Long rambling thing (LONG)

S

Secret Asian Man

Guest
(I'm sorry if any of you guys don't like this or think it's waste of time and end up hating me for it, but I, by nature, am a storyteller. This is my story, and I would like to tell it.)

I started playing Magic when I was seven years old, around the time Fallen Empires was first released. My first cards were given to me by a friend, and included a Kird Ape, a Fireball, and a Hill Giant, all revised. It was the proudest moment of my life when I saved up enough money to buy a pack of Fallen Empires ($1.50). I got an Ebon Praetor and a Hymn to Tourach. These were the days when I thought I could prevent all the damage from a fleet of Shivans and a pair of Lightning Bolts simply by paying 1 to a CoP: Red. I stopped playing for a while when Mirage came out because all of my cards were stolen and I could not afford to replace them.

I started playing once again around the time Stronghold was released. I did some menial work for the comic book store guy and as a reward, he gave me a pack of Stronghold. I got a Grave Pact. It was then that I started my tradition of building decks around the first card of an expansion. I dug out the old pump knights, Breeding Pits, Hymns, Rituals, and other black staples and stuck them into a random deck with no rhyme or reason, as most players of my experience at that time are wont to do. It actually wasn't bad. My friends had also stopped playing Magic for many of the same reasons that I had, and I somehow managed to revitalize the entire Magic community in my Junior High School. The Grave Pact deck grew into a R/B weenie/burn deck with Black Knights, Pump Knights, and Bad Moons, supported by Lightning Bolts and Fireballs. I had no concept of "card advantage" (in fact, I had never even heard the term) and I had no concept of a "mana curve" or any sort. I built the deck based on my tried-and-true experimental 21 land for a 60-card deck rule. It was the Deck To Beat in school and people started building decks crafted to kill it specifically. It fell to U/W damage prevention/blockers/control, and I decided to shelf it and explore my other options.

Exodus was released. My very first rare was Survival of the Fittest. I built an incredibly crude Survival deck that used Demonic Tutors, self-Mind Peels, and Animate Deads. It sucked, but then my friend traded me Recurring Nightmares as crap-rare throw-ins in a trade. I saw the synergy and threw them in, and once again I had the local Deck To Beat.

Saga was released. I got a Time Spiral in the first pack I opened. All of my friends Ooh'ed and Aaah'd, marveling at how similar to the old broken Timetwister this card was. Now, at this point, I had an epiphany concerning Magic and the depths that humans will sink to in pursuit of something that's supposed to be fun. I stuck the Time Spiral into a mono-blue control deck as an inconsistent but still effective "reset button" and it stayed there until a friend showed me this cool website called The Dojo that was dedicated to Magic and had a cool deck called "Academy" in which Time Spiral was an important part. I visited the Dojo, traded almost all of my other cards for the cards I needed for my Academy deck, and built the deck according to the decklist on "Decks To Beat". Naturally, I cleaned up at the Saturday afternoon tourney.

But I felt something strange that I had never felt before when I won that tournament and the 12 packs of Saga...I felt like I had cheated myself. Every single one of my other decks had been good, but they were good because of the meticulous work and effort that I had personally put into each of them. This new Academy deck was better than all of my previous decks, but I personally had not put a shred of effort into it and for some reason, it felt like it wasn't my deck. I immediately scrapped it and traded all the power cards away, and I slowly drifted away from Magic. Understand that it really wasn't fun for me to win with the Academy deck...I felt like a cheap dirtbag every time I did because I couldn't stop thinking about how I had just copied the deck off some Internet site. I missed Legacy, Destiny, and Masques releases.

It had occurred to me that many of my tourney opponents and even some of the friends that I played with casually during lunch were also just copying decklists off the Internet. This sickened me. I felt, and still feel, that this practice is totally contrary to the heart of Magic. Though some of the soulless people who used Netdecks had no qualms about practically stealing the award pot at the tourney with a deck concept that wouldn't even have occurred to them, my personal ethical code simply would not allow me to do that. For me, Magic was supposed to be a battle of wits and skill between the two players, not a battle of my homebrewed deck vs. a Mowshowitz tourney creation my friend saw on the Dojo last week.

