Orb/Opp - The Deck To Beat

G

Gizmo

Guest
This is the deck you should be testing against.

4 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Merfolk Looter
4 Glacial Wall
2 Temporal Adept
3 Thieving Magpie

3 Force Spike
4 Counterspell
4 Thwart
3 Foil
4 Static Orb
3 Opposition

4 Rishadan Port
19 Island

I`m starting to like this format now, the simple presence of Force Spike always cheers me up no end.
:)
Still quitting though.
 
G

Griffith_se

Guest
Its similar to the Opp/Orb deck I posted below (#2) with the exception of Adept's/Looter's/Port.

Do the Adept's/Looter's/Port's make that big of a difference?
Please explain why.
Thanks
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
The Adepts are ok, they win some game,s are just 1/1 men in others. Looters are amazing at drawing cards - I had thme in my Fish deck, but that had Gush (Looters are cheating when you are picking up Islands from Gush). Ports are good synergy, that`s all - they slow the game down before you get the Orb down, after the Orb is down you`d rarely want to use them.
 
G

Griffith_se

Guest
Here's what I've been playing. So far its been working pretty well.
Is this version just inferior to the one you posted?
What concerns would you have if you were playing this, besides the free A. Recall from the Djinn?

- Creatures 16 -
4 Indentured Djinn
4 Thieving Magpie
4 Spiketail Hatchling
4 Glacial Wall

- Spell's 20
4 Gush
4 Brainstorm
4 Foil
2 Thwart
2 Daze
4 Opposition

- Artifact 4 -
4 Static Orb

- Land 20 -
20 Island
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Without Looters you have consistency issues, and also your monsters are more expensive.
Daze/Spike is a matter of taste, I always take Spikes.
In here Brainstorm is your worst choice unless you are specifically scared about protecting your cards from discard effects. Unless that is the case Opt or Sleight Of Hand are better.
I`d also want 4 Thwart. Thwart is good.
And I`d say Airship serves the beats about as fast as Djinns, but without the obvious disadvantage. If you play Djinn you are committing the deck to playing with Orb in play, whereas without Djinn you can continue happily without Orbs because you aren`t giving them free cards.

I guess the big difference is my deck has more counters (if you count Hatchlings I have 18 to your 12). I like counters, counters are my friends.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Looters really are that good, trust me. I played them in Fish decks for some time, and they're *very* helpful for getting to the cards you need.

'Course, if you're trying to find your combo, there's something to be said for Soothsaying, too...'cept it's not a creature. Might Sage Owls not work well, too?
 
G

Griffith_se

Guest
Hmm... do you think Sage Owl would be better than Magpie?

Sorry Gizmo, this is the last question I'll ask on your thread. I hope you don't mind to much.
 
M

Mars

Guest
Christian Luhrs and Patrick Mello made Top 8 of Germany nationals with a similar deck. To change Gizmo's to Luhrs', say, make the following changes:

-3 Force Spike -3 Foil -2 Rishidan Port
+1 Thieving Magpie +4 Opt +1 Opposition +2 Island

Luhr's Sideboard is as follows:

4 gainsay
2 Hibernation
4 Prodigal Sorcer
3 Stinging Barrier
2 Temporal Adept
 
L

Lotus Mox

Guest
Change Lührs' Opts to Sleight of Hands, the German team which used Orbosition had only a total of 6 Sleight of Hands so some of them had to use the inferior Opt. :)
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
I played that deck just yesterday, give or take some cards. :) It's EXCELLENT. I ran into the following results (which do not all pertain to Gizmo's version):

#1. I made the grevious error of playing no creatures with toughness greater than 1. This got me a match loss against Ponza, though that also had a lot to do with my exceptionally inferior sideboard.

#2. Fleeting Image is a beatstick. He may not look good on paper, but this isn't a standard U/G version of Opposition - You won't always have enough creatures to lock. Fleeting Image is effectively two creatures when you need him, and he's the attacker I prefer. He's also immune to removal if you play properly.

