Rebel-No

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rkoelsch

Guest
I am going to put together a counter-rebel deck and looking for some help. I'd like to use a long chain.

4-Ramosian Sergeants
2-Defiant Falcons
3-Steadfast Guards
2-Lin Sivvi
2-Defiant Vanguards
2-Thermal Glider
1-Cho Manno, Revolutionary
2-Ramosian Sky Captian
1-Jhovial Queen

4-Brainstorm
2-Dismantling Blows
4-Counterspells
3-Powersink
2-Foil
1-Absorb

4-Adarkar Wastes
3-Coastal Towers
2-Dust Bowls
8-Islands
8-Plains

Sideboard to be determined. Any help would be appreciated
 
S

Squee

Guest
You can play a long rebel chain but it is going to cost you. Plus White-Blue control will eat your deck for breakfast. My changes would be as following

-3 stead fast guards
+1 rebel informer
+2 dominate
-3 powersink
+2 absorb
+1 wrath
- 2 brainstorms
+ 2 fact or fictions
- 2 foils
- 1 thermal glider
+ 2 mystical tutors
+ 1 rout
The guards are not really good, and right now if you cant put rebels back to your library a wrath or rout or any mass destruction spell wins the game. Dominate is for pesky creatures that won't go away, Notorious Assassin and any spellshaper, your deck needs REMOVAL!! The powersinks force your deck to spend mana, you want your mana to sink into your rebels, not into expensive counterspells. THe Fact or fictions are fabulous use at least 2. 2 mystical tutors and 1 rout bring up counterspells, wrath effects and FoF. Mana is great in this deck foils are not that effective.
These are my suggestions for a better counter-rebel Long rebel chains do not work all that well in my opinion.
 
F

FoundationOfRancor

Guest
Im no Deck Expert...but perhaps Meddeling Mage?
 
D

Duel

Guest
Squee, meet nail. He's the guy you hit on the head.

I've been playing counter-rebel for some time, and found that there are 3 essential parts
1: Removal. From parallax wave to wrath of god, you need to get rid of threats. Rebels just don't have the biggest creatures.
2: Recursion. Rebel informer is just good. It allows you an escape from wrath spells, and is a black creature, which is just fun. If ou can trade 1 for 1, your rebels can come back.
3: Utility. 2 dismantling blows and 10 counterspells may not (In fact, I'm pretty sure they WILL not) be enough. It's all about control. Use more dismantling blows, at least 3 total. And something to stop creatures.

The rebel chain is decent, and can win by itself, you've pumped it too much, I think. Mystical tutors are a good idea. I'll have to try them. I wouldn't use meddling mage, though. It's very situational, kinda weak (You can't summon it up), and you need to know what your opponent is playing and what he has in hand.
 
R

rkoelsch

Guest
4-Ramosian Sergeants
2-Defiant Falcons
2-Lin Sivvi
2-Defiant Vanguards
2-Thermal Glider
1-Cho Manno, Revolutionary
2-Ramosian Sky Captian
1-Jhovial Queen

4-Brainstorm
1-Mystical Tutors
2-Dismantling Blows
2-Wrath of God
1-Rout
1-Dominate
4-Counterspells
3-Powersink
1-Absorb

4-Adarkar Wastes
3-Coastal Towers
2-Dust Bowls
8-Islands
8-Plains

I need to acquire the Rebel Informer(the trade fell through) and some more Absorbs. I would rather use Brainstorm as Fact or Fiction requires more skill than I have to use correctly and I don't like showing my opponent my draws.
 
A

Aku Necromancer

Guest
If you have room for a few rappeling scouts I suggest you add a few, they provide amazing air defense
 
D

Duel

Guest
1 nightwing glider and 1 thermal glider would be better, I think,
 
R

rkoelsch

Guest
4-Ramosian Sergeants
2-Defiant Falcons
2-Lin Sivvi
2-Defiant Vanguards
1-Thermal Glider
1-Nightwind Glider
1-Rebel Informer
1-Cho Manno, Revolutionary
1-Ramosian Sky Captian
1-Jhovial Queen

4-Brainstorm
1-Mystical Tutors
2-Disenchants
1-Dismantling Blows
2-Wrath of God
1-Rout
1-Dominate
4-Counterspells
3-Powersink
1-Absorb

4-Adarkar Wastes
3-Coastal Towers
2-Kor Haven
9-Islands
7-Plains

Possible sidebroad local metagame- Fish, Rebels, Fires, Nethergo a lot of rogue

1-Wrath of God
2-Dismantling Blows
3-Armaggedon
2-Mageta the Lion
3-Prohibit
2-Rappeling Scouts
2-Story Circles
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
Though rkoelsch seems to have already figured it out, I thought I'd point out why FoF is BAD in counter-rebel.

Basically, it does the exact opposite of what you're trying to accomplish. In Rebels, you want a certain selection of cards IN your deck, not IN your hand. In rkoelsch's most recent build, he has no less than 8 such cards - A FoF will almost certainly pull one of those and thus damage your eventual objectives. Counter-Rebel runs by casting one, maybe two, sometimes three spells on it's turn. Everything else happens on someone else's turn. Counters, Rebeling, searching, removing. You Wrath and cast Rebels on your turn. That's it.

Fact or Fiction doesn't further those goals. At four mana, it adds to the number of things you need to keep mana open for, and honestly, you'll rarely rather FoF than search. You'll get to draw cards, but you won't get to further your offense or defense. If you draw a Rebel, you have to PLAY the thing - And that means less mana next turn to search, etc...