I got back into Magic around when Nemesis was released. My friends persuaded me, and the trauma of Netdeckdom has faded somewhat in my mind. I bought a pack each of Destiny, Masques, and Nemesis (Legacy was sold out) and got a Negator, a Port, and an Evincar. I stuck them all into a deck together and got a weird ultra-rogue Suicide Black Weenie that had no real strategy behind it except to beat the opponent's skull with creatures. It was surprisingly effective. I was proud of it. I took it to a tourney and it got school first game 2-0 by Trinity Green. Netdeck, of course. I realized that Magic had entered a new age, the age of the Netdeck, and that if I wanted to keep enjoying this hobbie, I would have to get used to getting my oink kicked. It was a sacrifice I was willing to make at that point, as I had gained the emotional maturity to deal with it (which I lacked in the Academy days). I scrapped the deck and bought a few packs of Prophecy. My first rare was Latulla, and I naturally built a burn deck around her, which fared better than my previous one but still consistently lost first or second round.

I went ultra-rogue when Invasion came out and built a Type I deck that my friends call "Crippled Sligh" because it uses crappy subsitutes like Orcish Conscripts and Goblin Patrols for hard-to-get Jackal Pups and Mogg Fanatics. It doesn't actually follow the Sligh mana curve, but it works pretty much the same. I placed second at a local Type I tourney. Planeshift came out, I got an Urza's Guilt. Brushed the dust off the old Megrim/Rack deck, threw in some blue, and did pretty well. Apocalypse came out. I bought my first box ever, which was a big step for me. The first pack I opened, I got a Spiritmonger and called Wizards because I thought it was a misprint. 5 for a 6/6 with three good abilities? Good lord. It only got worse when I saw Desolation Angel, Pernicious Deed, and Vindicate. So a few weeks ago, I bring in the Apocalypse and offer it for trade. People scurry up to me and ask if I have playsets. "No...I only bought one box." I get sneers and raised eyebrows.

The thing that I hate nowadays about Magic is no longer Netdecks. My ethics have eroded so much that I'v become accustomed to even that. When I sat down at the last IBC tourney in late October as an non-playing observer, I witnessed an event that almost made me literally cry. It was an exchanged between a middle school kid and a Dartmouth student in the first round. The middle school kid had a very rogue W/G deck and the Dartmouth student was playing Dark Fires with Mongers. After soundly trouncing the kid 2-0, he proceeded to explain to him that he couldn't possibly expect to go any further in a tourney unless he went out and spent hundreds of dollars on playsets of Rages, BoPs, Absorbs, and Mongers. Why are you even her with your crappy deck if you don't have Skizziks and Vindicates or anything? Never come here again unless you're actually going to compete!

That's what I hate about Magic. When I got into Magic, it was a fun game to play with friends on weekends and every now and then drop by a tourny and see how well you can do. Now, Magic players are more like football players than anything else. They exercise rigorously, get psyched up for games, and become depressed when the lose. Their lives literally revolve around it, and they are passionate about it to the point of psychosis. Magic is no longer played for fun. Magic is now played for DCI points and foil promo cards.

I have totally stopped doing tourneys. I simply can't deal with the kind of people I meet there. I play Magic with my group of friends over lunch every day. I buy a box of each new expansion that comes out and trade with my friends and ask my friends to get certain cards for me to trade for. I am reacting in an almost Unabomber-like fashion to the abomination that Magic has become. Maybe there's just something wrong with me, but I just don't want to be associated with the typical Magic player anymore.

CPA is where I have come to find Magic players who aren't like that. I am so grateful for you guys.
 
