U/B Yawgmoth's Agenda

[jcredberry]

This is a VERY GOOD DECK!!!

It is based mainly on counter spells of any kind, included the new UUB counter from Invasion (i don't remember it's name), Recoil for any permanent that you cannot counter, Fact or Fiction and Rhystic Study for card drawing, a couple of creatures to help the UUB counter (that also hits for 3 points) kill your opponent and finally the very abusive Yawgmoth's Agenda to reuse the counters on your graveyard...

I played against it and it's amazing how effective this deck can be...

I think this is going to be the deck to kill on tourneys around the world...

Has anybody played against this deck??? Did you win???

 

[Killer Joe]

on the actual decklist.
Right now, U/B Control is not fareing that great nationally, YET (remember I said, "YET!").

 

[Duel]

The problem with the deck is that it lacks a way to deal with an in-play derm. Perishes on the side may not be good enough. An in-play rebel may be the same thing..... THAT'S why it's not doing so well. Various evil-eye decks have appeared, but none doing too well right now.

 

[jcredberry]

Yeah, Rebels deck is a good idea, but I think a Derm deck is not fast enough to go against the counters... What kind of Derm deck can be that fast to go against a counter deck???

I think I can include a Collective Restrain to shut down a rebels massive attack... What else do you think can be used???

BTW do you have a really good U/B deck using Twillight's Call???

Thanx...

 

[Duel]

LOL!

Fires (w/ derms) is THE deck that gives u/b trouble.
First turn is a mana creature, next turn is a fires, next turn is a derm, next turn is a saporling burst. Unless you have 3 counterspells, you have a MAJOR problem......
Fires goes VERY fast, and is VERY, VERY, agressive. it, more than rebel, gives u/b trouble.

 

[Draconis]

What do we do against Rebels?
Sigh... What *don't* we do against Rebels
(Imagine the evil grin here, pinky in place...)
Tsabos Decree does horrible, horrible things to Rebels, along with Massacre in the board (possibly one in the main.)

Fires with Blastoderm is the main problem, and I think Vodalian Zombie is one of the better answers.
However, Zombie will draw *every* burn spell in their deck, and dies to Ancient Hydra, so you have to turn to...
Dramatic drum roll...
The Secret Evil B***h-Monster of Death

Plague Spitter.

Turn 1, preferably.

Think about it. Especially if they don't know what you're playing, that great hand they kept just turned into a horrible hand that they would pay money to mulligan. Don't you *love* it when that happens?

I think that a combination of Vodalian Zombie, Plague Spitter and Addle may be what's needed to break into Fires, as long as you have a strong enough midgame to follow on from the devastating first couple of turns. I would suggest something along the lines of Crypt Angel, Thrashing Wumpus, Andradite Leech (No, really...), with a possible use of Glacial Wall for defense (borrowing from Eye-Go, here.)

Assuming it gets anything good from Planeshift, I'll probably be playing U/B for a while..

 

[Duel]

Against fires? PLay a 1/1? How long do you think that will live again?
And against rebel, once a lietenant is out, a 1 toughness creature need never see the light of day. PLUS, with a cc of 3, unless you ritual it out, they have a nice opporunity to counter it....

 

[jcredberry]

And what do you think about adding some sort of creature control that doesn't kill them, like Collective Restrain...

 

[Draconis]

Ok...
First of all, 'how long will it live' depends on the specific type of Fires deck you're playing against.
The specific burn they use varies, but is never more than about 4 cards maindeck (either Rhystic Lightning, Ghitu Fire, or Assault/Battery.)

The point with Plague Spitter is that it screws their mana-curve completely, making any Birds/Elves/Hydras/Boas in their hand redundant until they finally draw a burn spell, and between 4 Spitters and, say 3 Vampiric Tutor, you *will* have another Spitter ready. And if you think Spitter doesn't do anything against bigger creatures, you are *so* horribly wrong.
Let's say you have a Spitter in play. You cast another Spitter. What happens in your upkeep?
Everything in play takes 4 points of damage. That sweeps up Rebel and Skies decks and dumps their entire board in the bin. That's not even considering the *main* anti-rebel cards in the deck, 1 maindeck Tsabos Decree (1 or 2 more in the board) and a couple of boarded Massacres.

The deck I'm testing now is :

4 Plague Spitter
3 Glacial Wall
4 Chimeric Idol
1 Crypt Angel
1 Air Elemental

4 Dark Ritual
4 Addle
3 Unmask
3 Vendetta
2 Lobotomy
2 Wash Out
3 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tsabo's Decree
1 Yawgmoth's Agenda
1 Perish

4 Rishadan Port
1 Dust Bowl
4 Salt Marsh
4 Underground River
7 Swamp
3 Island

Sideboard, probably something like :
2 Tsabo's Decree (Mainly for Rebel/Counter-Rebel)
2 Massacre
1 Perish
1 Dust Bowl
1 Vendetta
3 Recoil
4 Undermine, Spite/Malice or Counterspell (not decided yet)
1 Bribery

 

[Duel]

Question: Let's say you have a Spitter in play. You cast another Spitter. What happens in your upkeep?

