T
TheDevil565
Guest
Could you explain this "Societal Evolution" to us dumb people that aren't familiar with the term?
manchot posts a random sensitive topic that will create great controversy
M
Mr_Pestilence
Guest
Evolution does not require "belief", but understanding. It is a theory that is based on scientific observations. It is not infallible, and must be occasionally modified to explain observations that fall outside of what is predicted by the theory.
It is by no means complete or perfect - it is simply the theory which BEST EXPLAINS the observations made to date.
It does not strictly exclude the presence of God, but it does explain what has been observed better than the "story of creation".
Whether or not God exists and created the Earth as described in The Bible cannot be proven or disproven - both are a matter of faith.
I don't personally believe in God, and I don't think any God that would allow the atrocities we have witnessed in this century alone is worthy of being worshipped. Yes, I know ths story of Job (and if you don't, consult your local library), but I think this is just a story created by "true believers" to explain what is inconsistency in their beliefs - namely, that the "God of Love" would intentionally harm his subjects, or allow them to suffer.
If God exists and has the power to end or prevent pain and suffering, yet He does not, that seems damned sadistic to me.
[Edited by Mr_Pestilence on August 2nd, 2000 at 05:32 PM]
It is by no means complete or perfect - it is simply the theory which BEST EXPLAINS the observations made to date.
It does not strictly exclude the presence of God, but it does explain what has been observed better than the "story of creation".
Whether or not God exists and created the Earth as described in The Bible cannot be proven or disproven - both are a matter of faith.
I don't personally believe in God, and I don't think any God that would allow the atrocities we have witnessed in this century alone is worthy of being worshipped. Yes, I know ths story of Job (and if you don't, consult your local library), but I think this is just a story created by "true believers" to explain what is inconsistency in their beliefs - namely, that the "God of Love" would intentionally harm his subjects, or allow them to suffer.
If God exists and has the power to end or prevent pain and suffering, yet He does not, that seems damned sadistic to me.
[Edited by Mr_Pestilence on August 2nd, 2000 at 05:32 PM]
U
urzas_mistress
Guest
lol! i believe the two theories walk hand in hand. SOMEONE had to kickstart and monitor the process.
As a devils advocate to Mr. Pestilence, the same can be said of the Devil; presumably he has enough power to stop all good, yet he chooses not to (in other words, he allows act of good to occur).
Most likely, good cannot exist without evil and vice versa. God and the Devil know this and allows the opposite to exist, giving mankind the freewill to choose between them.
So God is not imposing his "good" on the world; rather, he leaves it to mankind to look within themselves and see if they can find it within themselves to combat it.
On a more earthly note, what kind of "atrocities" are you speaking of? The Holocaust immediately comes to mind (of course) but I want to be sure we're talking about the same things.
Most likely, good cannot exist without evil and vice versa. God and the Devil know this and allows the opposite to exist, giving mankind the freewill to choose between them.
So God is not imposing his "good" on the world; rather, he leaves it to mankind to look within themselves and see if they can find it within themselves to combat it.
On a more earthly note, what kind of "atrocities" are you speaking of? The Holocaust immediately comes to mind (of course) but I want to be sure we're talking about the same things.
M
Mr_Pestilence
Guest
We're on the same page, Spiderman. The Holocaust is one example, but what about 2 World Wars, nuclear weapons being used on civilians, the 1919 flu epidemic that killed 20 million people worldwide, AIDS, millions of people butchered in politically and religiously-based conflicts, and the recurring theme of "bad" things happening to "good" people?
I don't quite agree about the Devil. If he exists as we understand him, then he is certainly very powerful, but not omnipotent. And the only reason the Devil would allow "good" things to happen or exist is if they somehow furthered his evil objectives in the long run.
As far as free will goes, if God exists and knows everything, then He knows what choices you will make well in advance of you making them. That being the case, how can you claim that free will and God can exist simultaneously?
I don't quite agree about the Devil. If he exists as we understand him, then he is certainly very powerful, but not omnipotent. And the only reason the Devil would allow "good" things to happen or exist is if they somehow furthered his evil objectives in the long run.
As far as free will goes, if God exists and knows everything, then He knows what choices you will make well in advance of you making them. That being the case, how can you claim that free will and God can exist simultaneously?
And what makes the 20th century different from any other century? You've got the Black Plague (wasn't the 1919 flu epidemic a recurrence of this?), the Crusades, the Inquisition, wars period (in fact, according to the Bible, didn't God rather cheerfully hand over the "Promised Land" to the tribes of Israel and told them to wipe out the inhabitants), weapons period, the list goes on.
These kind of run together (and actually a bit from the first paragraph). Remember, the Bible is pretty much the source of our knowledge of "God". And the Bible was written by man, therefore leaving our knowledge of "God" suspect. Granted, some of the books may have been inspired by God but who's to say that when it got transcribed man accurately interpreted God's visions?
In other words, perhaps we don't know all about the Devil (or Evil). Certainly a book that plays up to God will diminish the Devil's role (and vice versa). You could say God thus allows "evil" things to happen and exist to further his own good objectives.
The same with free will. Do we really know God knows everything? "'Cause the Bible told me so..." (from the song).
G
garfobo
Guest
Nothing is Omnipitent, i have come to realize this, for instance, If God could create a boulder he couldnt carry. he wouldnt be omnipitent, but if he didnt, that means he couldnt make one, so there is no omnipitence, its all extreme power.
Im just giving God reasons on top of reasons to send me to Hell. Oh well, eternal torture doesnt sound that bad, does it?
Im just giving God reasons on top of reasons to send me to Hell. Oh well, eternal torture doesnt sound that bad, does it?