S

shade2k1

Guest
Originally posted by Secret Asian Man
(I'm sorry if any of you guys don't like this or think it's waste of time and end up hating me for it, but I, by nature, am a storyteller. This is my story, and I would like to tell it.)

I started playing Magic when I was seven years old, around the time Fallen Empires was first released. My first cards were given to me by a friend, and included a Kird Ape, a Fireball, and a Hill Giant, all revised. It was the proudest moment of my life when I saved up enough money to buy a pack of Fallen Empires ($1.50). I got an Ebon Praetor and a Hymn to Tourach. These were the days when I thought I could prevent all the damage from a fleet of Shivans and a pair of Lightning Bolts simply by paying 1 to a CoP: Red. I stopped playing for a while when Mirage came out because all of my cards were stolen and I could not afford to replace them.

I started playing once again around the time Stronghold was released. I did some menial work for the comic book store guy and as a reward, he gave me a pack of Stronghold. I got a Grave Pact. It was then that I started my tradition of building decks around the first card of an expansion. I dug out the old pump knights, Breeding Pits, Hymns, Rituals, and other black staples and stuck them into a random deck with no rhyme or reason, as most players of my experience at that time are wont to do. It actually wasn't bad. My friends had also stopped playing Magic for many of the same reasons that I had, and I somehow managed to revitalize the entire Magic community in my Junior High School. The Grave Pact deck grew into a R/B weenie/burn deck with Black Knights, Pump Knights, and Bad Moons, supported by Lightning Bolts and Fireballs. I had no concept of "card advantage" (in fact, I had never even heard the term) and I had no concept of a "mana curve" or any sort. I built the deck based on my tried-and-true experimental 21 land for a 60-card deck rule. It was the Deck To Beat in school and people started building decks crafted to kill it specifically. It fell to U/W damage prevention/blockers/control, and I decided to shelf it and explore my other options.

Exodus was released. My very first rare was Survival of the Fittest. I built an incredibly crude Survival deck that used Demonic Tutors, self-Mind Peels, and Animate Deads. It sucked, but then my friend traded me Recurring Nightmares as crap-rare throw-ins in a trade. I saw the synergy and threw them in, and once again I had the local Deck To Beat.

Saga was released. I got a Time Spiral in the first pack I opened. All of my friends Ooh'ed and Aaah'd, marveling at how similar to the old broken Timetwister this card was. Now, at this point, I had an epiphany concerning Magic and the depths that humans will sink to in pursuit of something that's supposed to be fun. I stuck the Time Spiral into a mono-blue control deck as an inconsistent but still effective "reset button" and it stayed there until a friend showed me this cool website called The Dojo that was dedicated to Magic and had a cool deck called "Academy" in which Time Spiral was an important part. I visited the Dojo, traded almost all of my other cards for the cards I needed for my Academy deck, and built the deck according to the decklist on "Decks To Beat". Naturally, I cleaned up at the Saturday afternoon tourney.

But I felt something strange that I had never felt before when I won that tournament and the 12 packs of Saga...I felt like I had cheated myself. Every single one of my other decks had been good, but they were good because of the meticulous work and effort that I had personally put into each of them. This new Academy deck was better than all of my previous decks, but I personally had not put a shred of effort into it and for some reason, it felt like it wasn't my deck. I immediately scrapped it and traded all the power cards away, and I slowly drifted away from Magic. Understand that it really wasn't fun for me to win with the Academy deck...I felt like a cheap dirtbag every time I did because I couldn't stop thinking about how I had just copied the deck off some Internet site. I missed Legacy, Destiny, and Masques releases.

It had occurred to me that many of my tourney opponents and even some of the friends that I played with casually during lunch were also just copying decklists off the Internet. This sickened me. I felt, and still feel, that this practice is totally contrary to the heart of Magic. Though some of the soulless people who used Netdecks had no qualms about practically stealing the award pot at the tourney with a deck concept that wouldn't even have occurred to them, my personal ethical code simply would not allow me to do that. For me, Magic was supposed to be a battle of wits and skill between the two players, not a battle of my homebrewed deck vs. a Mowshowitz tourney creation my friend saw on the Dojo last week.

