Mono-Black Type 2 needs help vs Fires

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luke twigger

Guest
OK, so here's what I used in a local Type 2 tournament on Sunday, you can read my report at http://www.geocities.com/team_noname/tourney_lt_010311.html. I thought on paper it looked reasonably good against Fires, but if they topdeck a monster late in the game then that's what kept on killing me.

4x Blood Pet
4x Plague Spitter
4x Chimeric Idol
2x Hidden Horror
4x Phyrexian Scuta
2x Tangle Wire
4x Addle
3x Unmask
3x Snuff Out
4x Cursed Totem
4x Dark Ritual
3x Rishadan Port
1x Dust Bowl
1x Rath's Edge
1x High Market
16x Swamp

2x Distorting Lens
3x Perish
2x Ashen Powder
2x Massacre
1x Marauding Knight
1x Bog Elemental
2x Stromgald Cabal
2x Disrupting Scepter

Things I've been thinking of including:

* Splashing 4 Underground Rivers to add Recoil and Lobotomy. Recoil gives me a way to get rid of Fires of Yavimaya cos if they can play that early then their topdecks are almost invariably lethal. Lobotomy would give me a chance to stop them drawing e.g. Burst by removing them from their deck.
* Meekstone - their big monsters would still get one good hit on me though.
* Tsabo's Decree - the only Instant speed mass removal spell I can think of?
* Evil Eye of Orms By Gore - fat butt to block Derms and so on

Things I was thinking of removing:

* Hidden Horrors - yeah they're 4/4 monsters but I don't run that many creatures and too many times I was stuck with an uncastable one of these in my hand
* Tangle Wires - I shut down the early game with Totem and Spitter taking care of the mana creatures and these were normally wasted draws if I got them late in the game.

Are there any */2 Black creatures with regeneration? I thought of adding e.g. Nightscape Familiar to block Blastoderms repeatedly but it just won't work in the same deck as Plague Spitter which is MVP in so many ways.

Thanks

Luke
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Is Wall Of Bone legal?

But basically you are pretty much always going to lose to Fires. Our best answer has been to splash blue for Recoils (utility answer), Avatars (fat, blocks Derms), and Spite/Malice (can counter Bursts). It`s still only like a 40% win ratio vs Fires, though.
 
E

Ekaquinox

Guest
My experience with and against fires is that a mono black deck doesen't win against fires a B/R deck has a greater chance of succes but fires still win most of the time. B/U decks can't win against fires nor against B/R. The deck with black that has a chance to win is a B/R Burn deck.

For now fires is the best, mu ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Check out Zadok's report on how a monoblack deck is doing against Fires in the General Forum, under "What is wrong with 7th" thread by Whimsical.
 
M

Mars

Guest
With all due respect, I do not think Fires is the best deck. Is it the most consistant, other than Sutcliffe Elves? Yes. Does it win the most tournaments? Yes. But that's primarily due to the fact that most people do not know how to play UW Control correctly, the best deck in T2 IMHO. I can't play it, I'm too aggressive. But maybe I'll learn, before Regionals. ;-)
 
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Griffith_se

Guest
Since its Mono Black( i.e. all basic land) Exotic Disease might come in handy (in case You have deficient life total :) ) ?????? Maybe ????
 
G

Goku

Guest
Exotic Disease?
Ah... I miss the days when one would see Drain Life... all the time.

Anyway, Underground rivers would work good, because recoil is good. I would say to run just a bit of discard, but I can't really think of anything good in Type 2.

And I also don't think fires is the best deck.
 
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Griffith_se

Guest
Not nearly as good as Drain Life, but Exotic Disease could potentially ruin Your Opponents day also, no? (plan B)

I know its not a great card but I like it. ;)

"I Drain Ya for 10" 12cc :)
"I Exotic Disease Ya for 10" 5cc :D
 
L

luke twigger

Guest
Exotic Disease, I think not, that's a "domain" card, here's the text:

"Target player loses X life and you gain X life, where X is the number of basic land TYPES among lands you control. "

So X in my case would be 1 as I only control Swamps.

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions, I'm going to keep on testing, I have no problems with any part of the Fires matchup until they topdeck a monster and just win. Evil Eye is going in as he should be an all-star blocker. I also thought of Carrion Wall, a 3/2 regenerator could be handy. The other janky suggestion was Urborg Skeleton (with kicker if it has to survive my Spitter). I'm also going up to 4 Perish in the side.

Or maybe I should just cross my fingers and hope I meet Rebels and UW Control :)
 
M

Mars

Guest
Eye-Go by Eric Kesselman
Winner Week One - 3/4/01
Grudge Match III
Neutral Ground, NY, NY

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Counterspell
2 Dominate
2 Exclude
4 Fact or Fiction
1 Opt
2 Thwart
3 Evil Eye of Orms-by-Gore
4 Vendetta
2 Spite/Malice
4 Undermine
4 Tsabo's Web
13 Island
4 Salt Marsh
4 Swamp
3 Underground River

= Sideboard =
4 Disrupt
1 Glacial Wall
4 Dread of Night
2 Perish
1 Tsabo's Decree
3 Millstone
 
G

Griffith_se

Guest
Hmm,

I guess I misunderstood the text. I thought it meant that X was the number of basic lands You control.
Like 7 swamps = 7 basic land types. Oh well that isn't very good then I guess. :)
 
F

FoundationOfRancor

Guest
Carrion Wall 1BB
Creature — Wall 3/2
(Walls can’t attack.)
1B: Regenerate Carrion Wall.

I havent read all of this thread; Im no deck-deconstructer. This might be able to help you though..
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Getting there, this was going about 50% with a Finkel Fires copy, which was really only short of Flametongues from the current Fires builds...

1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Power Sink
2 Addle
4 Stupor
4 Recoil
3 Spite/Malice
2 Fact Or Ficiton
2 Probe

4 Plague Spitter
4 Abyssal Spectre
2 Thrashing Wumpus/Evil Eye
3 Avatar Of Will
(34)

The real debate was over mana, the decisions being between:
24 land + 2 Rituals
25 land with Peat Bogs and one other spell
24 land with Dust Bowls and two other spells
I certianly preferred to avoid using Rituals as I feel a stronger curve makes the rush of mana unnecessary, though not sure which spells would go in the slots you free up. The strongest candidate would be Bog Downs, I think, but I would prefer to see something in to help fill the 2cc gap - I suppose it depends on which lands you go with as Peat Bogs help you to skip straight to 3cc spells. The others liked the Rituals, but I think they are unnecessary.

So for instance:
1 Addle
4 Peat Bog
3 Salt Marsh
4 Underground River
4 Island
10 Swamp
To fill those last 26 slots.

Personally, I`d also like to add that I`m nost convinced that Bog Down is necessarily worse that Stupor in this deck, but all the others preferred the random pitches of Stupor over the potential for kicker for Bog Down, and I acceptd their greater experience with the deck.
 
C

Cateran Emperor

Guest
Ouch Griffy. Imagine if domain actually did that? Then Tribal Flames would be beyond absurdity!

"Tap 1R, Tribal Flames you for 13"
 
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