D&D and RPG and Anti-Anime Propaganda

[Ura]

Honestly I foudn the planescape setting to be crappy and alot of other people did too which is why the line was cancled. Sales were too low. I thought it was too dreary and you were either bored or scared of getting ripped apart by a random tanarri or batezu that is strolling the streets in sigel.
I loved Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft though, both were fantastic settings.

I also love Rifts, I think you just had a bad luck experience with it Landkiller. Its got one of the easiest combat systems to learn and character generation shouldn't take 4 hours. I can do up a Rifts character in about 15 minutes. The MDC and SDC system difference made sense too so that you couldn't go and bash apart a tank with a metal baseball bat or some other dumb action like that. It was designed to represent realizm between normal and military weapons and armor. And of course, the MDC system is totally optional as it says right in the begining of the combat section.
As for the bad layout, I've never had a problem with them and they're the only company I know of that includes a quick find table in each book, so that its EASY to find things. I remember some of the early D&D books being horridly layed out too, but that was years and years ago now.

I've found all kinds of problems with the old AD&D, the new 3rd edition is a good system, buts its patchwork stolen from all over the place. Rather then get all the bugs worked out of their system, they just swipe and retune one from a different game, in this case Earthdawn is being called the main victim. Otherwise it just suffers from a lack of original material and story line for some of their modules. The first one, The Sunless Citadel is chock full of errors that could have been easily corrected if they read it before printing it.

As for anime cheesiness, every RPG has that. Thats what makes them so amusing, but you could just call it cartoon cheesiness as easily. Since when do american newpaper reporters fly around in blue and red tights saving the earth, or do photographers gain the spider like abilities after being bitten by one, even if its radioactive. Thats just as cheesy as the DBZ crap that north america has created from the actual series.
Honestly, if all you've been exposed to is DBZ, Pokemon, and Sailor Moon, then you haven't seen real anime. You've seen the americanized slop thats left over after chopping the show to bits, welcome to the media smelting pot of the world.
There are several excellent movies and series, some of which have been listed in this thread that are far greater and more impressive then the junk thats shown on tv networks here.

I'm done ranting now.

 

[Landkiller]

Reply to everyone about anime :
Well, everyone, thanks for intelligently disputing my points. Most people I know just say "This is cool" and then I respond "No, it isn't". I got some insight from the conversation. I can respect that some anime will naturally be better than others, and I was surprised at the maturity of all the responses.


Planescape rant : Skip this long paragraph if you don't play D&D, you will only be confused. Even if you do, it still could confuse you. Be Warned!

Planescape can be done in 5 million ways. If a constant fear of a fiendish massacre ain't your cup of tea, there's plenty of elemental planes and upper planes. And The Ethereal is cool. It really is cool. I mean it. The guide to the Ethereal converted me to believing it is the coolest setting ever. (With Difficulty, Landkiller restrains himself from talking any further about Ethereal)
Heck, even on Acheron, or Pandemonium you aren't that likely to deal with fiends. Only in the Abyss and Baator are fiends generally found. Baatezu won't do anything undiplomatic in Sigil(though they might if no one will notice) and any one should know better than to attract Tanar'ri attention. A planescape campaign need not even leave a plane once, or visit Sigil ever. Just by setting it on any outer plane or inner plane it uses Planescape material. Plus, the books have useful information for any game using the canon planar structure. I know a few people who don't like Planescape, and others who like it for the wrong reasons. I like the variety of it, the excellent color artwork. I like the faction concept. I wrote quite a bit of original material for it on mimir.net actually. I am not saying it's the best campaign setting for anyone, there are reasons to dislike it. A typical campaign has little supernatural mystery to the game. It makes the fiends and celestials seem common citizens and takes away some of the power that should be associated with being in their presence. Also, some may dislike the language style most PS books use. I even have things I dislike. Sigil, the main city, is a place I don't particularly like. Planescape's icon, the Lady of Pain actually bores me. Lawful Good Planes are extremely boring. I ran a campaign in Arcadia for a couple months, and it was actually fairly good. But, it took a lot of effort to think of things the PC's could do. It's like running a campaign in Cormyr, possible, but less exciting than the more chaotic Moonsea and Dalelands. Planescape is my favorite setting, but I'm quite a fanatic. My characters are a human thief from Pandemonium, and an Ice Genasi Mage from the Ice Para-Elemental Plane. I like the interesting stuff, at the price of atmosphere sometimes. Generic fantasy is too cliche for me, although if I'm in the mood, it is fun to run a "Conan-style" dungeon-raid game with an improv campaign setting.

I'm not really qualified to say a lot about Rifts, but I did find that it was difficult to know which book contained what, and where it would be in that book. I didn't use any charts, so that coulda been my problem. I really would have played the game if my group and I understood it. Because the storyline, character types, and world was tres cool.
Magic and a blend of high technology with a chaotic world? Excellent.

For D&D :
Third Edition seems like an improvement, but 2nd edition was too well-developed to replace. They invalidated so much existing material I'm not sure I'll convert. In fairness, I've only glanced through the Player's Handbook a couple times at a friends' place. They balanced the game, but it will be difficult to change over. And I had thought the Player's Option books fixed D&D.