#3. Waterfront Bouncer is better than Temporal Adept. Lower activation cost, lower casting cost. The bouncing of permanents is not often revelevant except in the mirror match, and while you can't bounce Orb with it, he stalls the game for a much lower mana commitment. (Furthermore, I had 4 Oppositions, so I rarely WANTED to bounce my Orb.)

#4. Gush is some good. Mostly because of the synergy with the Looters, but Gush provides the extra consistancy and mana acceleration (when stuck on 3 land, Gush means you have 4 mana) that put the deck over the top.

I did have some basic problems, but I intend to work them out (the main one was a sideboard made of nothing good). I'm curious why there are no Gushes in Gizmo's deck, and why the Magpie beat out the Image. The Glacial Walls will soon find a way into my deck, they're just too strong to ignore any longer. :)

I REALLY like this deck!
 
M

Mars

Guest
I "won" (split with finalist) my local T2 WotC store Tourney tonight with the Luhr deck. My fellow finalist was playing OppoFISHion. Gizmo, who would have won that match, on average, IYHO?

I did make one small change, playing 2 Sleights + 2 Opts rather than 4 Opts, thanks to Lotus Mox's post on this thread. There are times I'd want Instant speed Opt rather than Sorcery Sleight of Hand, and couldn't make up my mind.

Gizmo is correct in saying this should be a required playtest deck. Maybe the deck you play. Gizmo's version is more counter-based. I liked Luhr's just fine. Zadok, I like Bouncer too and love it in my Skies deck, but I won about a third of my games tonight with Adept bouncing mana-screwed opponent's lands back to his hand, as you know Waterfront Bouncer only bounces ctitters. And trust me, getting lands in play for the UUU of Temporal Adept's special ability is no problem with this thing. This is a sick deck and you're in for long games, trust me. Beatdown by Thieving Magpie or Spiketail Hatchling is surreal. Things get sick toward the end as you're whacking for 3 per turn with three critters, you'll see. Go mono-blue!
 
C

Captain Caveman

Guest
"(Furthermore, I had 4 Oppositions, so I rarely WANTED to bounce my Orb.)"

You don't have to bounce it, just tap it and shut it off. Then untap everything at once. If you get the lock down
thats probably game. There might be ways to get out of it I'm not sure.

Caveman
 
M

Mars

Guest
It's a solid lock if you play it right. Keep one critter, say a Glacial Wall, perpetually untapped. Tap your Static Orb by tapping the Wall (Opposition in play of course) at end of opponent's turn. Untap step, Orb and everything else is untapped. You have at least one critter to attack with, hopefully a Magpie thus keeping your hand quite full, usually with counterspells or ways to draw them. During their untap step, they untap two perms. Critters 3 and 4 tap those perms during their upkeep. They can play land and not use them that turn if they wish. Eventually they will. You counter. Or sac Spiketail Hatchling if they tap out to cast. Or return permanent to hand with Adept. It's sick, I'm telling you, but an early Persecute on you is bad times, so counter the Persecute! :) You have 17 critters, 12 counters including Spiketails.
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
I'm aware of all that. My reference was to the number of Oppositions - If you have an Orb, but no Opposition, you often want to bounce Opposition to create a Stasis-esque bounce lock. Gizmo has three Opps, so he wants Temporal Adepts to play Stasis for him. I have four, so I don't need the bounce as much - Most of the time, I'll have the Opposition to lock the old-fashioned way. :)

Really, I know how the deck works - I only play a moron online.
 
C

Captain Caveman

Guest
My bad..............

I thought the reference was to bouncing it with an Opposition in play. I should read it more carefully next
time.

Cavemen are kind of dense, you know!!!,

Caveman
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Often you don`t need Opposition - the deck wants an Orb out, but Opposition is just the coup-de-grace in many games as you can happily counter forever with your ACC stuff - certainly counter long enough to draw into the Opposition.

My version was written off the top of my head in about 10 seconds, I haven`t seen any other versions so I have no idea how it compares to them. I`m supposed to have quit magic anyway, so as far as I`m concerned it`s somebody else`s problem.
:D
 
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