the legends.
  2. TomB Administrative Assistant

    That's an interesting thought. Bring back the old cards so newcomers to the game have access to them without ransoming their firstborn to afford it, but stipulate ahead of time they're not to be used in type 2 or Extended tourneys.


    I like it, but WotC would never do it because of that "Reserved list" thing they put out a while ago. The collectors and card shop owners would have their heads.

    I remember the anguish one shop owner went through when 4th came out. Not only did they put Spirit Link in it, but they made it an uncommon. It was, a day before, about a $35. Rare.

    The price dropped to about $5.00, even for the Legends versions he had. And he had a lot of them.

    I think we've a much better chance to see them in a Collector's Set, with different color backs and off-color borders (teal?). They likely wouldn't be tourney legal, but if you're just playing with your friends that shouldn't matter.


    WotC could even charge a premium price for it, say, $100.00. Expensive, but cheaper than buying the originals one at a time (or trading for them...That's what I've tried to do :cool: ).


    CPA Member
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I'm of two opposing thoughts.

    One, I would also like to open an own one of the Power Nine.

    However, two, to be quite honest, if you snoozed, you losed (had to make it rhyme). If you really want them that bad without paying the wazoo, trade for them. Also, according to naysayers everywhere, Magic is dying so there's gotta be people getting out and will sell cheap :). This is all if your play group won't allow proxies and you want to have the actual card when you play in against strangers in shops or something.

    Anyway, personally, I don't feel that reprinting them "just because people missed out" is a good reason to do so.
  4. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Man, I'm torn too. I see the collector's side of this, but heck, I'll be honest, I'm dying for some Moxen and Loti. Screw the Juzam Djinn, hell with the Timetwister, see you later Time Walk. I JUST WANT MOXEN AND LOTI! :) (See? Ferret's right about the danger of artifacts.) I totally subscribe to Ferret's intellectual sphere on artifacts. They're broken, but the are the need of every casual player in a multiplayer game and not for combos! I would love to drop a couple of Mox Emeralds and start throwing out BIG creatures (you know what I mean, Thorn Elemental, Carnassid, Rootbreaker Wurm, etc.) And hell, if it's casual like it's supposed to be, then four or more Moxen should be allowed. It doesn't say in the rule book, that no more than four cards of any type per deck and at least 60 cards! It's up to other players to decide whether or not to play with you. That's why I want the stuff reprinted. Unfortunately, without a massive base of people telling WotC yes, while signing their paychecks, it's not going to happen.

    So, unless everyone wants to buy a few shares of Hasbro and start petitioning, it's never going to happen like Avenging Angel wants. (And believe me buddy, I totally agree with you here.)

    I remain torn,
    Dune Echo
  5. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    I think that the reprinting of old power cards is a bad idea just because any card printed these days has to be Type II legal. Since WotC really cares about how the Pro Tour is going to handle cards (or so you'd think) they need to keep everything balanced. I think they've finally learned their lessons, but they have to draw the line somewhere...

    As for the Reserved List, I wholeheartedly agree that some cards should never see print again - mostly for those of us that paid a small fortune for some of them. Let's turn the Wayback Machine to just before Ice Age came out: A friend of mine shelled out $75 for an Unlimitted Icy Manipulator and screamed in horror as I got two of them on the night that Ice Age went public. I paid 1/10th of what he did and got TWO of them... I would feel the same way if someone paid $2.95 and got a Black Lotus in their booster when I paid over $100 for mine - and mine was a STEAL...


    "...Greed is still good - they should reprint it!"
  6. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Also, you have to consider what effect reprinting these cards would have on drafting. That would be damn funny to watch people drafting from now on.

