15-Card Highlander Format

G

Gizmo

Guest
Okay guys, you can get your creative juices round this one...

At UK Gencon there will be a 15-card Highlander tournament with a prize of a Black Lotus. I`d like to own a Black lotus...just long enough to turn it into an equivalent number of £££ that is.

FORMAT.......Standard Format. Legal sets are 6thED, Urza Block & Masques Block. Decks must consist of exactly 15 cards, with a sideboard of 3 cards. No more than one copy of a card may be included in the deck except for basic land. For those unfamiliar with the format, players play magic as normal, but u do not lose the game by being decked. when your deck runs out, u just carry on playing until one of the players reaches 0 life total.
Rounds will be best of 3 & timed at 30 minutes per round +5 extra turns. depending on numbers, the event will likely be 6 rounds of swiss, with a top eight KO played best out 5 games) to decide the standings.

BANNED LIST..Thran Foundry (destiny)
Serra Avatar (saga)
(And Crumbling Sanctuary will soon be added I think)

So what do you think, anything come to mind?
From a straight theory point of view the key will be card advantage, and these are some of the ways of gaining it in this format:
Hammer Of Bogardan
Nether Spirit
Squee + Spellshaper
Diabolic Servitude
187 effects
Repopulate
Lin Sivvi/Informer graveyard recursion

The most viable combo deck would probably be Sneak Attack (esp if I`m wrong and you CAN use Palinchron with Sneak)

My first deck tried to use Pirates - it`s terrible...

Birds Of Paradise
Llanowar Elf
Rishadan Cutpurse
Rishadan Footpad
Rishadan Brigand
Ghitu Slinger
Avalanche Riders
Phyrexian Ghoul
-
Stone Rain
Repopulate
-
Rishadan Port
City Of Brass
Karplusan Forest
Forest
Island

I`ve no idea about this format at all, so it`s open to the floor.
 
S

superguy

Guest
That sounds kinda cool!
Here's a few ideas:
Jolrael, Empress of Beasts and Powder Keg, and a kill card, like a Thorn Elemental
Morphling and um.... Islands :) and Counters
Cop: Black and Pestilence
I can't think of any more right now, my head hurts :(
Anyway, have fun, and I hope I helped!
 
T

The Rock

Guest
FINALLY THE ROCK HAS COME BACK...TO THE CPA!

Sneak Attack:
1 dark ritual
1 heart of ramos
1 grim monolith
1 sneak attack
1 vampiric tutor
1 Haunted Crossroads
1 Phyrexian Negator
1 Crater Hellion
1 Endless Wurm
1 Phyrexian Colossus
3 mountain
1 City of Brass
1 Sulfurous Springs


Sideboard:
1 Duress
1 Powder Keg
1 Mountain (land destruction is possible, see next decklist)

Just for the record, there are many broken draws...
turn 1 mountain, turn 2 City, and ritual out Sneak
turn 3 mountain, tap for 3 red, Hellion/Wurm/Colossus...game
there's still the ritual/negator play, if you want to go for speed that way you actually get to use vamp tutor for consistensy

Ponza:
1 stone rain
1 pillage
1 avalanche rider
1 goblin gardener (chump blocker + ld, and if things are going right they
wont have the land to spare to afford attacking)
1 Lay Waste
1 Veteran Brawlers
1 Tectonic Break
1 Hammer of Bogarden
4 Mountain
1 Ghitu Encampment
1 Rishadan Port
1 Dust Bowl

Sideboard:

1 Mountain ( i expect the mirror )
1 Lightning Dragon
1 Arc Lightning

probably the strongest decklist here. How much land can a deck of 15 cards possibly run, right? You can blow up 5 land, plus tap one with port, plus destroy nonbasics with bowl, PLUS tectonic break the rest. you get THREE
kill cards (brawlers, ghitu, and hammer... and i guess maybe riders...).
Graveyard recursion might hurt... planar birth? but you can break away the recurred land. I still call this deck the best.

Crypt Donate
1 Forbidden Crypt
1 Donate
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Dark Ritual
1 Grim Monolith
1 Hoodwink (for seal of cleansing)
1 Duress
1 Rapid Decay (already a good card for the format, now a kill card)
1 Brainstorm
1 Miscalculation
1 City of Brass
1 Underground River
2 Swamp
1 Island

Sideboard
probably a bunch of anti-ld cards

this deck is puuuuuuure combo, but it can work amazingly well.

