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I think that's a great summary! I really think the only possible answer is to unban a lot of cards at this point. The blue cards, I think, are so fundamental to Legacy's identity that it would be not ideal to ban them. I think ramping up the power in non blue decks by unbanning a lot of stuff to...

Yep, agree with that. Thank you, I'll be here all day. :cool: Yeah, there is a lot of crap on there that needs to be removed before you get to cards that would have an impact. I think a metagame where they unban Top and bring back Miracles, a meta with two very powerful decks, would be...

If 20 years of evidence isn't enough then I don't know what is. You could say in the first few they didn't want to unban stuff because of a high level of prudence, I'd get that. That hasn't been the case forever so I think that's a realistic answer, not cynical. Hell, you could say it's...

They pick the most random times to ban cards. Initiative had less of a metagame presence than Delver after a month or so of the metagame adapting to it. Iteration has been around since 2021. And Delver hasn't really changed much since the Ragavan ban January of last year. I can't tell if this is...

What I find so interesting is that the same basic structure of the deck has mostly remained unchanged, if not most of the cards themselves. The only big difference is that modern goblin decks play 23/24 lands and the SB has more GY hate and REBs. I believe Sonne was correct about the singleton...

Yeah it's kind of absurd. Worse effects in the same vein of Tinker like Natural Order, Academy Rector, etc. still see play and fetch up worse card types. I guess perhaps they assumed something like Tinker would be a healthy part of the metagame but that wasn't really the case in Type 2...

I think that allowing Goblin decks "to do their best" (a good way to put it) would be a great goal. I think pushing the envelope on creature-based decks is perfectly fine and actually should be encouraged via ban list management, in an abstract sense. More specifically, I think Recruiter Goblins...

There is a lot to respond to in this thread that I'm still trying to process but a lot of really great stuff! I would like to say that my interactions with you about MTG have been the best, bar none, on the internet over the last 20+ years. You're very thoughtful and knowledgeable about these...

Yeah, especially in hindsight, it seems weird to let Tinker run amok for so long. Even when it wasn't broken it was "just" very good. PT: New Orleans really demonstrated how nuts the card was. The card was always such a ridiculous design combining the most broken mechanics- cheating on mana AND...

Big fan of Food Chain Goblins. IIRC I think Josh Silvestri made a primer for Vintage FCG back in the day on The Mana Drain that I remember reading a lot. The deck was pretty good in Vintage at the time. Great against Stax or MUD because you could produce way more permanents than the brown decks...

Just a hunch but I'm almost certain that the card was just designed by Mons Johnson since he was at WotC at the time it would have been made. A huge Goblins fan, I think it's pretty likely he made it to play in his decks and it was probably viewed as a "joke" card (complete with silly art) by...

Masknought, I think, was my first encounter with Dreadnought. I still remember it because the deck was so cool. You got to play all the sweet disruptive black cards and a huge threat that closed out the game very quickly. Such a cool deck.

Yeah, I'm surprised because it seems like it should be pretty strong in EDH, fetching big, splashy enchantments and acting as a Moat or just a rattlesnake card in general.

Yeah, Expressive Iteration was the same for me too, exceeded my expectations. It's certainly better than I thought. But better than Cruise? I don't think so. And Dig isn't much worse because the first really problematic deck in Pioneer, UB Inverter, was a deck that played multiple Digs. They...

Yeah, I thought that comment was strange re: Pioneer as an Eternal format. Very weird. It's literally not by Wizard's own definition. Even more strange was the comment about the Delve spells ... that's just completely insane to me. The Delve (mostly TC but Dig too) draw spells are just...

Yeah, that makes sense!

Just a couple of things I don't see is Beetleback Chief, Brightstone Ritual, Fable of the Mirror-Breaker, Hobgoblin Bandit Lord, Legion Warboss, Battle Cry Goblin, Torbran, Goblin Moggcatcher, Imperial Recruiter, Mogg Infestation/Blasphemous Act... that's all I could think of off the top of my...

I totally forgot about all those decks! Good stuff! I wouldn't be surprised to see Karmic Guide pop again in Modern in the future, especially if Pod ever gets unbanned. It's a good combo card as well as just a decent midrange or value card.

Karmic Guide always seems to find itself overshadowed. I'm not sure why either. It was featured in the Flash lists in Legacy ...but that's the only thing I can think of off the top of my head. It's a sweet card in Commander too, one of the better reanimation cards for white. It's actually...

Not a fan of Companion in general but I think it's more or less fine Lurrus was legal, at least after the nerf. But it's fine it's gone too since it was ubiquitous but it wasn't really integral for a lot of decks it was just free to play like in Burn. I guess I'm a bit ambivalent. But I've seen...