    Dune Echo

    "What do you mean I need draft a viable deck? I'm just here for the Jewelry!"
  7. Wizard2000 New Member

    reprinting the power cards from the Alpha, Beta, UL days would be a bad idea. Instead I think they should bring back cards that were staple cards for decks, but were not horribly broken. Cards such as the Knights, Incinerate(or something similar), Swords to Plowshares, fireball, Sengir Vampire, Serra Angel, and other such stuff. These are what made Magic fun when I first started playing and not having them in 6th has really hurt my interest in the game as a whole. The Urza block brought tons of super power cards, then tons of crap, but nothing really in between... what we need are those in between cards that are strong, but not so strong that they change the whole world of magic. Maybe if we keep saying these things enough WotC will listen to us! :)
  8. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    I think that WotC has made great strides in creating "fixed" versions of some of the old power cards:

    Vampiric Tutor (and the other Tutors) vs Demonic Tutor
    Elven Cache vs Regrowth
    Mox Diamond vs other Moxen
    Lotus Petal and Lion's Eye Diamond vs Black Lotus

    and many other examples.

    The cards that people want to be reprinted were taken out for a reason: they unbalanced the game...


    "...we don't want another Combo Winter, do we?"
  9. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    At last, the voices of reason!

    That's right, as much fun we might think it is to play the power 9, the lesson was learned a long time ago that some cards just should never have been printed. I'm stunned to see so many people who claim to be casual players (ban Bargain! burn the Academy!) want to see the Moxes and Lotus reprinted, not to mention the sickeningly broken Time Walk, Timetwister and Ancestral Recall (yeah, I know avengingangel, "screw the Juzam," etc... I read your post).

    How much 'fun' is it when you sit down to a game of 'casual' magic and your opponent goes, "Mox, Swamp, Lotus, Black Vise, Ju-ZAM!!!!" Not a lot, I can tell you from experience. When they Twister and Walk and attack for 5 (and don't forget the 3 you took from Vise) the next turn, ask yourself again, "Am I having fun?"

    Now, on the other cards-
    I too would like to see the return of some cards. Incinerate would be strong in today's environment, but maybe not too strong (personally, though, I think it should cost RR). The same goes for the Serra Angel, but Swords is just too good for white (like the 'new' Waylay was), and Exile (yes, white weenie players actually use Exile) is a much more appropriate version. The knights, too, are undercosted for the current, "player-friendly" environment. They should return, but with new name and a 1WW mana cost (yep, that means the Paladin should have cost 2WW).

    Anyhow, as much of a thrill as it is to play with the Big Guns, I'll have to hope that someday I can actually afford them and play Type 1 (that's right, the mighty Turtle owns zero power nine, Flying men is my oldest, coolest card), or be happy to pretend on Apprentice.

    Later, y'all.
  10. theorgg Slob

    On the incenerate issue: would it be bad if it didn't screw regeneration in the @$$?

    Well e-mail wotc and ask for volcanic hammer from portal to be put into the basic set.
    what is it?
    same damn thing, except regeneration functions as normal...

    and with regards to this topic, I asked a friend of mine about his opinion on Serra and Sengir, and he said due to the enviroment now, they were TOO SLOW! a "waste of a card slot" was his exact words.

    to this extent, Bring Back Serra & Sengir!
  11. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Actually, Chaos Turtle, I was the one that said "Screw the Juzam..." I don't want them only to beat up my opponent. No, I just like the flavor of them. They have this power that reminds me of when I joined the game. The artwork makes think of the relics you find in a role-playing game. I don't know, the only thing I can compare having the Moxes and a Lotus to would be like buying a brand new card just for admiration. I don't know how to properly explain it.
  12. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Personally though, if they're going to make fixes of all the old cards like Lotus Petal and Mox Diamond, I feel these belong in the basic set. Let us get as close to the originals as possible and make them available for us. It's part of the basis of Magic to be able to play with a "Mox" and "Lotus" cards of some type.
  13. avengingangel New Member

    I think your missing my point.I don't want these cards back to play in tournaments.Hell,I don't care if they are legal.I'd just like a shot at collecting and playing with the "real" things.Just with friends.The way it used to be.(Before $1,000,000 Pro tours and televised coverage on ESPN2)Just print the cards,put some funky expansion symbol on them,and ban the entire set from tournament play.Just leave the backs the same so they can be played with all the other cards already in players collections.And if someone lays the smackdown on me with the "power 9"so be it.At least I'd have the chance to experience it without having to spend a couple thousand bucks and enter some eleteist Type I tournament.This is the Casual Players Alliance isn't it?Put the power back in the hands of the players!
  14. Ed Sullivan CPA Founder, Web Guy

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...because any card printed these days has to be Type II legal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>-Ferret
    It's just the way it is these days with all the pro players and the like, that "any card has to be tourney legal".