I got back into Magic around when Nemesis was released. My friends persuaded me, and the trauma of Netdeckdom has faded somewhat in my mind. I bought a pack each of Destiny, Masques, and Nemesis (Legacy was sold out) and got a Negator, a Port, and an Evincar. I stuck them all into a deck together and got a weird ultra-rogue Suicide Black Weenie that had no real strategy behind it except to beat the opponent's skull with creatures. It was surprisingly effective. I was proud of it. I took it to a tourney and it got school first game 2-0 by Trinity Green. Netdeck, of course. I realized that Magic had entered a new age, the age of the Netdeck, and that if I wanted to keep enjoying this hobbie, I would have to get used to getting my ass kicked. It was a sacrifice I was willing to make at that point, as I had gained the emotional maturity to deal with it (which I lacked in the Academy days). I scrapped the deck and bought a few packs of Prophecy. My first rare was Latulla, and I naturally built a burn deck around her, which fared better than my previous one but still consistently lost first or second round.

I went ultra-rogue when Invasion came out and built a Type I deck that my friends call "Crippled Sligh" because it uses crappy subsitutes like Orcish Conscripts and Goblin Patrols for hard-to-get Jackal Pups and Mogg Fanatics. It doesn't actually follow the Sligh mana curve, but it works pretty much the same. I placed second at a local Type I tourney. Planeshift came out, I got an Urza's Guilt. Brushed the dust off the old Megrim/Rack deck, threw in some blue, and did pretty well. Apocalypse came out. I bought my first box ever, which was a big step for me. The first pack I opened, I got a Spiritmonger and called Wizards because I thought it was a misprint. 5 for a 6/6 with three good abilities? Good lord. It only got worse when I saw Desolation Angel, Pernicious Deed, and Vindicate. So a few weeks ago, I bring in the Apocalypse and offer it for trade. People scurry up to me and ask if I have playsets. "No...I only bought one box." I get sneers and raised eyebrows.

The thing that I hate nowadays about Magic is no longer Netdecks. My ethics have eroded so much that I'v become accustomed to even that. When I sat down at the last IBC tourney in late October as an non-playing observer, I witnessed an event that almost made me literally cry. It was an exchanged between a middle school kid and a Dartmouth student in the first round. The middle school kid had a very rogue W/G deck and the Dartmouth student was playing Dark Fires with Mongers. After soundly trouncing the kid 2-0, he proceeded to explain to him that he couldn't possibly expect to go any further in a tourney unless he went out and spent hundreds of dollars on playsets of Rages, BoPs, Absorbs, and Mongers. Why are you even her with your crappy deck if you don't have Skizziks and Vindicates or anything? Never come here again unless you're actually going to compete!

That's what I hate about Magic. When I got into Magic, it was a fun game to play with friends on weekends and every now and then drop by a tourny and see how well you can do. Now, Magic players are more like football players than anything else. They exercise rigorously, get psyched up for games, and become depressed when the lose. Their lives literally revolve around it, and they are passionate about it to the point of psychosis. Magic is no longer played for fun. Magic is now played for DCI points and foil promo cards.

I have totally stopped doing tourneys. I simply can't deal with the kind of people I meet there. I play Magic with my group of friends over lunch every day. I buy a box of each new expansion that comes out and trade with my friends and ask my friends to get certain cards for me to trade for. I am reacting in an almost Unabomber-like fashion to the abomination that Magic has become. Maybe there's just something wrong with me, but I just don't want to be associated with the typical Magic player anymore.