Actually, Ura, I do think Spiderman and Superman are pretty stupid. As far as superheroes, Batman in general is pretty good, especially the first movie. The old TV show is a POS, and the cartoon version was surprisingly good. The new X-Men movie was good. Although it doesn't have a good ending, it humanizes the heroes, rather than just showing their powers. Except for Storm, and Cyclops. But the villians are stupid. Toad? What a retard.

I dislike comic books as a medium for one reason. If I went and bought a random comic book, I would have no idea what was going on. I wish that it was easier to get into. You can't pick up just any comic book and read. It actually scared me out of comic books when I did this a couple times. I got some weird stuff. Most comic book store employees still freak me out. A semiconcious prejudice, I guess.

 

[fuzzy510]

Look at some of the other things that anime has spawned. Go to your local Blockbuster, and you will notice the incredibly large amount of cruddy movies aimed at five year olds. Plain and simple: anime sucks!

 

[Ura]

Well gee Fuzzy510, do you often watch movies aimed at 5 year olds? If you do, why? If not, then who cares, theres a reason they're cruddy, because they're for 5 year olds.

 

[Copious Wrath]

So don't watch the animes targetted at five year-olds. Simple as that.

And, on a related note, before reading this post, I was at a Blockbuster to (surprise, surprise) look for anime to rent. There wasn't a *single* movie that was obviously aimed at five year-olds, and, added to that, most of them (i.e.: Kite, Ghost in the Shell, Vampire Hunter D) I wouldn't consider appropriate for anyone under 16 or so.

*Plus*, Blockbuster isn't that good of a place to find any anime of any sort of quality -- in fact, most video rental stores aren't. They will stock what brings in the money, and if thirteen americanized DBZ tapes will rake it in, they will stock those, instead of, for instance, the entire line of Neon Genesis Evangelion, which has more story, character development, and all-around content in it's metaphorical pinkie finger than DBZ will *ever* have.

 

[Copious Wrath]

Originally posted by Landkiller
Reply to everyone about anime :
Well, everyone, thanks for intelligently disputing my points. Most people I know just say "This is cool" and then I respond "No, it isn't". I got some insight from the conversation. I can respect that some anime will naturally be better than others, and I was surprised at the maturity of all the responses.

You're quite welcome. It's always nice to have a good debate going, especially over something like this. If you're ever interested in finding some *GOOD* anime to watch, and not some americanized crud, just PM me or somethin'.

 

[Spiderman]

Since Ura and Landkiller seemed tohave delved into comics, I feel compelled to respond.

First off, I'm not even sure how it got into this conversation.

Second, it's called SUPERHEROS. Sure, you have the heros that don't have any REAL powers except their own skills (like Batman and Punisher), but honestly, what fun is that and how many of those can you get into? It's kind of like GI Joe or something... the point of the "SUPER" is to have powers that "ordinary" people can't or don't have. And if you have to make up how they got them... well, wouldn't YOU be wondering how they got them?

Like I said in another thread, you don't play D&D for the science-fiction aspect of it

 

[arhar]

I agree with you on most points, Landkiller, except your nickname.

D&D is the original fantasy role-playing universe, and nothing has surpassed it, probably the safe bet to say that nothing will. The rules are the most balanced out of all role-playing systems, and there are so many settings, so much to do with your characters, just so much of GOOD STUFF, that it will be an RPG to play for a long time.

And anime does suck, I have watched a fair amount of it, even some of the ones back in the 80's, and the plots are simply retarded most of the times, all characters look and act the same, and the whole concept of badly-drawn girls with gigantic eyes and breasts, tiny mouths, purple hair and huge guns, in EVERY anime, is just plain lame. Of course, everyone has their own cup of tea, but this is mine.

 

[Ura]

Just a quick reply to Arhar:

And anime does suck, I have watched a fair amount of it, even some of the ones back in the 80's, and the plots are simply retarded most of the times, all characters look and act the same, and the whole concept of badly-drawn girls with gigantic yes and breasts, tiny mouths, purple hair and huge guns, in EVERY anime, is just plain lame. Of course, everyone has their own cup of tea, but this is mine.

This is a VERY untrue statement on anime as a whole. While it may reflect your experience, as the head of my cities japanamation and manga club as well as an anime and gaming shop owner I can say that I have considerable more experience with anime then probably most people on the CPA. You haven't watched a fair amount because thats like saying you've seen more then 50% of every tv series ever run in north america, I have over 800 hours of anime in my personal collection and I haven't even begun to scratch the surface on seeing a "fair amount". Anime is a huge and diverse art form and is highly respected in japan as a cultural art form for those who are true masters of it. Anything, I repeat ANYTHING that has ever been made as a tv sitcom or series in north america has been made in the same fashion in an anime series.

