I want to win States

[galtwish]

4 Ramosian Sergeant
4 Fresh Volunteers
4 Steadfast Guard
4 Llanowar Knight
4 Longbow Archers
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Sterling Grove
4 Crusade
1 Familiar Ground
2 Seal of Cleansing
4 Parallax Wave
4 Armageddon
4 Brushland
3 City of Brass
2 Elfhame Palace
13 Plains

SB
2 Wax/Wane
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Disenchant/Abolish
4 Wrath of God
4 Armadillo Cloak
3 Reverent Mantra

or

4 Seal of Fire
4 Rhystic Lightning
2 Hammer of Bogardan
1 Urza's Rage
2 Earthquake
4 Counterspell
4 Prohibit
3 Foil
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Wash Out
3 Air Elemental
13 Islands
12 Mountians

I'm looking for consistency, the ability to power through just about any situation, and massive damage dealing capability. Is anyone else going? This isn't the most competative tournament, but it can hardly be considered casual. With such a new environment, the casual deckbuilders usually find the weird decks that do pretty well. Your thoughts on the metagame are greatly appreciated.

Erik

 

[Gizmo]

WWeenie is far stronger than any counterburn deck - I think counterburn is currently at it`s lowest ever ebb, BTW. Rebels, on the other hand, have access to four of the good spells in the new T2 (more than any other single decktype), those being Sergeant, Crusade, Wave, Geddon. All are in your deck by the 4s. This is a good thing.

But WWeenie is also expected. This is a bad thing. I wonder what the Green is doing, really - are there really not better cards in Blue to ally with (Wash Out, Prohibit?). I don't think the Groves and Cloaks are worth going for, and I also think that some form of Prot would be a good idea, don`t you? SB Acolytes for certain, but also Mantra or Blessings. I also think 4 Geddon and 4 Wave is possibly overdoing it - you need to control their mana producers to make Geddon scary against all the 5c decks, but 4 Waves look like a better MD choice. I`d go to two Geddon, with the other two lurking in the SB. Possibly cloaks are worth MDing as a big surprise, but you`d have to rethink the Prot in that case.

Familiar Ground? WTF?

 

[galtwish]

I'm tempted to run the wash-out/rebels deck like this:

4 sarge
4 freshies
4 Steadfast
4 Archers
4 Gallina's Knight
4 Crusade
4 Wave
2 Wash-Out
3 Mantra
3 Disenchant
2 Geddon
4 Adakar Wastes
2 City
2 Coastal Tower (very iffy on this, as it is only good as a 1-drop)
3 Islands
11 Plains

SB
4 Obsidian Acolyte
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Story Circle
1 Light of Day
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Ivory Mask
1 Spiritual Focus
2 Geddon
1 Wash Out

I'm going Green for the Knights, Groves, Cloaks and the possibility of adding Burst. Dense Foiliage was what I meant when I typed in Familiar Ground; I screwed up my crappy Green enchantment reprints.

The thing is, Cloaked prot. creatures will rule over Black and red, much like Hacker's WW deck from 1998. Empyrial Armor + Spirit Link ruined the day for Sligh. The problem is that it is too focused on defeating creature based decks and will probably lose to Blue.

4 Obsidian Acolyte
4 Crimson Acolyte
4 Llanowar Knight
4 Fresh Volunteers
4 Longbow Archers
4 Crusade
4 Parallax Wave
4 Armadillo Cloak
3 Revenrent Mantra
2 Armageddon
4 Brushlands
4 City of Brass
1 Forest
14 Plains

SB
2 Armageddon
2 Wrath of God
2 CoP Red
3 Wax/Wane
2 Disenchant
4 Rebel Informer/3 Saproling Burst + 1 Disenchant

Erik

 

[Mars]

WTF, or HOW TF, does a proper Englishman like Gizmo get off using a crude American expression like..."WTF?"

I thought Englishmen were supposed to be polite?
Then again...

"MY Country, Right or Wrong!"
Spoken like a true Englishman. Unfortunately, I am an American and in the 60's that was not true. Oh, you lucky Canadiens, you!