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hell,I don't care if they are legal.I'd just like a shot at collectingand playing with the "real" things.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    *cough*Apprentice*cough* :)

    Now don't get me wrong here - I like, but don't own any power 9. I just don't think they should reprint them at all.
    As was already said, they aren't being printed for a reason -- balance. But they're "fixed" versions are decent, and still kinda broken. (Mental note: stop typing "borken", instead of broken :D)

  15. avengingangel New Member

    "BALANCE?"That's not what I'm talking about!If you don't want to use them,fine.It just would be nice if more people would have that option.Nobody would be forced to use them.The opportunity for the thousands of people who missed out on the beginning of Magic to get a chance to play with and experience these great cards outweigh any questions of "balance".Print them in a Portal type set(It may actually stir interest in a dead set)I'm just asking for a chance for the "newbies" to be given the chance you Magic "geezers" had.Shouldn't casual play be about using all the cards,
    regardless of power,to your enjoyment.It sounds like many of you are too concerned with how it would effect you in competition or in your wallet,as far as card values go,to be "casual"players.I personally play Magic just for fun,so maybe I can't see things from your side.Sorry if I offended anyone with my comments.
  16. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    I can see how many people would just love to PLAY w/ the cards in a casual environment. You could use the Moxen and/or Lotus to fuel big critters or cool spells - not combos.

    A few years ago they printed the Beta Collector's Edition that had Gold Borders. Those were pretty nice, weren't tourney legal and allowed folks to actually put the cards in their decks...maybe that would be nice for them to print in their "spring release"...


    "...something to tide me over..."
  17. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    But that's exactly what I meant. Those old "power cards" aren't "great" at all. They're mistakes, made by a company creating a breakthrough game on the fly, as it were.
    Playing with thos cards is about as much fun as playing chess with a 6-year-old (assuming it's not one of those chess-prodigy kids). Whoever draws their power card first is the winner.
    Magic geezers, eh? I only started with 4th/Ice, myself. I don't own any power cards, either, so your point is lost on me. I didn't even own a Jester's Cap (used to be considered broken, ages ago) until 5th ed came out.
    Anyhow, why shouldn't the people who were there from the start have the privilege of owning the older cards? You sound jealous. It's like saying the U.S. mint should print some more "silver certificates" because you weren't even born when they went out of circulation (how unfair!).
    Here's an idea for you, if you really want to play with the power cards. Go to one of the major net auction sites and do a search for the names of the power 9 (try including 'faux' or 'proxy' in the search, it may help narrow it down) and you should be able to find a seller who has made some really high-quality fake versions of the cards. These fakes are very difficult to tell from the real thing without doing the various conterfeit tests, and -- if you and your friends really only want them to play with 'for fun' -- nobody is going to care. If you have a good laser printer or access to a high-end color copier, you can even make your own.
    Not by the way, that I'm advocating the counterfeiting of cards! Try and sell or trade one of these things as if it was real, and you can go to jail (try it with me, and you may not make it to jail).

    Peace, love, and .\\agic!
  18. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Oh, yeah, and my apologies, Dune, for the misquote.
    My bad!
  19. Ed Sullivan CPA Founder, Web Guy

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you don't want touse them,fine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> angel, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that I didn't want to play with them. I'd love to play with them.

    I'm just saying that I don't think they should be reprinted because of balance. As I quoted in my last post, it seems like all new sets have to be tourney legal. Hell, Starter is (was?) going to be tourney legal. The only reason Portal wasn't was because it wasn't released worldwide (or am I wrong here?)

    It'd be cool if they did another collector's edition, though. Square corners and gold borders.

    And let me pose a compareable question: Do you think they should reprint Babe Ruth's rookie card because not many people have them? ("not many people", there's an understatement)

  20. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Let me bring up this point here. You don't PLAY with silver certificates or Babe Ruth cards. You PLAY with a Black Lotus and Moxes. Some of us want them purely for the benefit of playing with them. When it comes to this subject, not anyone is going to be truly happy.

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