Answer: A 4 point pestilence, killing all of your creatures and leaving blastoderm, rith, and jade leech unscathed. Why do you ask?

I prefer a less creature-oriented control deck.

 

[Draconis]

Killing all of my creatures?
Apart from the Glacial Walls, the Chimeric Idols, and whatever you've been holding with the knowledge that you're *going* to drop the second spitter.
Crypt Angel works perfectly in this example as something to cast, as they may take the 4-point pestilence as a cue to Rage, Rhystic Lightning or Ghitu Fire your Wall. If they do this, Crypt Angel comes down, brings back the Wall, and leaves Rith standing around looking sheepish until you say 'Wash Out, naming Green' and go to town.

And besides, that example was mainly for Rebels. The single Spitter does enough against Fires.

 

[jcredberry]

The friend I saw playing this deck had Tsabo's Decree and Bribery for creature control and Nether Spirit as main creature (he will have so many cards in his hand he'll finally play it for free. Besides, I had a pretty hard time not letting this creature alone in his graveyard) and it works pretty good against Blastoderms . He also had Misdirection and Chill as sideboard against fires, which finally is the only deck that can easily kill him. And to return the Yamivaya Fires he had Recoil.

I told him to include as sideboard a Millstone for blue decks and Spinal Embrace for G/W 'geddon decks.

I have to say that I'll like Lobotomy to Addel any time...

 

[Duel]

Draconis, you seem to think that you WILL have an ideal hand here, plague spitters are near-useless late drops, especially if YOU'RE low on life, or can be. And they're a clock. Fires LOVES a clock. It will lay down a couple big beats, maybe a dragon, and WAIT, and then begin to burn..... Hammers and Rages and Riths, oh my......

 

[Draconis]

A couple of points...
The likelihood of Fires casting Rith, Two-Headed or Saproling Burst in anything *like* the early game with no Elves and Birds is very, very slim.
Particularly with Port, Dust Bowl and a hefty slab of discard to pick out the biggies from their hand while they're crawling through their deck looking for basic land.
Rith *really* doesn't bother a partially black deck running Crypt Angel.
And how am I assuming I have an ideal hand?
Between 3 Vampiric Tutors, 4 Dark Ritual, 4 Plague Spitter and 3 Vendetta, the likelihood of getting a Spitter down when it will make a difference is very high indeed.
You also seem to credit the Fires deck with more removal than it will *ever* run, especially maindeck.
I have *never* seen a Fires deck run Hammer, and I have seen very few well-built ones running Rage. The burn-spells of choice are generally Rhystic Lightning or Ghitu Fire, one of which is not too hard to play around, and one of which is extremely mana-intensive.
Lobotomy is also savage with Spitter, as it leaves them with a Burst sitting, unexpectedly and helplessly, in their hand, waiting to be ripped out.

And you say that Plague Spitters are near-useless late game. First of all, they're not nearly as useless as you seem to think, as late-game they will kill a *lot* of mana creatures, plus you have the option to double up. You also have Unmask to pitch them to.
And anyway, there's very little point in saying 'they're bad lategame, don't play them'. Otherwise, people would never play with such dreadful creatures as Mogg Fanatic, Jackal Pup, Phyrexian Negator, Llanowar Elves...
And surely it's worse to have creatures that are *completely* unusable until the late-game?
Specifically thinking of Obsianus Golem, but also including Rith, Two-Headed, Blinding Angel?
And yet, again, people find the courage to play these cards...

 

[Duel]

1cc's don't have to be good lategame. 3cc's do, or at least they must be REALLY effective early game. We're talking ball-lightning/Phyrexian-negator style beats.

The deck, I am telling you, has consistend trouble with fires. I know. I built the friggin' deck and got beaten. And U/B is MY COLOR COMBO. I LOVE U/B. The deck occasionally dominates but generally has it's head handed to it. On a silver platter, no less.

The problem is that fires uses better creatures. And once they hit the needed mana, fires' creatures are not only bigger than yours, they're more versatile, and they have haste. A lobotomy for anything but a fires doesn't hurt, anyone who thinks fires needs a burst to win has never seen fires play.


And you seem to think that rith and blinding angel are useless late game. WTF? Are you kuukuu for Cyrpt angel or something? They are damn good. And a crypt angel is only as good as yoru defense. It's a 3/3 flyer, pro-white. No abilities but a potential 7 turn clock. Now, crypt angel is underrated, but rith and blinding angel are just better. Look, you build the deck, and play it at a tourney. Watch counter-rebel, machinehead, and fires crush it. I did.

Dunno why you've never seen fires run hammers. Many do. They're good cards. Crypt angel is not the end-all and be-all of flyers. Nor does glacial wall a prison make. Those spells are both good spells, but fires is a good spell deck, simply put, there should be no bad cards. Blastoderm must be countered. Same with skizzik/jadeleech/two-headed dragon. Dragons, in fact, REALLY REALLY HURT.