CPA is where I have come to find Magic players who aren't like that. I am so grateful for you guys.
Amen, brother, amen. :cool:

Personally, I have no problem playing a netdeck, so long as it suits my playstyle and has my own unique touch to the deck, even if it means using "suboptimal" cards. I only play Type 1 now (Type 2 is simply for newbies, IMO), and I play my own variation of UBR OSE. However, since I've always been a big fan of UBR deks, and I like control, it suits me well and reflects a bit on my own personal tastes when I play it against my friends (I also don't play in tourneys; too many arrogant, egomaniacs, like the ones you mentioned).
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Originally posted by Secret Asian Man
That's what I hate about Magic. When I got into Magic, it was a fun game to play with friends on weekends and every now and then drop by a tourny and see how well you can do. Now, Magic players are more like football players than anything else. They exercise rigorously, get psyched up for games, and become depressed when the lose. Their lives literally revolve around it, and they are passionate about it to the point of psychosis. Magic is no longer played for fun. Magic is now played for DCI points and foil promo cards.
And that would be why I no longer play Magic, in general.
 
A

arhar

Guest
Heh. It seems that I heard this same story before, a lot. Well, what can I tell you. Magic is not A game, it's a foundation for many individual games, played by different groups of people, with different goals, that enjoy different things and expect to receive different things from the game. Some are finding enjoyment in winning at all costs, spending money to be ahead of everybody else. While others like nothing more than to spend a night surrounded by good friends, playing a nice multiplayer game that lasts for hours, with everybody playing "stupid" cards and decks, and where the end result doesn't really matter that much. Obviously, you belong to the second group, and you should find more people that do, and play with them. Did that make sense at all?
 
B

Bob

Guest
why do you always get good rares in your first packs? I always get crappy cards like Nefarious Lich....:(

btw, Good Story. :D
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
I dont see that tournament play has to be so cutthroat. The people who play netdecks still enjoy the game just as much as you do. Its not that they enjoy winning, its that they enjoy strategy, and you get more strategy the more honed the two decks are. Personally I find tournament magic deeply enjoyable, far more enjoyable than any multiplayer game - our team regularly sits down to playtest decks for 8 hours straight. We wouldnt play that long non-stop if we werent laughing our oinks of as we did it. Even for tournament players Magic isnt a job, its a game.

Im just standing up because all too often tournament players are cast as Ogres by casual players just because they win more. They become nameless, faceless, and even soulless. That simply isnt true. Tournament players love the game of Magic as much as you do, if they didnt they wouldnt spend so much time on it. If you took time to talk to them as opposed to simply labelling them as jerks you might learn to like them. I go to tournaments now, not because I want to win, but because a tournament is simply where 60 of my friends from around the region get together to play a game we all love.
I can imagine that going to a tournament where you dont know anybody, and getting your oink kicked 5 times in a row and between rounds just sitting around waiting to get your oink kicked again... I can imagine thats not much fun. But if you go to a tournament, and get your oink kicked five times, and in between rounds make new friends and talk about a common hobby that you all share... thats an awful lot of fun, and it`s much more likely to make you want to come back again next time.

Theres the word 'play' even in the term 'Tournament Player'.

But at the same time. Theres an AWFUL lot of people who play Magic. I know from listening to WotC people that they think no more than 30-40% of Magic players are even aware that tournaments exist, let alone attend them. Tournaments aren`t for everyone, they arent meant to BE for everyone. The internet, yes, is geared towards organised play - in fact the internet pretty much INVENTED organised play. But what you see of Magic players over the internet and at tournaments is, quite literally, only the tip of the iceberg.
My group is unique in many ways - we tend not to hide that we are magic players. We talk about it on buses, play it on the tables in trains, in pubs, all over the place. The result is that we meet an awful lot of players who we would otherwise never have suspected were Magic players - one bar we were in talking about Magic, both barstaff played and every sunday evening about a dozen players got together for a regular playing session.

What this is meant to demonstrate is that you shouldnt become disenchanted with Magic players as a whole simply because you label one group as jerks and dont realise another group exists.
 