"Into the Valley of Death rode the 400!"
from The Charge of the Light Brigade. 2000 Arabs vs 400 English. On Arab soil. Guess who got slaughtered? Personally, I'm hightailing my butt out of there to fight another day with more decent odds. But not if I'm English, huh?

No offense, but I'm half English. Still, I wonder about my ancestry sometimes. Guess I have a good excuse for being eccentric.

All in good jest, Gizmo. You ARE the King of Tech!
On Familiar Ground. And watch your language, you cheeky monkey.

 

[Darsh]

:Read above post:
Um...yeah. Okay..Right..:backs away slowly:

I would go with the regular rebels since they have a higher consistincy.

I don't think wash out would be much help since most post invasion decks are going to be multicolored but thats just my opinion.

 

[Mars]

I agree that most post-Invasion decks will be multi-colored, but WW will in fact still be good. And Wash Out is a problem. So, there's no perfect deck. So.

 

[galtwish]

Wash Out is one of the more powerful beatdown/anti-beatdown cards printed in the past 4 sets. Let's look at what decks may be relevant;

G creatures/R burn (Son of Hermit)
R creatures/R burn (RDWins)
B creatures/R burn (Pyre Zombie/Wumpus/Skizzik)
B creatures/U tricks (U/b Fish, Sleepers Robe)
U creatures/W/U tricks (U/w Fish/ CounterWrath)
U creatures/U tricks (Fish. DrawGo)
White control (Artifacts & Enchantments)
5cG (mainly G permanents)
Black Control (" B " )
Brawler Sligh (" R " )
WW (" W " )
and so on.

Many decks will be multicolor, but with a strong emphasis on a single color.

Blue Beatdown
4 Chimeric Idol
4 Stronghold Zeppelin
4 Troublesome Spirit
4 Air Elemental
4 Wash Out
4 Thwart
3 Foil
3 Gush
4 Opt
4 Sky Diamond
22 Island

SB
1 Rath's Edge
3 Boomerang
4 Daze
3 Mana Short
4 Misdirection

SB needs a lot of work, but I think there is opportunity in this sort of a build.

Erik

 

[galtwish]

4 Counterspell
4 Prohibit
4 Absorb
3 Thwart
3 Disenchant
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Wrath of God
2 Disrupting Scepter
2 Avatar of Will
4 Adakar Wastes
4 Coastal Tower
7 Plains
11 Islands

SB
4 Dueling Grounds/Wash Out
4 Reviving Vapors
2 Rishadan Pawnshop
3 Warmth
2 Story Circle

I see this having trouble with Fish. Additionally, I don't like Teferi's Moat, but it may well be worth exploring.

4 Elfhame Sanctuary
4 Jokulhaups
3 Scouting Trek
4 Clear the Land
3 Creeping Mold
3 Nether Spirit
4 Saproling Burst
3 Hammer of Bogardan
2 Urza's Rage
4 Dwarven Ruins
14 Mountians
12 Forest

SB
4 Boil
4 Flashfires
4 Obliterate
3 Scorching Lava (damn Spirits)

This should beat nearly all creature based decks, but I am concerned about Black's discard and counterspells (obviously). Probably not the best choice for States, but definately worth considering for later development.

Erik

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

4 Silt Crawler
4 Blastoderm
3 Skizzik
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Stone Rain
2 Rhystic Lightning
2 Urza's Rage
2 Blood Oath
1 Hammer of Bogardan
2 Chimeric Idol
2 Fire Diamond
4 Seal of Fire
3 Scorching Lava
2 Dust Bowl
2 Rishadan Port
4 City of Brass
6 Forest
9 Mountain

SB

2 Urza's Rage
2 Assault/Battery
3 Reverent Silence
2 Armageddon
2 Citadel of Pain
2 Chimeric Idol
2 Tangle Wire

I have no idea whether this will work or not.
It just seems like a good idea.

 

[Planeswalker]

Hey hey hey. Guess what? I wanna win States also. I think that the key to winning tourneys in the upcoming few months is rogue-ness. The departure of Urza Block has thrown T2 into shambles, and we are struggling to define the metagame. Like you guys said earlier, Rebel is to be expected. I think that Waters and Blastogeddon will also have to be considered serious threats. However, rogue is good. The following is a rogue deck that is based around an MBC deck.