F
FoundationOfRancor
Guest
Last night, I had an answer to that question that made perfect sense, but i forgot it *kicks himself*
*sighes*
*sighes*
M
Mr_Pestilence
Guest
Yes, tragedies such as those I mentioned have occurred throughout history (and probably before). I just used the 20th century as an example that should be familiar to everyone.
F
Firestorm
Guest
Well of course we evolved. What do you have that organ that I cant think of the name for right now. The one that is supposed to digest plant stuff. All I can think of is asophagus right now, but im not sure if thats it. But horses have a really big one and we have one cause we used to eat a lot of plants.
Scooter your daisyheads? I think not, but you might try the fourth floor eigth door on the right.
So yes I do.
Scooter your daisyheads? I think not, but you might try the fourth floor eigth door on the right.
So yes I do.
F
FoundationOfRancor
Guest
That went over my head...
C
Chaos Turtle
Guest
Mine too.
But the "organ" he's thinking of is the appendix.
But the "organ" he's thinking of is the appendix.
T
The Magic Jackal
Guest
I do believe in Evoulution. I do not believe in religon in any way, shape, or form. I am a total rationalst. I am an athesist I'm not going to post my views and theories about relgion, and why it was created because i do not wish to offend anyone. I do think they make sense (and are entertaining at least). Why are people so afraid of dying? In perticualr, why do religous people fear death and athesist do not? I also have an opinion on that, but once again, don't want to offend anyone. If you wish to discuss it with me, I would be more than happy to (email?).
T
The Magic Jackal
Guest
BTW, I also think my theory also explains why relgion does not have as much influence today as it once did.
Mr. Pestilence: Oh, okay. It just sounded like you were saying suddenly bad stuff happened in the 20th century.
MJ: I guess we could always PM each other (my first time!) But religion has less influence now? How do you arrive at that? And religious people fear death? How do you arrive at that?
[Edited by Spiderman on August 4th, 2000 at 08:02 AM]
MJ: I guess we could always PM each other (my first time!) But religion has less influence now? How do you arrive at that? And religious people fear death? How do you arrive at that?
[Edited by Spiderman on August 4th, 2000 at 08:02 AM]
M
Multani
Guest
Strictly from a scientific view, God does not exist because there's no proof.
(In science nothing is confirmed unless there is proof, even if there's no proof denying something's existence.)
I heard recently that a lot of pastors and religious people in the United States are denying the human evolution theory.
Gee, I wonder why they would deny a theory that has a ton of evidence backing it up....
Jackal: I would love to see your views of religion. E-mail me at navigator_f22@iex.com
(In science nothing is confirmed unless there is proof, even if there's no proof denying something's existence.)
I heard recently that a lot of pastors and religious people in the United States are denying the human evolution theory.
Gee, I wonder why they would deny a theory that has a ton of evidence backing it up....
Jackal: I would love to see your views of religion.
E-mail me at navigator_f22@iex.com
T
The Magic Jackal
Guest
I'll try to email you both about it soon. If i don't just email me a reminder. (I get sidetracked a lot)
Z
Zadok001
Guest
Multani:
Strictly from a scientific point of view, you do not exist, because there is no proof. Go ahead. Try to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you exist. No assumptions, start from scratch. Remember, all senses can be deceived, so nothing you sense is nessesarily factual.
So, if you can't prove you exist... Do you? The same argument can apply to anything, from God, to Earth, to me. Nothing can be proven, if you start without assumption.
Here's a theory I've been entertaining for a while now. Our universe lasts one instant. Every particle floats randomly around. Every instant, there is a different 'universe' created, and every instant the previous one is eradicated. All your memories are, in fact, random particles of energy in your randomly created brain which randomly assign you things you consider a lifetime of memories. None of that happened, because those memories are just random patterns of particles. In an instant, those particles will assume a new form and a new 'universe' will be created instead of this one.
Depressing, isn't it?
(I know I didn't explain that very well, physical and temporal paradoxes are best discussed in person. If you _really_ didn't get it, go ahead an email me. I'll _try_ to explain it... )
"Darkness follows shadows, and shadows follow me. Light hangs before my brow, and all that is shall be."
Strictly from a scientific point of view, you do not exist, because there is no proof. Go ahead. Try to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you exist. No assumptions, start from scratch. Remember, all senses can be deceived, so nothing you sense is nessesarily factual.
So, if you can't prove you exist... Do you? The same argument can apply to anything, from God, to Earth, to me. Nothing can be proven, if you start without assumption.
Here's a theory I've been entertaining for a while now. Our universe lasts one instant. Every particle floats randomly around. Every instant, there is a different 'universe' created, and every instant the previous one is eradicated. All your memories are, in fact, random particles of energy in your randomly created brain which randomly assign you things you consider a lifetime of memories. None of that happened, because those memories are just random patterns of particles. In an instant, those particles will assume a new form and a new 'universe' will be created instead of this one.
Depressing, isn't it?
(I know I didn't explain that very well, physical and temporal paradoxes are best discussed in person. If you _really_ didn't get it, go ahead an email me. I'll _try_ to explain it...
)"Darkness follows shadows, and shadows follow me. Light hangs before my brow, and all that is shall be."
A
Almindhra
Guest
I have a friend who does not believe in the evolutionist theory at all...And when we were going through high school she never accepted it in science class
M
manchot_13
Guest
I'm amazed how many responces this post has gotten.
Aldmirra: all but one of my friends don't believe in evolution at all... it's sick... mississippi is sick... but i'll abandon that train of thought for the moment in favor of a happier thought:
what do you suppose takklemaggots evolved from?
Aldmirra: all but one of my friends don't believe in evolution at all... it's sick... mississippi is sick... but i'll abandon that train of thought for the moment in favor of a happier thought:
what do you suppose takklemaggots evolved from?