T

Thallid Ice Cream Man

Guest
I know exactly, and completely, how you feel. I also agree with you completely. Of course, there are people here like Gizmo to broaden people's horizons a little (just as I'm sure there are the opposites of such people on some "tournament" forums). Not all casual players are cheap, simple idiots. Not all tournament players are rich, greedy evil masterminds. In such a large group of players, as arhar and gizmo have said, no one can accurately classify people into two or three, or even a handful of groups.
But if you feel that too many tournament players are like what you describe them as being, that your decks are too "fun" and not "good" enough to win tournaments, or any of a whole train of similar thoughts, then, by all means, keep doing what you are doing. If they, as you say, are cutthroat idiots, then they won't mind. (That's just my philosophy.) If they aren't, you won't know what you're missing, but that won't be bad, because you won't know what you're missing.
All in all, most people are "idiots." Everyone is an "idiot" in some way or another. While they may be "idiots" in different ways, the Magic scene is not very different. If you feel that everyone around you is an "idiot" or "evil", there is no use in self-pity, or in yelling at them. What you can do is look for the people who aren't "idiots." Many of them are here. Many of them are elsewhere.
In any group, you are bound to find "idiots." But don't give up, or you'll never find the ones who aren't "idiots."




PS: I make no claim that I am not an "idiot" myself. In fact I am an "idiot." Woohoo. :)
 
S

Secret Asian Man

Guest
I am certainly not casting all tournament players as "Ogres," and if I was, it certainly wouldln't be for the reason that they "win more." I'm saying that the existence of a group of tournament players that are way too extreme in their lust for victory has driven me away from tournament Magic.

I, too, am an idiot.

~Ray
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
It would be hard for a select few people who were mean, cutthroat, and hateful about the way they play Magic to drive me away.

Knowing who I know...at least about the local scene...I'd say that about 80% of the people who play are like that.

That's enough.
 
C

Chaos Turtle

Guest
Sorry to hear about your negative tourney experiences. I know some of those people, too.

I was actually pleasantly suprised though, when I played at Grand Prix Atlanta last weekend, by the attitudes of the many tournament players I met there. On the whole, they were very friendly, but very serious while playing. The only outright jerks I met were at the side draft tables.
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
I think I'm going to side with Gizmo and CT on this one.

Tourney players aren't out for blood. They aren't out to drain the fun out of the game, or even to become the best of the best. Most aren't out for the money. It's about the game, at all levels of play. Some players make "casual" decks and play multiplayer. I do that whenever I get the opportunity. More often, I get the chance to play 1v1 in tourneys and casually with tourney players. Yes, we play powerful decks. Sometimes, we play netdecks. Believe it or not, that doesn't diminish the game. The strategy, the part of the game I value the most, climbs exponentially as I play with better and better players. It's FUN. That's where I see the fun, and the reason to play - The tactics. Sitting down, and thinking of possibilities.

Tourney players aren't the enemy.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Maybe I just have bad luck, but I know that where I go,

A) Players will *leap* at any chance to get you DQ'ed, including trying to make up offenses,
B) More experienced players can and will lie to newbies to win,
C) Players with sub-optimal decks are told 'I don't know how you expected to win with that piece of crap' instead of helped, and
D) The guy who runs the tournaments gets really rude if you ask to buy something, because then he has to get up from his game of (whatever he's playing that week).

And I don't know of anywhere else in the metroplex to play, either.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Well, like S.A.M. and Isty says, it's their "local" experiences that have caused them to stop playing Magic or tourney Magic right now; perhaps if the players/environment changes, they'll get back in. No biggie, I'm sure they know what Gizmo and others have said about tourney players not being ogres in general.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
If I were rich, I'd rent out a little spot for people to play Magic, and simply put up a little sign I saw in a recent music video: "Be Nice Or Leave".
Unfortunately, as things stand, all I can do is come back every month or so and see if things have changed.
 
