economics of MtG

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yawnmoth

Guest
To what extenct should WotC be concerned about the secondary (consumer) market beyond that of determinig which cards are overally abusive in game play? For example, should they care whether or not a Serra Avatar is worth more than a Argothian Enchantress?
 
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DÛke

Guest
Are you trying to dominate like you did in MTGnews? ;)

I don't think WotC should care any about the prices of cards. Why should they care? I don't see the reason.

If the Serra Avatar is "more powerful", than the way to fix it is to ban, or restrict it. If they raise or lower the money value of such cards, nothing would change. Those who spend $300 on a deck wouldn’t mind at all spending an additional $60. If WotC change a price, it will affect nobody, except the casual players. Does WotC care about the casual players? Yes, to an extent.

In conclusion: WotC has no right, and no power, as to what cards should cost how much.
 
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Ura

Guest
As far as I know, isn't it illegal in the US for companies to price set/fix, or basically have anything to do with the secondary market value of their products? Or something like that.
They can say what goes as far as banning and restrictions are in the competitive field, and how many of each card is made originally. But they can't say something like, "Black Lotus is now worth $600.", or anything along those lines.
 
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Neil Rigby

Guest
This thread seems a little redundant because WotC obviously don't care about the prices of cards on the secondary card market.
The reasons for this are twofold:
1) WotC cannot affect the prices on the secondary card market without actively buying/selling on said secondary market
2) Transactions carried out on the secondary card market don't net any further funds for WotC
So they yherefor have no reason to care about secondary card market prices at this time

p.s. I think Ura is about right when he/she said that it is illegal for Companies to do this anyway.
 
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Ristik

Guest
I think the thread's title says it all. The secondary card market (and the primary card market, for that matter) is based on economic primciple. The basic economic principle of a capitalist economy is supply and demand. Wizards CAN set a price on the secondary market, but it means nothing. People selling the carfds will continue to sell them for whatever they can get. In fact, the only reason we don't see this in the primary market is that it is not profitable to undercut the MSRP of $3.30. Therefore, the legality of setting up cards prices is not an issue; the enforcability is. And a suggested secondary price is not enforcable by any means.
 
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Landkiller

Guest
Why doesn't WOTC reprint older cards? To maintain the value to collectors. Do you think it would be a good decision to reprint stuff or not? It would not be tournament playable at any level, except if the set it came from was still playable, in the same way as people can use Beta lands. An exception for sealed deck or draft using only these reprints, I guess.

The cards that would be reprinted would detract from the collector. However, they would also make money for WOTC, except if too many people quit in outrage. Economically, however, I think they would be successful, because new players are more turned off by never being able to find old cards than old players would be turned off by the set.

I for one would love to see a set of "good" reprints. All cards from Alpha to Urza's Destiny. Since those are the sets out of Type II. The reprints would be limited to the popular or unique cards, as well as reprinting errataed versions of cards that need it. They would not have the original set symbol, and might be gold bordered.

Cards I want reprinted
Basic Set -- Moxes, Time Walk, Duallands, Black Lotus, Timetwister, Balance, Wheel of Fortune, Illusionary Mask, Serra Angel, Sengir Vampire, Black Vise, Stasis, Hypnotic Specter

Arabian Nights -- Juzam Djinn, Drop of Honey, Elephant Graveyard, Library of Alexandria, Bazaar of Baghdad, Sharahazad, Ali from Baghdad

Antiquities -- Argivian Archeologist, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Workshop, Strip Mine, Ivory Tower

Legends -- To be quite honest, I don't know 99% of this set.

The Dark -- Maze of Ith, Ball Lightning, Merfolk Assassin, Goblin Wizard, Tivadar's Crusade

Fallen Empires -- Thallid, Thallid Devourer, Elvish Farmer, Fungal Bloom, Basal Thrull, Armor Thrull, Orcish Spy

Ice Age -- Necropotence, Minion of Leshrac, hmm...don't know too many of these

Alliances -- Force of Will, All the lands in the Lake of the Dead cycle, Balduvian Horde,

Homelands -- Only Apocalypse Chime!

Mirage --
I'm in a hurry now, so BLAH!

Visions --
Weatherlight --

These two sets I don't remember much. Teferi's Puzzlebox, or whatever that was. Nekrataal.

Rath cycle -- Didn't play magic
- Cursed Scroll, Wasteland, Recurring Nightmare, Survival of the Broken Decks

Urza's Cycle -- Avalanche Riders, Rancor, Yawgmoth's Bargain, Donate, Sneak Attack, Temporal Aperture, and more.

Reprint any card that is errataed also.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Not the reprint debate!

Regarding the original question, I don't think WOTC should care about how much a card is worth on the secondary market (and I don't think they do).

Regarding reprints, I don't think it'd be feasible unless they were playable. So under that assumption, in interests of maintaining the play balance, I wouldn't mind seeing those that AREN'T abusive (so do NOT reprint the Power Nine).

If the cards WERE printed as a "collectible" set or whatever, personally I feel it'd be nice but I also feel you ought to go out and work at getting one, rather than just buying them in a set or boosters or whatever. I also have reservations on how well such a set would sell; I guess I'd need to know how well other "collector" sets like the Championship decks sell (and maybe Unglued).
 
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yawnmoth

Guest
Actually, Landkiller made a very good point - WotC can effect the secondary market when it comes to reprints. Why wouldn't they do another set like Chronicles unless they are trying to appeal to Collectors? I mean, Chronicles did, IIRC, appeal to the casual player (not sure about tournies back then, though), and, as far as I see it, the only outcry came from the collectors - it lowered the value of the cards they had previously gotten from the older sets.
I don't think that those who lost money would have stopped playing Magic either, and considering that casual players buy more cards than collectors, I don't think that Chronicles would be such a bad idea. This seems to suggest that WotC cares about the price of Magic cards on the secondary market, but I could be missing something...
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
It's true the release of Chronicles caused a dip in prices, but to me that says WOTC DOESN'T care about the secondary market. "Caring" means to me that they worry about prices and actively try to affect them. Well, I guess Chronicles can be seen as actively affecting them but I think they were catering more to the players and the price dip was just the result; it was the effect, not the cause. A fine line...

The only concession I could see them making to the collectors is the No Reprint List where collectors are assured that certain cards won't be reprinted, thus (presumably) keeping their current value (depending of course on supply and demand anyway).
 
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