Stompy:
1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Wild Dogs
1 Llanowar Elf
1 Albino troll
1 River boa
1 Cradle Guard
1 Rancor
1 Giant Growth
1 Wild Might
1 Repopulate
1 Treetop Village
4 Forest

Sideboard:
no clue

random stompy.... might be viable, might run out of steam. I'd also like to fit tangle wire in there somewhere...
 
C

Cateran Overlord

Guest
No, Sneaking a Palinchron does not allow you to untap lands unfortunately. It's been errataed.
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
Well, let's start by analyzing the theory of the format. Obviously, the deck you play shouldn't include anything costing more than, say, 5 mana. And 5 is stretching it. Yes, you'll have mana drops all the way out, but still... Therefore, I'd say Hammer is out of the picture. It costs what, 8 to bring back and cast? That's more than HALF your deck's CARDS supplying you mana! Jesus H. Christ! And you need _five_ red mana to bring back Hammer? No, no, and NO.

That ain't cool at all.

I would recommend Yawgmoth's Will, but the cost of three mana is enormous if you then want to play another spell. You can realistically play ~ 5 (MAYBE 6) land in your deck, the rest would be spells.

Obviously, the most popular method of achieving victory would be through weenie beatings, so you have to find a way around that. Simple burn, a'la Shock, won't cut it, every single card slot has to be utilized to maximum effectiveness, and a cast Shock is 2 less damage you won't be doing to the other guy, not to mention it's not guaranteed to take anything out.

I personally don't think that any card that lets you draw a card is worth your time. The most important card advantage you need here is board control, but versitle board control. Something that reads 'Destroy target creature' is just crappy in this format. You get 1 for 1, yes, but if your opponent lacks creatures, you might as well just have lost a card for nothing. Every card has to be useful in _every_ possible matchup.

That's why I recommend (suprise) Blue. Countermagic is fairly good in this environment, and for the first time in recorded history, Miscalculation is a game breaker due to mana limits. Even Memory Lapse may have it's uses for once. Powder Keg is removal and card advantage, especially with the low CC you'll surely face. Masticore is useless, so Phantom Warrior or Morphling provides the win. Rethink and Counterspell fill out the counter base. Daze provides a turn-one counter, without card disadvantage (though the mana loss is a big deal in this format). Treachery, perhaps. Ideas?

Decks to watch out for:

Ponza (BIG trouble, a dead land is gone for good, you won't be topdecking any more to replace it.)
Stampy (Basic low CC creature deck, Treetop Village and Weatherseed provide the late game.)
Burn (Not a good deck, but it's still RED, and therefore can be a threat simply by getting a God burning hand.)
Sneak Attack (I don't think this is such a big deal. Threatening, sure, but they can only have one Sneak, if it gets Disenchanted/Countered, they die.)
Trinity (Think about it. Easily acquiring 5 mana on turn 3 with Elves, Plow Under. Simian Grunts beatdown.)
Wurms (Endless Wurm/Rancor, and the Elf base of Trinity... Big trouble.)
 
R

rkoelsch

Guest
Working with white

Mother of Runes
Soltari Priest
Soltari Monk
Glittering Lion
Paladin en vec
Enlightened Tutor
Worship
Sheltered Prayers
Abolish
Crusade
Wasteland
4-Plains

Sideboard
Disenchant
Glorious Anthem
Glittering Lynx
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Not sure Zadok`s analysis holds a lot of water, really. You only need 5 lands to recurse Hammer, nobody says you have to cast it the turn you buy it back, you know.
I`ve been talking to some of my pro friends on e-mail about this format so I thought I`d pop in to let you know how it`s going.

>How about my 3-color 'who needs survival?' deck? Go
>Crossroads! Just hope they dont have disenchant!
>
>1 Blastoderm
>1 Dark Hatchling
>1 Haunted Crossroads
>1 Deadly Insect
>1 Bone Shredder
>1 Avalanche Rider
>1 Uktabi Orangutan
>1 Carrion beetle
>1 Elvish Lyrist
>1 Treetop Village
>1 Black Manland (I forget the name! The Drudge guy!)
>1 Forest
>1 Swamp
>1 Karpulsian Forest
>1 Sulfurous Springs

I`d forgotten about Crossroads - this has potential. Not sure I`d run both manlands though and I`m not sure about some of the creature choices (Deadly Insect?). If you put a Monk Idealist or Tragic Poet into this deck then you can run a loop if they destroy the Crossroads, and then it starts to sound nice - a loop they cannot stop you running.
I`m starting to lean towards that W/B Rebel/Darkest Hour deck because the pieces are starting to fit together into a synergistic whole. You get multiple recursive loops that suport each other, in fact you don`t even need the Rebel Informer any more, he`s till in here as a back up strategy, that`s all...

