Dark Sligh, post-November Type 2 deck

I

Istanbul

Guest
The cards I think might be good for R/B Sligh:

BLACK
---------------
Creatures:
Hate Weaver
Ravenous Rats
Maggot Carrier
Foul Imp (removed later due to BB)
Serpent Warrior
Spineless Thug
Filthy Cur (removed later due to deck design)

Spells:
Sinister Strength (removed later due to CC)
Dark Banishing (removed later due to inferiority)
Nocturnal Raid (removed later due to selectivity)
Unholy Strength

RED
-----------
Creatures:
Scarred Puma (removed later due to dependency)
Goblin Raider
Orcish Artillery
Mad Dog
Minotaur Explorer (removed later due to discard)

Spells:
Ghitu Fire (removed later due to inefficiency)
Maniacal Rage (removed later due to risk of card disadvantage)
Scorching Lava (removed later due to inefficiency)
Shock
Volcanic Hammer
Blazing Salvo
Flame Burst (removed later due to dependency)
Reckless Charge (removed later due to lack of power)

GOLD
-----------
Creatures:
Shivan Zombie (removed later due to redundancy)
Vicious Kavu
Lava Zombie (removed later due to inefficiency)

Spells:
Terminate

Okay. After some careful consideration, I can whittle it down to:

BLACK CREATURES:
Hate Weaver
Ravenous Rats
Maggot Carrier
Spineless Thug
Serpent Warrior
Filthy Cur

BLACK SPELLS:
Unholy Strength
Dark Banishing

RED CREATURES:
Goblin Raider
Orcish Artillery
Mad Dog
Minotaur Explorer

RED SPELLS:
Shock
Volcanic Hammer
Blazing Salvo (d@mned if they do, d@mned if they don't)

GOLD CREATURES:
Shivan Zombie
Vicious Kavu

GOLD SPELLS:
Terminate

That's 17 different cards to make their way into a Type II Sligh deck. The idea is to play fast, undercosted creatures, and use creaturekill and burn to push damage through.

Trimming away a little of the fat, I bring you:

DARK SLIGH

RED:
3x Goblin Raider
2x Orcish Artillery
3x Mad Dog
3x Volcanic Hammer
2x Shock
4x Blazing Salvo

BLACK:
3x Hate Weaver
2x Ravenous Rats
3x Spineless Thug
2x Serpent Warrior
3x Unholy Strength
4x Maggot Carrier

GOLD:
2x Vicious Kavu
4x Terminate

LAND:
4x Sulfurous Springs
8x Mountain
8x Swamp

This deck should be able to take the fight to your opponent in a hurry. Nothing costs more than 3, most things cost 2.
Burn is levelled at your opponent's creatures for the most part, either to push them out of the way so you can attack or to deal the finishing blow after they take hits from your little guys.
Creature enchantments beg for card disadvantage, so only three Unholy Strengths are included; you should get your money's worth before it dies.
Orcish Artillery can help to lay the kill down if your opponent forces a stall.
The most controversial card is Blazing Salvo, but realize that it's a no-win situation for your opponent: they can let their creature take 3 (3 damage at instant speed for 1 mana...*coughboltcough*) or take 5, putting them that much closer to death. In a deck where your opponent is going to be taking a lot of lumps in a hurry, they often can't *afford* to take 5.

Oh yeah...and if you ignore the need for painlands (do NOT replace them with taplands), the deck is *very* inexpensive to make; Sulfurous Springs is its only rare. :D

Sideboard probably includes Boil, Price of Glory, Ghitu Fire, Scorching Lava, Foul Imp, and other similar cards: blue is too commonplace these days NOT to have them. Regenerators also give this deck fits.

What didn't make the cut:
Foul Imp - Double-black is painful. Pushed to SB in case evasion is needed.
Filthy Cur - I have enough bears, one that adds to my pain isn't necessary.
Sinister Strength - Unholy Strength is faster, and almost as powerful. I need more 1-drops.
Dark Banishing - Too pricey. I wish Terror were still around. Terminate and burn should do it.
Nocturnal Raid - Tempting, but enough of my creatures aren't black, and it's high-CC.
Scarred Puma - Nice one-drop, but without a black friend, he just sits there.
Minotaur Explorer - I don't want to discard my cards, I want to PLAY them.
Ghitu Fire - My burn is more efficient than this.
Maniacal Rage - Too expensive for what it does, in this deck. Unholy Strength is better.
Flame Burst - Very tempting. But unless I draw multiple copies, it's an overpriced Shock.
Reckless Charge - Sorcery-speed temporary pump is barely adequate, even if it's good pump.
Shivan Zombie - A bear that *needs* both colors isn't so hot. Pro. white just isn't worth it.
Lava Zombie - Slows down my creatures a bit. I might consider putting two in.


Thoughts?
 