4 Birds of Paradise
3 Vine Trellis
1 Quirion Elves
4 Blastoderm
1 Rith, the Awakener
2 Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
4 Kyren Negotiations
4 Saproling Burst
3 Natural Affinity
1 Saproling Symbiosis
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Aura Mutation
3 Seal of Cleansing
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Disenchant
1 Mana Short
5 Forest
4 Elfhame Palace
3 Shivan Oasis
3 Mountain
3 Karplusan Forest
3 Brushland
2 Dust Bowl

It does have a few holes. Armageddon sucks, but the 8 creature-sources should help out. This deck is able to switch from beatdown to control very quickly, as theh Negotiations don't have to provide the kill, just help it out. However, a Saproling Burst can do 18 damage via Negotiations, so the option is still there. Stay rogue.

Chris
Team BS

 

[galtwish]

The problem with most "new" decks coming out after Invasion is that they are Green. Perish will be played by at least 20% of the field, possible more. Here's an idea for a Green deck without green creature weaknesses:

4 Rampant Growth
4 Harrow
4 Tribal Flames
4 Urza's Rage
3 Wax/Wane
4 Assualt/Battery
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Complex Automaton
4 Derelor
2 Armageddon
2 Plains
2 Mountians
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 City of Brass
11 Forest

Lots of options, probably a little weak on the mana base, but lots of options.

Erik

 

[Baskil]

How about using Scouting Trek/Clear the land instead of Rampart Growth/Harrow?

 

[Captain Caveman]

That Green deck gave me a way to complete my Invasion Combo Deck.

Its only a _casual_ idea.

4 Trek
4 CtL
4 Tribal Flames
4 Urza's Rage( the kill, but fear Misdirection )
3 Seal of Cleansing
4 Seal of Fire
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Overabundance
2 Soul Burn
2 Collective Restraint
2 Plains
4 Mountians
2 Island
6 Swamp
11 Forest

 

[Duel]

Honestly, I see green-red speed beatdown making a comeback. With speed and spot removal, it seems like a flawless deck type.

Consider:
Nether-go: We have scorching lava. Whee!

Mageta-geddon: With all the cheap spells out there to kill mageta, and all the cheap greenmana producers, you dhould beat them BEFORE turn 6.

Rising waters: Elves. Next!

Snuff-o-derm: Skizzik, chump blockers, kavu chameleon, Removal for non-derm creatures.

White-blue control: Spot removal, Tranquility (Calming verse), kavu chameleon, chimeric idol, shatter variants (Artifact mutation, specificaly), Urza's rage.

Black-blue control: Kavu chameleon, Spot removal, blurred mongoose (Underrated card alert!), Urza's rage, Restock.

Black-blue aggro: Kavu chameleon, blurred mongoose, spontaneous generation, urza's rage

Well? Have I missed something? Try this deck on for size. Mind you, this is only a test deck:

2 Blurred Mongoose
4 Kavu chameleon
4 Blastoderm
4 Seal of shock
2 Assault/battery
4 Scorching lava (Now you nether, now you don't!)
3 Urza's rage
2 Rupture
2 Artifact mutation
3 Skizzik
4 Skyshorud ridgebacks
4 Seal of Growth
2 Invigorate

Add lands to taste, but probably not the new dual lands.

Mana curve:
1cc: Skyshroud ridgeback, Seal of growth, Seal of shock, Assault

2cc: Blurred mongoose, artifact mutation, scorching lava

3cc: Invigorate (alternate), Rupture, Rage,

4cc: Derm, Skizzik, battery

5cc: Kavu Chameleon

well?

 

[Istanbul]

Think 'Silt Crawler'.
Vs. Rising Waters, think 'Quirion Elves'.
Think 'River Boa'.
In place of Rupture, think 'Mageta the Lion'.
In place of Artifact Mutation/Skizzik, think 'Aura Shards/Charging Troll'.
In place of 'Seal of Shock', think 'Pacifism'.
In place of Assault/Battery, think 'Wax/Wane'.


[Edited by Istanbul on 10-22-00 at 06:42 PM]

 

[Duel]

Um, right, only you just made the deck twice as slow and green/white. IT'S NOT THE SAME DECK. not even the same theme.