Mother Of Runes
Tragic Poet
Ravenous Rats
Boneshredder
Lightbringer
Rebel Informer
Devout Witness
-
Darkest Hour
Haunted Crossroads
-
3 Plains
3 Swamp

SB
Disenchant
Wrath Of God
Rapid Decay

Hmm, I wonder if Crossroads/Pirates was the deck I was trying to make first time around?

---

I`d thought that a mono-black Nether Spirit deck would be one of the most obvious choices.

Duress
Ostracise
Stupor
Vicious Hunger
Seal Of Doom
Befoul
Massacre
-
Nether Spirit
Phyrexian Processor
-
Spawning Pool
Dust Bowl
4 Swamp

SB
Rapid Decay
Contamination
????

Or an LD version with Rain of Tears, Befoul, Blight, and Despoil. Maybe Smokestack as well.
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
First of all, I think the Hammer argument holds. It's powerful, yes, but even if you don't cast in on the same turn, you're paying _all_ (or damn close to it) of your mana every other turn just to recur the thing. Considering the (admittably minor) testing I've run, creature and permanent abilities can be very helpful, and they like to eat up your mana too. You can't have a Hammer and useful activated abilities, due to mana restrictions. And since Hammer will eat up all the mana you have available for reusable spells (not to mention there aren't many other reusables), what else would you use in the deck? I can see it as a kill card in a Ponza LD deck, but Lightning Dragon is better in that slot; it kills faster, costs less, and can chump if nessesary.

Appropriately enough, the best deck I've tested so far is based on Tinker. :) Figures.

1 Phyrexian Collosus
1 Chimeric Staff
1 Phyrexian Processor
1 Thran Dyanamo
1 Grim Monolith
1 Voltaic Key
1 Charcoal Diamond (This is BAD, I can't think of better card, though...)
1 Ring of Gix
1 Tangle Wire

1 Dark Ritual

2 Swamp
1 Spawning Pool (this is what you were thinking of)
1 Crystal Vein
1 Peat Bog

The last two land are questionable anti-card advantage, but still pretty strong, due to how key speedy mana is in this deck. It's not a great deck, but 7/7 Minion tokens give everyone headaches. And with the card limits, maindeck artifact removal isn't gonna be very common. The advantage of this deck is that it becomes a super-consistant Tinker deck, almost always drawing Monolith, Key, Ritual, or Dynamo. The Tangle Wire is a last contingency, slowing down the opponent long enough to draw one of said mana accelerants.

Haunted Crossroads seems some good... What about Martyr's Cause and Fecundity? Seems like you could set up a creature based deck with those, Tragic Poet, and Monk Idealist, sacking creatures to keep yourself alive long enough to use the Blasto as a kill. Those three cards can end up giving you some completely _massive_ card advantage, especially at the post-turn 8 game state. You'd need lots of mana, though. Or you could try a Phyrexian Reclamation/Martyr's Cause/Radiant's Dragoons trick, but that starts to cost excessive amounts of mana.

I'd like to try a B/W counter/control deck with some light creature support for a kill, say, Phantom Warrior (look, a crappy card!). Wrath is pretty nice in this format, as is Counterspell and Last Breath. In fact, those light little white removal spells are just awesome here...

"Nice format. My playgroup will be running it this Tuesday."
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Try these out, I`m running my decks against each other on Apprentice. Playtesting is making some things very obvious, we can expect some very aggressive resource-denial decks that much is for certain. Not built an aggressive deck like Stompy yet, though, so we might have to adjust our decks to beat faster ones. I think Suicide in particular might be really strong as the Duress and Stupors are amazing disruption.


15-Lightbringer

1 Mother Of Runes
1 Ravenous Rats
1 Lightbringer
1 Monk Idealist
-
1 Darkest Hour
1 Duress
1 Stupor
1 Haunted Crossroads
1 Seal Of Cleansing
1 Marble Diamond
-
2 Plains
3 Swamp

SB
1 Sheltered Prayers
1 Tragic Poet
1 Rapid Decay

-------------------------------------------------------

15-Ponza

1 Veteran Brawlers
1 Avalanche Riders
-
1 Hammer Of Bogardan
1 Stone Rain
1 Pillage
1 Lay Waste
1 Tectonic Break
1 Devastate
-
1 Rishadan Port
1 Dust Bowl
1 Ghitu Encampment
4 Mountain

SB
1 Sandstone Needle (mirror, Mountain could be better)
1 Earthquake
1 Lightning Dragon