M

Major Crime

Guest
I think all plag groups go through a cycle, of the group of freinds "finds Magic". Starts a play group, no-one knows what they are doing.
Then things improve, someone takes the deck which kicks horse - donkey crosses to a tourney, goes 0-6 with it.
After a time more people go from the group to tourneys, start using net decks or a group deck.
Someone gets to a PT.

This is how my play group went, we lost people on the way to school, loss of interst, uni. But then the group gains other people in, some who are PT level, some who have never played. They are all mayed welcome, as we know with out the new players coming in, the play group would fold, or get to small for it to be worth the space the local shop sets aside for us to play in.

Also I only play in the group and the odd prerelease, this are normally fun, and yes you get the PT players, but there are no points or places on offer, so they normally help the newbies along. I'm thing Guy Brew, Gorden Benson and you Gizmo, well never saw you bad mouthing any of the littlens.

In our play group we have people testing decks along side others playing T1 decks, theme decks of T2 T1.5 and people drafting. In our group to make drafting fun we play swiss, and pool the rares at the end, the winner gets to pick a card, then the rest are given out randomly so we all get three. This way we get more of the newbies and the kids involved, as they start a chance of getting good draft cards, instead of having to draft the rares, andthey get the rares to trade.
Also we know of kids who are not allowed to draft because they do not get the rares in normal draft, so our way has the aproval of the parents. We also try to keep the language a bit cleaner on Saturdays so we get more kids in than on the Tuesdays.

So over about 4 years now our play group has been going with the numbers going up and down, and the skill level doing the same. But the main point is to keep Magic fun your play group has to be active at catching and KEEPING the new players.

Oh well I was aiming for a short reply!
 
O

olwen

Guest
I love tournament play. That's because I get to meet new people with unknown playing skills and unknown decks. The element of chance and the element of change makes this game interesting for me.

You will definitely meet 'Spike' at tournaments, the ones who want to win, Win, WIN. Against them, I grit my teeth, play very strictly and chalk up another learning experience. Otherwise, 99% of my duels are with people who are friendly and polite.

If you have lost a duel, ask your opponent for advice, on mistakes that you might have made that you didn't notice, on errors in constructing your deck or in sideboarding. Most everyone likes to discuss game details. When I win a duel against a less experienced player, I might with their permission critique their play styles, deck construction, ...

Hopefully this helps. Net versus home brew decks are another different topic entirely.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Originally posted by olwen
If you have lost a duel, ask your opponent for advice, on mistakes that you might have made that you didn't notice, on errors in constructing your deck or in sideboarding. Most everyone likes to discuss game details. When I win a duel against a less experienced player, I might with their permission critique their play styles, deck construction, ...
*sigh* I used to do this. Very briefly. Every opponent said 'Play a netdeck'. Well, not in those words...but all I heard was 'Play Fires' or 'Play Opposition' or things like that. People refused, flat-out refused to help with my current deck beyond 'Take it apart and play something better' (this last usually spoken in a condescending tone, with eyes rolled).
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
In some cases, that may be the best advice. Some decks are just NOT going to work, despite all efforts. In most cases, though, I believe you'll run into people more helpful than that. I don't know about the people where you are, but in all the places I've ever played, conversations along those lines are commonplace, and they're mostly fairly helpful. While I've seen people recommend netdecks, I've never seen someone unwilling to play with a design if they have the time.
 
O

olwen

Guest
You must also realize that a large minority of those who do play do not have good social skills, and also that everyone has their opinions on what is a good card/deck.

What I'm trying to say is that net decks are part of Magic the Gathering language. It's the fastest way of giving "good" advice without going over individual card choices.

If you never try to ask for help or discuss plays, you'll never interact with your opponent other than the duel itself. If that's what you want, then so be it. Because of the nature of the tournament, some people will be very competitive (i.e., rude/arrogant/...), but not all of them.
 
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