Some basic statistical data on anime in North America for you:
-The prime target area for anime renters and buyers is adolescent males age 14-20.
-The prime genre's that these subjects rent are either violent (big guns, mecha), hentai (sex), or watered down martial arts like DBZ.
-Barely anything besides these styles makes ANY money here because only the real anime fans know whats really out there and honestly, most teenage guys think with their lower brains 80% of the time anyways. Shop owners will not bring in product that will not make them money, thats bad business.

While I understand that your experience with anime has jaded you to it, it simply isn't fair to classify an entire group as garbage based on limited experience.
If a man from the country A shoots a person from country B for no reason, does that make all country A citizens psychotic gun toting maniacs? Of course not, because the cause of the individual should not have the effect of condeming the whole of the country simply by relation.
The same rings true for any situation, regardless of scale and severity, where a small sample or example is being used to make judgement on a much broader topic.

ok, so it wasn't quick, but I'm long winded anyways.

 

[Baskil]

There is other anime out there besides DBZ or Ultra-Violent videos like Urotsukidoji.

For proof, see:
Grave of the Fireflies
Kiki's Delivery Service
Any of the Ranma series
Princess Mononoke

 

[Copious Wrath]

Originally posted by arhar
...and the whole concept of badly-drawn girls with gigantic eyes and breasts, tiny mouths, purple hair and huge guns, in EVERY anime, is just plain lame.

Do you stereotype *much*? I'll bet I can name five animes with no female characters like *THAT* in them.

 

[Azreal the Soulmaster]

um i can name two right off the bat Copius Wrath
Escaflowne (the good version, not that god awful crap fox pulled)
and Trigun
these both have female characters, but they are very conservative and exist only to progress the plot and the main character(s)

 

[Phyrexian Pie-Eater]

"Anything, I repeat ANYTHING that has ever been made as a tv sitcom or series in north america has been made in the same fashion in an anime series."

On this comment i have to things to say.

One: thats pretty unorigional. I mean, i could think up great stuff to if I wasn't working from scratch(yes, i'm aware that there is loads of anime that is origional but you get the idea.)
Two: There was a Mork and Mindy anime? Thats kewl

As for D&D: When Wizards said that you could convert your old stuff from 2nd to 3rd edition what they ment is: you should throw it away, and convert yourself to 3rd edition. If you like the old stuff, stick with it. It will be a pain to try and convert old stuff to new. Thats why my Co-DM and I just make up our own stuff. It takes more time than having pre-written campains, but we can do it.

On the topic of other RPG's: The best system that i have played is LUG's Star Trek. This thing kicked so much ass. Then Wizards had to go and buy LUG, and convert them to the d20 Ststem. Those corporate whores!

Final note: I've seen Ghost in a Shell, and most people find me a fairly intelligent person. But my friend(a big anime fan) and I can't seem to find much flow in it. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

[littlesaltz]

I like DBZ. Nice plot lines, cool charecters (much more so in non-dub). But I can see where it's cheesy. But then you started busting on super-heroes.

Sure, new super heroes aren't great (Max Steel ::shivers:. But look at Batman. He does all the stuff, say, Superman does, without ANY Super-Power. Or how about X-Men? Neat charecters, cool bad guy, nice powers, and a good message. Spiderman, Iron Man, all of these aren't cheese.

You dismiss these because you either think that they are for little kids or just never liked them as a kid. And yes, Sailor Moon sucks. But Super-Heroes make the world go round.

Saltz

 

[Aku Necromancer]

Im sorry, but I really dislike DBZ. I mean tell me, how far can you stretch a story! it went from Dragonball, to Dragonball Z, to DragonBall GT. All of these, in my opinion are considered "bad" anime. Personally I love Akira (Tetsuo is amazing),Ninja Scroll is good, and my favorite Vampire Hunter D (Yoshitaka Amano is an Amzing artist).

 

[Bladefall]

The Star Wars RPG (the new one). I think its a great game. The chaacter creation isn't to hard. And its just an all-around fun game. At least try it...

DBZ rocks. I love it. I'm 14, but I don't care, it has a great storyline. My only complaint, is that every big fight, what are the heros doin? Waiting for Goku. To come back from the dead, from space, anywhere, it just gets old.

 

[Azreal the Soulmaster]

i must admit if they didn't edit DBZ it would be much better, but in the grand scheme of anime, its plot leaves much to be desired

 

[Chaos Turtle]

3rd Edition D&D and the d20 System in general kick ass!

Star Wars fan? Get the new game! (Though it's a bit pricey...)

On anime:

Screw that crap they show on USA or whatever...

Go for the ones mentioned in the previous post...

 

[Chaos Turtle]

Alright, I just noticed a semi-diss on Ghost In The Shell...

That movie is amazing!

The long sequence near the middle that features the music and singing... fantastic artsmanship... watch it again!

 

[K9Archmage]

1: Oooh! I wanna cast a spell
3: HEy, am i there?
2: Where?
3: In the room where he's casting all these spells.
2: NO! Your in the other room getting drunk!
3: Oh thanks.
1: I wanna cast "magic missile"
2: Why are you casting magic missile? There's nothing to attack.
1: Umm. I'm attacking the darkness
all laugh

Hoipa