-------------------------------------------------------

15-Sneak

1 Crater Hellion
1 Shivan Phoenix
1 Delraich
1 Avatar Of Woe
1 Phyrexian Colossus
1 Endless Wurm
-
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Dark Ritual
1 Grim Monolith
1 Sneak Attack
-
1 City Of Brass
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Dwarven Ruins
2 Mountain

SB
1 Defense Grid
1 Duress
1 Diabolic Servitude

-------------------------------------------------------

15-Pox

1 Nether Spirit
-
1 Duress
1 Specter`s Wail
1 Stupor
1 Unnerve
1 Seal Of Doom
1 Blight
1 Rain Of Tears
1 Smokestack
-
1 Spawning Pool
1 Rishadan Port
4 Swamp

-------------------------------------------------------

15-Replenish

1 Opalessence
1 Parallax Wave
1 Parallax Tide
1 Cowardice
1 Attunement
1 Seal Of Cleansing
1 Frantic Search
1 Replenish
1 Marble Diamond
-
2 Plains
3 Island

SB
1 Sheltered Prayers
1 Foil
1 Morphling

-------------------------------------------------------

15-Stompy

1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Wild Dogs
1 Llanowar Elf
1 Vintara Snapper
1 River Boa
1 Silt Crawler
1 Blastoderm
-
1 Rancor
1 Giant Growth
1 Seal Of Strength
1 Wild Might
-
4 Forest
 
M

Mundungu

Guest
This format sounds real interesting what about :
1 Dark ritual
1 Delraich
1 senguir Autocrat
1 duress
1 haunted crossroad
1 vampiric tutor
1 vendetta
1 2/2 creature : pay 1 life to untap, cc=1 (donno the name, saga)
1 rat that make the opp discard a card.
4 swamp
1 peat bog
the idea would be to have Delraich out on turn 2 and do the beatdown :)
duress for distruption, tutor to get the peices together, vendetta for the control.
 
G

galtwish

Guest
What about waters?
1 Rising Waters
1 Waterfront Bouncer
1 Stinging Barrier
1 Daze
1 Thwart
1 Foil
1 Seal of removal
1 Nether Spirit
1 Eye of Ramos
1 Rishadan Port
1 Swamp
4 Island

SB
1 Rapid Decay
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Carrion Beetles

The strategy of removing all your opponents cards from the game may be worth looking into more carefully:

1 Spawning Pool
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Dustbowl
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mind Swords
1 Duress
1 Stupor
1 Unsummon
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Carrion Beetles
1 Waterfront Bouncer
1 Nether Spirit

SB
1 Withdraw
1 Maggot Therapy
1 Chill

Or a defensive deck
1 Hammer of Bogardan
1 Arc mage
1 Squee
1 Jasmine Seer
1 Topple
1 Last Breath
1 Devout Witness
1 Absolute Law
1 Spiritual Asylum
3 Mountian
3 Plains

SB
1 Monk Idealist
1 Rack & Ruin
1 Light of Day

A Fire deck might work

1 Lightning Blast
1 Hammer of Bogardan
1 Earthquake
1 Rain of Salt
1 Arc Lightning
1 Avalanche Rider
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Arc Mage
1 Volcanic Dragon
1 Shivan Gorge
1 Dust Bowl
1 Rishadan Port
1 Ghitu Encampment
2 Mountian

SB
1 Orgg
1 Wildfire
1 Seal of Fire

Suicide is an option
1 Phrexian Negator
1 Flesh Reaver
1 Mother of Ruins
1 Skittering Skirge
1 Skittering Horror
1 Devout Witness
1 Stupor
1 Duress
1 Dark Ritual
1 Cho-Manno's Blessing
3 Swamps
2 Plains

SB
1 Absolute Law
1 Unearth
1 Rhystic Syphon

Pretty cool format overall...

Erik
 
I

immortal grave walker

Guest
This idea does sound rather entertaining. I was thinking maybe something like some discard and stronghold gambit with a black and red avatar,and other cards of some sourt.

Also do you start out with 7 cards and 20 life?

[Edited by immortal grave walker on August 15th, 2000 at 03:49 PM]
 
G

galtwish

Guest
Lock deck anyone?

