Monoblack weenie discard

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Striking Dragon

Guest
Just looking for a little advice on a black weenie deck. Here it goes:

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
3 Ostracize
3 Reanimate

4 Hypnotic Spectre
4 Carnophage
4 Foul Imp
4 Dauthi Horror

3 Smother
3 Diabolic Edict

4 Dark Ritual

1 Volrath's Stronghold
19 Swamp

Card Choices:

Hymn/Duress = goodness.

Ostracize - In casual some creatures can be just as dangerous as those nonland noncreature cards. Chose it over distress for it's lower cost.

Reanimate - For one mana you can take any creature out of your opponents grave, especially good when you can choose the best creature in their hand.

Hypnotic Spectre - self explanitory.

Carnophage - I'm iffy on this guy, he's a 2/2 body, but he's also the only ground creature, which means he could easily get stuck doing nothing.

Foul Imp - 2/2, can trade with opposing spectres - the sole reason I'm running him over dauthi slayer.

Dauthi Horror - Shadow + can't be blocked by those pesky white critters? yes please!

Diabolic Edict - gets those untargetable critters.

Smother - 2 mana removal that's not restricted against black, yay!

Volrath's Stronghold - Gets critters back in a pinch.

Should I be running more critters? Is reanimate a viable card in this deck? Should I drop some of the removal?
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
I would drop Reanimate. Having more or less creature really depends on what direction you want to push the deck...

Anyway, your deck has no Racks. You should remedy that...
 
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Striking Dragon

Guest
Took your thoughts into consideration how about this (more discard/less beatdown centric):

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
4 Ostracize

4 The Rack (and I have a korean one!)

4 Hypnotic Spectre
4 Nezumi Shortfang
4 Dauthi Horror

3 Smother
3 Diabolic Edict

4 Dark Ritual

1 Volrath's Stronghold
19 Swamp

What does everyone think? Maybe drop the horror for some more control cards?





BTW, Oversoul were you playing the Pariah demo a few nights ago?
 
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DarthFerret

Guest
I am not sure what style you are playing, but to me, especially in a discard deck, you should have one Mind Twist, and a Demonic Tutor, if you have those cards availible to you. The mind twist is a really great way to nix a control player, and think of the options if you get a really good draw?

Turn One:

Swamp, Dark Rit, Dark Rit, Mind Twist for 5!

Or better yet (although VERY unlikely) 3 Dark Rits and twist for 7 killing thier entire opening hand.
 
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Exaulted_Leader

Guest
Unmask or Cabal Therapy make great replacements for Ostracize.

Dauthi Slayer over Dauthi Over. Always.

He's not going to be playing with crappy Soltari guys anways (and if he is, you should just laugh & roll him), and Dauthi Slayer has way cooler art (and 1 more toughness, if that matters).

...I count 58 cards total? 20 lands and 38 spells?

I would add another Edict, cut the Smothers and add 4 Unholy Strength. Given the total smashing you're going to deliver to their hand, do you really need the extra weenie destruction? Dauthi Slayer + Unholy Strength = Game Over.

Darth Ferret:

Those Mind Twist plays seem really strong, until you consider the following:

1) Double Ritual + Mind Twist is extremely unlikely, while triple Ritual into a Mind Twist is virtually impossible.

2) In the first situation, you've thrown 3 cards (and dropped a land), reducing your actual hand to 3 and netting a total card advantage of 2. (You've lost 3 cards, they've lost five). Taking virtual card advantage into consideration, you've only netted a gain of 1 (they go, get their draw step and net another card). The second, near-impossible scenario, nets you 3 actual advantage (you spent four cards, they lost 7), and 2 virtual advantage. Cabal Therapy nets you this kind of advantage consistently and isn't random.

3) Drawing a Mind Twist mid-game is about the weakest top deck you'll ever make. Pathetically terrible.

Mind Twist was really awesome when it was unrestricted and there wasn't surgical removal. Now that it has been restricted and there are better things to do, the card is way past it's prime.
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Striking Dragon said:
BTW, Oversoul were you playing the Pariah demo a few nights ago?
Click to expand...
Nope, can't say I was...

On Mind Twist...

I used to have a black discard deck that ran four. The card is such a bomb. You can use Dark Ritual to eat your opponent's hand early in the game. It can also be used to get rid of one or two cards when necessary. And it's great to draw off a Memory Jar (when your lands are untapped).

But if you only have one Mind Twist, the odds of drawing it at a point where it will really help are diminished greatly. You'll probably just topdeck it when your opponent already has an empty hand.

In Vintage, even Mana Drain decks aren't using Mind Twist as much anymore. Of course, if it were unrestricted, that would change...

Anyway, for a Vintage deck, you can use only one Mind Twist. But Vintage is also a format where cards like Mana Drain, Black Lotus, Mishra's Workshop, and Time Walk run rampant. Then in Legacy, you can't use Mind Twist at all. Well, you can use whatever amount of Mind Twists you'd like. I think that one would really just be a bit annoying, but you could get some lucky hands where it wins the game for you...
 
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Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Exaulted_Leader said:
3) Drawing a Mind Twist mid-game is about the weakest top deck you'll ever make. Pathetically terrible.
Click to expand...
I think it depends what deck you're playing against. In my current online game with DarthFerret in the Games Run forum, he cast it while I was holding 5 cards on about turn 7 or 8. I managed to cast two as instants but lost three...
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
It does depend on what you're playing against. As Darthferret pointed out, it's...

a really great way to nix a control player
Click to expand...
It's very good against aggro or combo if you can cast a large Mind Twist quickly enough. But the best matchups for a Mind Twist are control vs. control, as both parties are likely to have large hands in the mid or late game.
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Yeah, it's worth looking at all sides of the issue in question...

Also, the same doesn't go for Demonic Tutor at all. Demonic Tutor seems fine as a one-of or a four-of. Its usefulness is dependent on what else is in your deck of course. And hunting down a certain card may or may not be worth the tempo loss...

I think usually it is worth the tempo loss. Demonic Tutor has been banned/restricted for a good reason...
 
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