FoF is a Bad Card(tm).
 
C

Chaos Turtle

Guest
That latest build looks good, but I would make one more minor change.

Use Ramosian Lieutenant instead of the Defiant Falcon.

While I personally think that Defiant Falcon's flying makes it better than the Lieutenant, the very cheap 1-damage spells available (Simoon being very popular these days) make the Lieutenant a wiser choice.
 
R

rkoelsch

Guest
would it be a good sideboard card against ports and dustbowls? I am thinking of putting 3 in my sideboard.

3-Mageta the Lion
3-Teferi's Response
3-Prohibit
2-Story Circle
2-Rappeling Scouts
2-Dismantling Blows
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
None of these decks are bad version, CounterRebels are so variable that everybody has their own build that they like.
For our part, we like Meddling Mage. We think Meddling Mage is our friend.

4 Ramosian Sergeant
4 Meddling Mage
3 Fresh Volunteers (before you ask, the WW for Guard is hard to come by turn 2)
2 Defiant Falcon
2 Defiant Vanguard
2 Lin Sivvi
1 Ramosian Skymarshall
1 Jhovall Queen (she of the fat ass)

4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Absorb
2 Dismantling Blow
1 Dominate
3 Parallax Wave (MVP)

3 Coastal Tower
4 Adarkar Wastes
7 Plains
9 island

The only concern is that 23 land might be low even with Brainstorms, but we are generally a lot happier in the early game than most other rebel decks. If possible, or if something turns out to e crap, we`ll go to 24 land.
 
R

rkoelsch

Guest
are you trying to punish slow starts and then go control if you have to? I also think Meddling mage would be good. What would you name against Fires? My thinking is Fires or Burst or earthquake if you know they run it.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
I don`t think Mage is so good against Fires, it`s really only devastating against decks that are dependent on a single removal spells such as Wrath or Wash out. Vs Fires I guess it depdnds on the build and your hand. If you are holding Wave you probably call Wane (do you call Wane, or Wax/Wane, BTW?) if not then Burst is the single most annoying spell they have.
 
C

Cateran Emperor

Guest
You'd have to call Wane, as both sides of the card are considered independent of the other upon playing. Calling Wax/Wane would be calling two seperate cards.
 
D

Duel

Guest
I have been playing counter-rebel with no -chant targets for a long time (Pre PT chicago, though I seriously worked on it after Corniellsen's deck did so well) and I'm convinced it's the best version of counter-rebel. Possibly with Chimeric idols sideboarded.

Sideboard: (Local metagame About equal parts fires/uw control/amd machinehead, which is big here)
3 Mageta (Mirror Match, bear rebel)
2 Chimeric idol (u/w control)
3 Chill (Fires, machinehead)
2 Teferi's moat (Fires)
3 Story circle (Machinehead, fires)
2 Ivory Mask (Machinehead, fires)

Essentially, I sideboard in 'chant targets. This strategy works well as people often side out disenchants after game 1.

My build is similar to Corniellson's, but I think it's a smoother deck.

4 Ramosian Sergeant
1 Ramosian Lieutenant
2 Defiant Falcon
2 Defiant Vanguard
2 Lin Sivvi
1 Rebel Informer
1 Cho-Manno, Revolutionary
1 Ramosian Sky Marshall
1 Jhovall Queen

4 Counterspells
4 Foils (I have no absorbs, and even if I did, not sure if I'd take out all of these)
2 Daze
3 Wrath of God
1 Rout
1 Wave of Reckoning
2 Dismantling Blow
3 Fact or Fiction
2 Dominate

12 Island
10 Plains
2 Coastal Tower
2 Adarkar wasts

62 cards, 26 land. I was never really a wakefieldian, this deck just seems to work better like that.

Cards I tried out:
Parallax Wave
Meddling Mage
Benalish Heralds
Teferi's Moat
Thermal/Nightwing Gliders

None of them did too well, with the exception of thermal/nightwing gliders, but they didn't wuite make the cut. This deck is very tight, not sure I'd change anything about it.
 
R

rkoelsch

Guest
I went 2-0-2. There was some luck involved and some bad plays. I am fairly happy with the main deck but would like some advise on the sideboard. The environment is pretty typical Rebels, Skies, Nethergo, Fires and some rogue

current sideboard
3-Mageta the Lion(will keep)
2-Dismantling Blow(will keep)
2-Story Circles(unsure of)
2-Rappeling Scouts(unsure of)
2-Prohibit(need to get rid of)
1-Wrath of God(will keep)
1-Misdirection(need more)
1-Tsabo's Web(get rid of)
1-Teferi's Response(unsure of)
 
D

Duel

Guest
how about using aura blasts instead of blows in the sideboard? They're close to as effective, and 3 times cheaper, plus 1 color.

I'd take out the Rappelling Scouts and prohibits, and put in either extra removal or mass disruption.
Possibilites:
Counterspells of various sorts
Teferi's moat
Wrath effects

I'd also dump the web and the response, play with 1 more misdirection and a blank spot for anything you want.
 
R

rkoelsch

Guest
But here is my sidboard now.

3-Disrupt(to be replaced by Gainsay when PS legal)
2-Dismantling Blow(to be replaced by Aura Blast when PS legal)
2-Enlightened Tutor
1-Lightbringer(vs Nethergo)
1-Rappeling Scouts
1-Wrath of God
1-Teferi's Response
1-Misdirection
1-Ivory Mask
1-Story Circle
1-Zur's Weirding

I think the Weirding might be able to lock it down for me.
 
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