1 Subversion
1 Light of Day
1 Darkest Hour
1 Fountain Watch
1 Lightbringer
1 Mother of Ruins
1 Haunted Crossroads
1 Radiant's Dragoons
1 Monk Idealist
1 Phrexian Tower
2 Swamps
3 Plains

SB
1 Carrion Beetles/Rapid Decay
1 Story Circle
1 Devount Witness

or super defence
1 Wall of Glare
1 Nether Spirit
1 Cho-Manno, Revolutionary
1 Purify
1 Wrath of God
1 Disenchant
1 Rapid Decay
1 Subversion
1 Celestial Convergence
3 Plains
2 Swamps
1 Dust Bowl

SB
1 Topple
1 Soul Feast
1 Rapid Decay

must...get...back...to...work...

Erik
 
C

Captain Caveman

Guest
This looks like a lot of fun. We've been playing around
with the idea some. Now I have a few comments.

Would Wand of Denial be really good in this format? It seems
like; Land,Ritual,Duress,Wand could be pretty good. I'm
not really sure though. What do you think?

I was also wondering if Meekstone or Rootwater Thief
would be good in this format.


I think all of your 15-card examples are good but I like
15-Ponza the best.

I'm going to try these out next week:

15-Ponza (I'm a copy-cat)

1 Veteran Brawlers
1 Avalanche Riders
-
1 Hammer Of Bogardan
1 Stone Rain
1 Pillage
1 Lay Waste
1 Tectonic Break

1 Wand of Denial
-
1 Rishadan Port
1 Ghitu Encampment
1 Sandstone Needle
4 Mountain

SB
1 Open
1 Earthquake
1 Lightning Dragon


15-Pox

1 Nether Spirit
-
1 Duress
1 Specter`s Wail
1 Stupor
1 Seal Of Doom
1 Blight
1 Rain Of Tears
1 Wand of Denial
1 Smokestack
-
1 Spawning Pool
1 Rishadan Port
4 Swamp


Well, that's my two cents.
Caveman
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Erk!

Congratulations, Psychotic Tutor, your Pox deck is four (minor) changes from the ultra-secret deck I currently consider unbeatable - maximium respect is due! What`s more all the changes you need to make to turn it into the deck I am playing were all made in the last 24 hours - your deck is only one playtest session from mine!
That`s damned impressive.

Wand Of Denial - great, but need removal - Massacre
Seal Of Doom - need to spped up removal - Snuff Out
Rishadan Port - can`t tie up 2 land - Dust Bowl
Stupor - targetted discard is probably better - Coercion

And the last two changes aren`t even set in stone yet!

Congratulations once again!
 
T

theorgg

Guest
Mini-Thrive.dec

7 forest
Deepwood wolverine
Groundskeeper
Rushwood Dryad
deepwood elder
Blastoderm
Recliam
Thrive
Wild Might
SB: Reverent silence
SB: Crumble
SB: Dawnstrider


A mini-version of my Monogreen Thrive that I was called a "dumbass scrub" by a guy that was mlong@juno.net(not Mike Long, as it said, but O-well...).

Get out a good critter and Double-thrive 'em using Reclaim(isn't that in MM? it might be a diff. name)

If you stall, use a recursed forest to keep turning one of your opponant's lands into a forest and attack with the Rushwood dryad for the kill...

it could work...
 
G

galtwish

Guest
Yes, the neo-Pox deck is good, but here's a foil to it:

1 Last Breath
1 Topple
1 Disenchant
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Miscalculation
1 Memory Lapse
1 Time Ebb
1 Brainstorm
1 Barbed Wire
3 Plains
3 Island

SB
1 Abolish
1 Zephid
1 Hoodwink
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
What`s your obsession with Diminishing Returns, Erik?

Don`t you remember the 'remove the top ten cards of your library from the game' part?
 
D

Dead

Guest
Hm, how about a Merfolk Deck?

1XLord of Atlantis (6th)
1XRootwater Thief (NE)
1XBlockade Runner (MM)
1XDarting Merfolk (MM)
1XJolting Merfolk (NE)

1XPhantasmal Terrain (6th)
1X Psychic Venom (6th)
1X Ring of Gix (UY)

6 Island
1 Rishadan Port

As i see it, with only a few lands to use mana denial is key, hence this deck is split into two- one half, the merfolk, provides the
beatdown (hopefully unblockable through phantasmal terrain) whilst the rest is there to tie up lands- venom, terrain, port and ring could potentially deny 4 mana a turn for 1 mana yourself.
 
D

Dark Horse

Guest
4 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Fountain Watch
2 No Mercy
2 Worship
4 Mother of Runes

Its not too likely there gonna run disenchant's so try Worship/No Mercy

With 4 mommies, you can keep your stuff from dying, and the foutain watch means your enchantments dont die. They cant attack you, you cant die, so ue your mommies to give fountain watch unblockability, and attack till they die.
 
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