Q

Quill

Guest
All your damage sources are red and/or black. COP's and Pro-red/black creatures will hurt you. I think you need to consider a source of colorless damage, since you have no enchantment removal, no mass creature removal, and the deck isn't really that fast. If you're going to play straight B/R adding more discard ( maybe to the sideboard) would help out a lot.


Q
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Everything you said holds true for original Fanatic/Scroll/Ball Sligh, except that two COPs are needed for me instead of one. I see very little white around, in general.

What would you suggest taking out and putting in? You offer vague suggestions, but no card names; for example, should I use the R/B enchantment removal card I Wish This Were Real?
 
N

Neil Rigby

Guest
I think that sinister strength (s.s.) is a better choice than unholy strength (u.s.) because the number of times it will make a difference that you are using 2 mana instead of 1 is marginal. You only have 4 one drop monsters so it is statistically unlikely that you are going to be able to u.s. a maggot carrier turn2 (and you probably wouldn't want to anyway, you would just cast another monster), casing s.s. on a 2 power guy also means with a little help from shock/firebolt (whichever you play) you can get through a wall of ice (if people are still playing these in nov t2, I don't even know if people are still playing these now it's been ages since I played t2)
I also think that if you want efficiency from your cards you should play with firebolt not shock, the sorcery part is not really an issue because you want to be casting monsters on your turn all the time and all you want you burn spells for is to remove blockers and occasionally go to the head, being able to do this twice for one card seems more efficient than doing it once at instant speed.
I may have babbled here a bt and it may all be crap but hey just some suggestions listen if you want, and there is no harm trying them out.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
No, you made some valid points on two choices (Unholy vs. Sinister, Shock vs. Firebolt) that I wasn't 100% sure of.

I'll try it both ways and see what happens.
 
F

FoundationOfRancor

Guest
Firebolt over shock seems good to me, what are you doing not playing spells during your turn?

Cant offer alot of advice, but I want to second the idea that Blazing Salvo is good in this deck.

...and its ONLY good in this deck.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
i gotta disagree with Neil about the Strengths. I think you had it right about the cc of the cards in the first place.

But I look at your list and see lots of 2x and 3x, when beatdown decks should be 4x wherever possible. I also dont see the argument for Shivan Zombie. If you only see one color of your mana you are screwed anyway, so the Zombie should be the first bear into your deck!

4 Shivan Zombie
4 Goblin Raider
2 Hate Weaver
4 Emblazoned Golem
2 Flametongue Kavu
4 Skizzik

4 Firebolt
4 Flame Burst
4 Terminate
3 Urzas Rage
3 Ghitu Fire

4 Barbarian Ring
4 Shadowblood Ridge
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
5 Mountain

Of course the deck will lose horribly to anybody using the green flashback monsters. Emblazoned Golem is mainly because I wanted to avoid red monsters so you dont drop down dead to a single color hoser, and the only playable black monsters (Rager and Spitter) had their own problems. If you werent scared of playing so much red then you could use something a little fatter, like an Ember Beast.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
I 2x and 3x for I fear Lobotomy (though not a Turn 2 Lobotomy anymore) and Haunting Echoes.

If I draw RR or BB in my opening hand (and TRUST me, it *always* seems to happen in any deck I have that's more than one color...I could put in four Cities, four Springs, four Ridges, four Volcanoes, and three each of Mountain and Swamp, and I'd draw two Swamps), I can cast some of the beasts on my decklist. Shivan Zombie wants *both*, and pro. white just doesn't come in handy as often anymore now that Rebels are making their exit.

Skizzik is neat.
FOUR Skizzik is a little high for this deck's mana curve.

I will NOT play Emblazoned Golem. No. A thousand times no. There's GOT to be something better out there for colorless damage (aside from Rings, which won't cut it alone). I'd rather use Rod of Ruin.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Dont underestimate the flexibility of a Golem who can fit in at two points on your mana curve, and is efficient at both casting costs.

I think you`ll find - with Mage, Lynx, Galinas Knight, Vindicate, Death Grasp, and Dromars Charm - that Prot:White is kind of handy.

Personally I think my list is actually kind of tight, its certainly a lot better than I thought it would be when I began writing it out. I was just going to throw 60 cards in a pile, but the resulting deck is one I wouldnt be embarassed to play so I`m giving it a proper trial.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Ah, but he's NOT efficient. At 2 mana, you get a 1/2. Poor. At 3 mana, you get a 2/3. Poor. At 4 mana, you get a 3/4. Barely useable.

Half the white cards you listed I never see used...and I do mean *never*, as in none of my opponents play them. Of the others, even Meddling Mage seldom sees play. Lynx and Vindicate are the prime suspects...and among them, I only worry about Lynx. (If my opponent Vindicates, and would target a 2/2, they have issues.)
 
Q

Quill

Guest
Emblazoned Golem, imo would be a very good idea..his flexibility is too good to overlook.

As for the Shivan Zombie...I agree with Gizmo, pro-white is going to come in handy. Especially if you are going without any colorless damage, aren't you the one whose metagame included Pheldagriffs? He wrecks R/B. Vicious Kavu only slows the deck down. And since you're playing with Unholy Strengths the Shivan Zombie doesn't have to ( and probably won't) stay a 2/2.


Q
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Emblazoned Golem sucks.
He's a poor bargain at any cost, except POSSIBLY at four mana, where he's mediocre.
I reiterate: 2 for a 1/2 is bad. 3 for a 2/3 is bad. 4 for a 3/4 is barely tolerable.
 
D

Duel

Guest
Um, doesn't Shivan Zombie get around COP?

Also, DURESS. Why aren't you playing this card? Against enchantments, it's black's first, best, and only defense....

For colorless damage, Barbarian ring is fun, as is the ever-too-costly-to-bought-by-me Urza's Rage (with kicker, like this deck gets the mana). And dodecapod is some good, I hear. If you need colorless, and since discard is prevalent, you may want to maindeck this.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Actually, Shivan Zombie doesn't get around COPs, for the same reason Black Knight didn't; the damage is from a red source. The creature has protection, its damage doesn't.
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
A 3/4 artifact creature for 4 is not only tolerable but just damn good. His being a colorless source of damage is immediately a problem for many decks out there (mainly the ones running Voice of All and Galina's Knight). As a 2/3 he isn't great, but he's not as bad as you say he is.

Looking at the environment and the artifact sources right now, what else is there to play that colorless? Ottarian Juggernaut...no. Rod of Ruin...no again. Ancient Kavu...I hope not. Dodecapod...maybe b/c discard is a commonality nowadays.

Another thing that could work in the Golem's favor is that everything else in this deck is very cheap, so that means you should be able to get away with playing Crosis' Lair, giving you Blue to potentially make him a 4/5. Plus the blue throws the opponent for a loop.

To add to Gizmo's list, Shivan Zombie also gets around:
Voice of All
Order (of Order/Chaos) and the Cantrip Order
Lieutenant Kirtar's ability
Fleetfoot Panther (which is quickly gaining popularity)
Iridescent Wall of Angel
Everything else in the new WW decks that are sure to spawn like rabbits
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Hmmm. On a different note...do you think Rites of Initiation might be good in this deck?
Imagine...turn 1, Swamp, Maggot Carrier. Opponent at 19. Five cards at EOT.
Turn 2, Mountain, Mad Dog, attack for 1. Opponent at 18. 4 cards at EOT.
Turn 3, land, Vicious Kavu. Attack for 3. Opponent at 15. 3 cards at EOT.
Turn 4, Rites, discard my hand, attack for 16. Even if they manage to block, they're almost dead, and whatever they block with is surely gone.

Of course, I realize that my opponent has to drop no creature or countermagic for the first several turns for this scenario to happen...but it could simply be a variation on a theme if they do, just a tiny bit slower.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
No one has any opinions on Rites of Initiation?

Also considering putting Ember Beast in here...his drawback shouldn't matter, making him undercosted phat.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
(Wow. Does this thread have the plague or something?)

If I'm to play an artifact creature, I'm considering one of three choices:
NOTE: My standard I'm judging by is 4 for a 3/3.

1) Emblazoned Golem
Casting cost: 2 + X
P/T: 2 for 1/2, 3 for 2/3, or 4 for 3/4
Special: Any mana beyond 2 all has to be a different color to pay the kicker.

Pros:
1 extra point of toughness
Cons:
Power will never be as high as casting cost
For both kickers, I have to pay 2RB.

---

2) Dodecapod
Casting cost: 4
P/T: 3/3
Special: If discarded, CIP for free as a 5/5.

Pros:
Can be a 5/5 if discarded.
Cons:
Ummmm...none, that I can thnk of.

---

3) Otarian Juggernaut
Casting cost: 4
P/T: 2/3
Special: Can't be blocked by walls. Threshhold: +3/+0 and must attack if it can.

Pros:
Highest power if threshhold is achieved.
Cons:
Lowest power if threshhold is not achieved.

What do you think?
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Rites.
Ember Beast.
Artifact creature.
Advice.
Please.

I'm like herpes...I ain't goin' away. :p
 
R

rkoelsch

Guest
Well I don't like it it doesn't have Blue or white in it j/k:D

I would probably comment more but black is a color I can't play. There is always a suicide flavor to the color. but here are my comments anyway. my pick for artifact creature 5 should be in deck definitely 1 is burn all copies of this card

Emblazoned Golem(3)
Dodecapod(4)
Octarian Juggernaut(2)(I am amazed you even considered this.

I think Rites is a gamble card but if there will be little blue in your area it might win some games.

I would probably play ember beast with cards like Blurred mongoose or nimble mongoose or similiar hard to kill creatures.

Those are my thoughts for what it is worth.
 
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